For those FWS's who have gotten past the withdrawal stage, how did you "turn off" your thoughts about the OP? Although they're usually not pleasant thoughts, I can't seem to stop thinking about the OM and how I got into this ugly mess in the first place ... IT'S KILLING ME !!! It just seems like everything is a trigger. I just want to get past this and NOT think about the OM nor the A and just work on my M. In fact, what happens now is that something will trigger a memory, I'll start thinking about the OM, I then get really mad and worked up (b/c I can't believe I got into an A with HIM and wasted all this time, money and energy when I should've been working things out with my H), which makes me think about the SOB even more. (Can you tell I'm getting REALLY frustrated now?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />)

Because I was in the A so deep and for so long that everything in my life seems ugly and tainted. For example, my H & my all-time favorite recreational activity is vacationing. Unfortunately, I went on several trips w/ the OM over the past year that it makes me sick just thinking about going back to any of those places again. In fact, nearly everything that’s rated highly on our mutual Recreational Enjoyment Inventory (which, unfortunately, is somewhat limited) I’ve done w/ the OM at some point. In fact, that was the initial attraction b/c the OM was fun, very outgoing, and we had A LOT of common interests. Now I feel like I can’t re-visit those wonderful places or do these wonderful things with my H without feeling sick and “dirty” about it. BTW – I tried simply replacing those memories by doing some of the same things w/ my H. Well, they’ve back-fired. I'd just end up sad and disgusted without being able to tell my H why.

How can I stop this vicious cycle?? It's starting to weigh on me and impeding the progress my H and I are making. Is this withdrawal?? It doesn't make any sense considering withdrawals are usually associated with the euphoric fantasies about the addiction and the longing for the addiction, right? What happens when a FWS doesn't long for the OP but just can't get over the horrible fact that she was involved in an A?

Per Suzet & Ark’s recommendation, I've kept myself very busy, I’d call friends or family when I get triggered, but it'll happen when I least expect it - like when I'm driving to the grocery store or to a fun outing. Usually, I'll get all worked up and upset that, by the time I'm there, I'm down and emotionally spent. Over the past couple of days, I'm starting to get really depressed b/c I feel like I can't overcome this.

And, here’s the biggest kicker … As some of you know, my H and I have had SF problems for several years – both due to my H’s porn addiction/self-esteem issues and, more recently, due to my A. Well, everyone, including our MC, suggested that in order for us to get over this barrier, we need to “just do it.” Well, we tried. Unfortunately, we were both very nervous, so it was awkward and uncomfortable. To make matters worse, I momentarily thought about the OM and how things were never awkward in that dept. By the time I got the horrible thought out of my head, I felt so disgusted with myself that I froze, became distraught and couldn’t continue. Because I couldn’t bring myself to tell my H that I was thinking about another man, he thought I withdrew because of his lack of performance, so he, too, became frustrated, (using his words) “un-manly” and eventually gave up.

I don’t know what to do!!! Please help!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

"Well, they’ve back-fired. I'd just end up sad and disgusted without being able to tell my H why."

"Because I couldn’t bring myself to tell my H that I was thinking about another man, he thought I withdrew because of his lack of performance, so he, too, became frustrated, (using his words) “un-manly” and eventually gave up.

I don’t know what to do!!! Please help!!!!!!"


I think maybe you do know what to do but you are dancing around it.

Tell these things to your H! Learn how to communicate your true feelings to him. Rely on him for the support you need at the moment you need it. It may be uncomfortable for both of you at first. But it will eventually end all this ambiguity.

I wish W would open up about these very things with me. It's emotional and intellectual intimacy we haven’t had since she met dirt bag.

You just started NC on 5/25/05. That is less than a month. All of this is still very fresh. It is going to be there and be sad and hurt for a while. sorry.... You did not get in this position quickly, so it is not going to go away quickly either.


It does get better with time. As you spend more time with your husband doing things together you will be making new memories. The old ones will begin to fade.

There are certain places or areas of town that are reminders for me, but they do not hurt anymore.

Look for new things to do that you enjoy. Just don't give up and decide to sit around the house and mope and do nothing.

The sex can and does get better with time too. For a while I'd cry during sex. Some turn on huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I didn't feel much of anything during sex...I was just doing it. As my counselor pointed out, those are the first feelings to go and the last to come back. So don't focus on that too much. Just like everything else, that gets easier with time too.

UNLESS...if there are problems that both of you need to be addressing relationship wise...seek professional help. Some things cannot be maneuvered on our own.

Susan

P.S. It is not any fun, but believe me, it will not KILL you. I would have been dead long ago. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You said, "What happens when a FWS doesn't long for the OP but just can't get over the horrible fact that she was involved in an A?" You never get over it, but you do learn to live with it.

You have to learn from your error. What caused the A? What did that tell you about you? Have you learned more about yourself? Do you understand more about your needs?

If you have learned more about yourself, then you can tell yourself, "Ouch, that hurt. But, at least something positive came from it."

You can't do anything about the triggers. They just happen. What you can do is not dwell on them. You see something and it makes you feel bad, try thinking: "I f*cked up. I feel bad," and then move on to another topic as soon as possible.

Thoughts can pop up during sex. Again, don't dwell on them. Accept the thoughts for what they are and move on.

Are you going to IC? Simply telling someone else and having them say, "So? You are a human."

If there are "triggers" that you can get rid of, then get rid of them. If something reminds you of OM, toss it no matter how much you like it.

Aphelion,

I'm so glad you (a BH) responded! Would you really want to hear these things from your W? Our MB tells me that some of these things are better left to be worked out during therapy lest we open more wounds. The men in my group therapy tell me that they wouldn't want to hear it. That these issues are more damaging than good. They say that if they want to hear about it, they'll ask, but don't volunteer. I guess I try to put myself in my H's shoes, and I really don't think I want to hear that my W is thinking about some "dirt bag" (whom she slept with) while we're making love. Would you? How would you respond if your W did tell you these things? Note: My H had some very serious self-esteem issues well before my A which makes me that much more uncomfortable in bringing these things up. Any thoughts? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Whisper, creating new memories with your H will eventually help to erase those things you did with OM. Time...

Susan - I know I'm rushing things. I just want to get better ASAP. I'm so ready to do anything to make things better that it's almost self-defeating and VERY, VERY frustrating!

"For a while I'd cry during sex."

I cried too and felt so guilty about it b/c I'm making the experience that much more horrible for my H.

"Just like everything else, that gets easier with time too."

I hate to ask this, but did this come back for you? I remember WAY back when my H and I first met, we had GREAT SF. Can that really come back??

Thanks so much for the encouragement and optimism.

If all of the issues are dealt with
and all of the resentments are communicated and discussed
If you are able to acknowledge and feel each other's pain
and both of you are giving your best effort at recovery

Then yes, it CAN come back and even better.

There is a certain sweetness to sex with a partner that you know is committed to you and determined...through all the good and bad no matter what....and it is even better than that passion you feel when first married.

I'm just sayin . . . <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Faithful follower is right...

Images of OW do pop up when I have sex with my W. I can't control them, they just do. I don't "use" them erotically, and I don't dwell on them. But, I can no more stop them than I can stop the wind from blowing.

When they do pop up, I try to get "more into the moment". That is, there are certain specific things I love sexually about my W, and I replace thoughts of OW with those things.

Your problem, Whisper, is that you don't have any sexy, kinky and sultry images of you with your H to push out the thoughts of OM. So, your assignment is to create them.

There are attributes of your H that are better than those of OM. He is better at some aspects of love making than OM. Find those, dwell on those.

(I hate to be graphic, but this might be helpful: My W has a fantastic, beautiful a**. If I have problems staying "on topic", I go straight there with my hands, eyes and mind.)

Making love to your spouse when you both are in a spirit fun and love is about as good as life gets.

JM - "You have to learn from your error. What caused the A? What did that tell you about you? Have you learned more about yourself? Do you understand more about your needs?"

>Believe me, the answers to these questions are all written in detail on the front/back of a piece of paper. I also have a long list of all the horrible memories I have of the A too. I carry both with me EVERYWHERE I go.

"You see something and it makes you feel bad, try thinking: "I f*cked up. I feel bad," and then move on to another topic as soon as possible."

>I'll give this a shot. Haven't been able to train my brain to replace my thoughts very well. Maybe I have a bad brain. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

"Are you going to IC?"

>Yes, she's helping me tremendously. Just not fast enough.

"If there are "triggers" that you can get rid of, then get rid of them."

Tossed EVERYTHING out (including jewelry, teddy bears, etc -somewhere in St. Louis there's a sanitation guy's girlfriend that's very happy). But, it's not the 'stuff' that are the triggers. It's the random occurrences, songs, thoughts ... esp. when something doesn't go quite right with my H and me. Yuck, yuck. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

i got over A1 and forgave only to get blindsided a year later with A2....never had the chance to get over it, it was over

Whisper:

Here (at least to me) is where your confusing the issue.

Would I want to Hear about Every single instance you EVER thought about the OM.
No, NOT unless I asked.

However, if it was something that we were having an issue with (as you are with SF) ...and the "thoughts" of the OM are what are partly making you "freeze up" ....well in situations like that , YES I'd want to KNOW the Real Reason.

His Being in the dark here is NOT Helping the situation.
Your going it alone is NOT Helping the situation.

IMO its NOT Helping in the least to be leaving your H with a total "false impression" of what is Really going on in your head (because as even as YOU described he's taking all this guilt / shame upon himself).

That's NOT healthy for anyone involved!

He's NOT to blame for why your not responding ....yet your letting him "think" that he is.
I call that retarding your progress and totally against what you state your attempting to accomplish here.

If the thoughts of the OM are causing problems in your M CURRENTLY, then they need to be aired and discussed.
Will it make your H feel good to learn this.
NOPE!
But he's already feeling pretty rotten (yet feeling rotten for about a lie). [yes, to me giving someone an intentional Wrong Impression is akin to lying]

This is one of many instances where being Honest can ONLY be a benefit to you.

You've got to start being open and honest at some point in your relationship.
Perhaps you can start now with this issue?
At least Think about it.

whisper,

Had my wife been honest about her feelings, I believe I wouldn't be heading so quickly to a divorce. Yes it would have been unpleasant, but it also would have shown how much she carried and valued our friendship and marriage.

I knew she was going through withdraw, I tried to talk ro her about it. She got angry and blamed me for her thinking about him.

Since she never addressed these feelings, she ended up seeing him again. And now we're heading for a divorce.

Trust your spouse, that's one of if not the most important thing you can do now.

GTO

JM/FF -

We are trying to create new memories. It's just so hard when the fun, new things we do are tainted with ugly memories of the A.

JM: "you don't have any sexy, kinky and sultry images of you with your H"

>Actually, I do. They're just really, really old (back in college). Guess it's time to make new ones. Funny you should mention it as my H's @ss is perhaps his best feature too. ha! But, I don't think women and men respond similarly when it comes to SF. At least for me, it's more emotional versus sexual/mental/visual. I know that's one of the main reasons I couldn't get off of the A-wagon for the longest time - I was emotionally trapped by the PA.

BTW - I don't think of the OM erotically either. What gets me is the thought that I was w/ another man, and it just makes me feel very unclean - esp. thinking I'm contaminating my wonderful H w/ my dirt. Very disgusting thought, isn't it?

Top Rope/GTO - you may be onto something here. I will make a point to gently bring up my SF problem w/ my H and see how we can resolve it together. Obviously, I've been trying to 'protect' my H from my ugly past so that he doesn't get hurt beyond what he's had to endure already. My question is - where do you draw the line? Meaning, when should I tell what I'm feeling/thinking and when should I withhold?

"Will it make your H feel good to learn this. NOPE! But he's already feeling pretty rotten"

>Will bringing these things up not just completely destroy my H's already-depleted self-esteem? It's one thing when someone's feeling rotten about something. It's a whole other story when very low self esteem is at stake. Any thoughts?

Whisper,

TR and others said it better than I did. It is not what you are thinking that hurts your H. It’s what he’s left with feeling.

Feelings are neither right nor wrong. They just are. (As a BS I hated that platitude for the longest time. Now I believe it, totally.)

It’s how you appeal to your H for help working through these feelings. And it’s how you help him through his feelings too.

An example, months after D-Day 2, before W moved home, she said she couldn’t have SF with me. Dirt bag was so much better and she felt like she was being raped for years when we had SF. (One of the reasons it was so few and far between, I know now.)

That hurt like hell. But, I was relieved to hear it. I knew the truth at least, and now I could make my own decisions and they would mean something.

That’s a lot better than just feeling rejected. Now I knew why I was rejected. Maybe this does not make sense the way I explain it. But it released a huge build-up of resentment in me.

What do you want to hear from H? How would you want him to present it? Turn it around and do it that way. He is still there. He must still choose to love you. I suspect he wants to help you as much as he wants help for himself. And he wants you to be the one who helps him.

I agree, professional MC and IC is necessary. But you have to learn to communicate these difficult and potentially explosive issues 24/7. They don’t only happen in the MC’s office.

W and I learned techniques for this in Retrouvaille. It takes lots of practice and a real desire to help each other. I’m getting pretty good at it, I think. I wish W would try it more.

I'm having dinner with my H on Wednesday night. I'll be sure to bring this up. I agree. I don't want this to fester like it did before the A. We all know what happened. I thought I was being kind by not mentioning these hurtful things. Guess I was wrong. I've been wrong on just about everything, so this is good learning for me.

"It’s how you appeal to your H for help working through these feelings. And it’s how you help him through his feelings too."

Any idea on how I should approach it?