Tnt and Rutger - I posted to you on the other thread.<P>OK, guys, he just left and I was NOT wonderful. Maybe it's the flu or the hopelessness I've felt all week or the fact that he kept bringing up bad subjects, but I could not get myself under control. He walked in and asked if I wanted to take a ride. I said ok and off we went, just riding around the countryside. I gave him two letters, one I had written a couple of days ago about the problems with d - he needed to know and the other one. He wanted to read them right then. So, we got back and he wanted more details on d and her problems. As I talked, tears ran down my face. I didn't SAY anything wrong, I just couldn't stop them. Got myself under control again. Then he says "If I stay here overnight but don't sleep with you, will it make the waiting period for divorce longer?" It doesn't here so I said no. He says "I can't be married anymore, you do know that. I'm not filing for divorce right away, I'm not in any hurry, and it'll be at least 6 months, but I'm not coming back to you. I'm never gonna marry anyone else - I'm not meant to be married. I'm not a good responsible man anymore." I hadn't asked. So, here come the tears again. Got myself under control again. Then he asked about money and the bills and if I was gonna be able to afford Christmas for d. OK, you know the drill by now - I'm going bankrupt and can't buy food, much less think about Christmas. Tears again. I'm still not SAYING anything wrong, I just keep crying. He noticed that I still wear my wedding rings. I said I didn't plan to take them off - no matter what. I loved him and believed in him and was still married to him so I wear my rings. He said softly "thank you, Lori". I cried AGAIN. OK under control again. He started talking about my dad, how much I must miss him, especially now. That did it - this wasn't just tears rolling down my face, but out and out UGLY cry, not sobbing, just ugly cry. Got myself under control AGAIN. I walked him to the door so he could go to the shed and get some tools and bury the dead cat in the driveway for us and he hugged me, a nice long hug, rubbing my back, my sides, my head. I lost it then. Yep, crying like crazy. I was shaking all over and he could tell, so he just held me tighter and I just kept shaking. God, I hate myself sometimes. He went out, I went to wake up d. She came downstairs and he came back in. She was a little rude - still hurt because he didn't keep his promises to her from last visit. He said he needed a haircut - and we ALL agreed, so I said I'd give him one. He kept trying to talk to d while I kept teasing him about going bald. That part was pretty light, anyway. He smiled a couple of times. So did I. Then he said he had to go. D said "I think I'm gonna throw up", so he sat down beside her and I got a cloth for her head and something for her to drink. He talked w/ her awhile and then got up to leave. I walked him out. He hugged me on the deck and promised to come by to see her, help w/ the house and yard (since the storm it's outta control). While he was hugging me, he said "I'm so sorry, Lori". I said "I love you." AND........ all together now....... I cried!<P>He was so upset. "I've destroyed you guys, I can't believe I've destroyed you guys. I'm such a s**t." I have NEVER cried when he was here before - he may never come back. Oh, and I'm not done YET!!! I came in when he left and d was in the kitchen, watching him drive away out the window - crying. Then she started throwing up. Took care of her and got a wild hair. I knew he was going to check on the Volvo repairs, so I called John's house and asked to speak to him. I told him about d and asked him to give her a call tonight or this afternoon. I almost thought he was crying - and, of course, you KNOW what I was doing. He promised he would. I apologized for calling and he told me, very nicely actually, it was ok, he needed to know and it was all his fault anyway, not mine. I hung up and - ONE LAST TIME NOW - I cried.<P>Ok, so much for my nearly perfect plan a-ing. Showing I'm independent and capable. confident and cool. Today I was a basket case. Sick and watery. Only one tiny almost lovebuster, not really enough to worry about - until you add all the blubbering. I wouldn't want to come back if I were him.<P>I don't know what to think. I feel like I'm in shock or something. Just wish I had a big hole to crawl into. Sorry, guys, I did my best. I guess I just wasn't strong enough this time. He was emphatic that this marriage is over, even tho I didn't ask. His keychain is a picture of him and Sweetie. And yes, when I saw it - I cried!<P>Lori<P><P>------------------<BR>-Lori

You didn't blow it, Lori. You did good. You can't take responsibility for your tears. It is okay. Just don't lovebust, and keep telling him how much you love him. You are doing okay. Your main focus needs to be your daughter, I feel so bad for her.<P>I remember when I met my husband, my daughter was 10. Before we were married she started calling him "Dad". It really made his kids mad, but he told her it was okay, and to continue to call him "dad". She still calls him dad. She is coming over tomorrow (she is somewhat of a tomboy) and I'm going to babysit the grandson, and her and "dad" are going to work on remodaling our house. <P>When my husband left us in 96, it hurt her worse than I realized. She's just finally beginning to help him realize how he let her down too, not just me. Although they are not natural (bio) father/daughter, something does happen and they learn to love this person like crazy.<P>Your daughter might need some real help right now, maybe you could share some of the information with her to help her understand what he is doing. I would be VERY careful, though, and explain to her that he does love her, but that he isn't thinking rational. I'm sure she would agree, and it is very very important that she realize it isn't her fault. <P>Maybe together you can sit with your daughter and just lift your husband up to God. And ask for God to heal you both. He will.<P>God Bless you.<BR>TNT

Thanks, TnT. I can't BELIEVE this. When I finally got me and d calmed down, I called MIL. She had asked me to call her if he came and let her know how he was. And YES, HE answered the phone. Oh, I'm glad you're there. Just tell your mom for me I called to wish her a good trip this week. OK, I'll tell her. AND HERE I GO AGAIN. What on earth is WRONG with me? I don't know what to do. He stayed about 3 hours or so today, trying to give me advice on the house, getting me to move, pushing me to make a million decisions. I finally asked him not to push so hard. I had plenty of my plate dealing with all the changes and I was taking care of things - one at a time. He even asked, what do you have to deal with? Clueless. I just looked at him. And cried. Oh, I don't believe this. I am outta control now. Thanks for the support. I need it right now.<P>Lori

I know that feeling! Despair! <P>Lostva, you must get some kind of control. Take your daughter on a drive, or walk through the shopping mall.<P>e-mail me, because I have some thoughts that might help. It's spiritual warfare, if you are up to it.<P>God Bless you.<BR>mncon99@yahoo.com<BR>TNT

Lori<BR>TNT is right! You didn't blow anything.<BR>Cry all you want to. Sometimes your body and soul need that. Maybe it's good that he saw it. Sometimes if you don't cry they don't think you care.<BR>Now I see some good things here. First of all he isn't justifying. He feels crappy about himself and he shared that with you. He shared his feelings with you - honestly.<BR>Reminds me of my H in January. He couldn't forgive himself, lost his integrity and couldn't imagine me EVER being able to forgive him.<BR>I may be way off base here but do you think he may be crying out for help? I think you did very well. Tears are human. You let him know that you love him and are there for him.<BR>I know you feel like crap right now but YOU DID GOOD. You didn't blow it!!!!

Thanks, you guys. A lot.<P>TnT - I really thought I had gotten myself under control - for a while anyway. Too many things to deal with, I guess. I've been looking for a new job, but the pay is MUCH less than I'm making and i can't make it now. Mine may end at any time. I e-mailed you. I'll take spiritual warfare - heck, I'll take anything right now to keep from feeling so blessed worthless! I even cried in front of my d - I have never done that in my life, but a little while ago, just sitting watching TV w/ her, I lost it. I can't believe it. I am ALWAYS strong for her. <P>WS - I don't know if I blew it or not. All the other visits he kept asking if I was OK. Didn't have to this time. He did a little justifying. In between he'd say something about how he tried so hard, gave me lots of chances, but it didn't matter. And he was basically a good person, but he must not meant to be married because he screws up about every 6 years. Not sure what that meant. I did give him the letter and he read it. Maybe, if he ever needs it, he'll keep it and read it again. Or he may just throw it away. I don't know. he's still not himself at all. Didn't look good at all. I have GOT to stop this.

Lori<BR>Everything you say reminds me of womething we went through.<BR>If he doesn't look good he is suffering from guilt most likely. My H was affected physically by the guilt. He wouldn't admit to it at the time but you should hear him now!<BR>Can you think about how you can help him feel better about himself? I know you've probably done this but I think he may need it now more than ever. <BR>Just my opinion but I think you may have done more good than you realize by being honestly open with your emotions.<BR>It really sounds like your H is taking some responsibility for his actions and that is a good thing.<BR>You didn't blow it. We are supposed to be learning to be honest with each other and it sounds like both of you did some of that.<BR>You don't have to be strong all the time. It isn't good for you. <BR>

WS - Good to hear from you again. Ya know, I thought about the same thing during a moment of sanity - brief, but sanity, none the less. MIL has told me several times that he felt d and I were better off without him than when he was here. I've ALWAYS (since I was a kid) felt the "need" to be the strong one. My brother almost lost it when he saw the shape I was in when H left. H's had a headache since June 28 - no lie. Wakes him up at night, nothing touches it. Still can't sleep. Had some kind of virus since early August - caught it right after he left. First seizure in 20 years or more last Friday. He made an appointment w/ the dr for this Tues. Maybe it IS guilt. He still talks about "old times" and I wonder if we were at the same place; his memories are so distorted. I've been sending him things w/ his letters: the "someone" thread from here, the thing about the $20 bill. All sorts of things to remind him that he is worthwhile and he is loved. He told his mom he shows them to Sweetie and she gets mad!!! AUUUUHHHHH - too bad. Maybe I should do more. I'll give it some thought.<P>OK - update. MIL called. He went by there. She asked straight up if Sweetie was preggo. He said that she says she's not, but if she is, it isn't his. He says he just asked her about his having a baby because he's been thinking about it a lot lately (actually said the same thing to me before he left - made me mad - he's the one who DIDN'T want a baby when I DID!) She didn't give me the whole story - had company and had to go, will call back later tonight. He SHOWED her my LETTER! Mom, you've got to read this. This is so cool. Said he had to get d and I over to the city that they all live in. THEN, she had to go. Her last words - "He's thinking Lori, and it's NOT about that b****. But he's thinking and it's driving him crazy." Maybe that's the first step.<P>Thanks for being there on one of my worst days yet. I still think this fever is NOT helping my state of mind.

Lori<BR>I am tingling for you. I see so many good things here that you are not seeing because of where you are.<BR>Now we will not jump to conclusions and get overjoyed. But you are doing the right things. Keep doing them. Perseverance is the key. Do not give up hope. Let yourself be human. This is not an easy war but I think you are winning small battles.<BR>My H was physically ill during his affair. I knew it was hurting him. That was why I forced discovery. He was always having stomach pains, constant cold sores. It got to the point where if he got a cold sore I knew he was lying about something. We joke now if he has indigestion that he must be lying about something.<BR>Remember girl that it wasn't that long ago that I was going through this. Very fresh in my memory!!!!!<BR>Little battles won win the war. You are doing great!!!!!!!!!<BR>Don't take the setbacks to heart okay?<BR>I gave my H a letter in Jan. The next day he got drunk and disappeared. I knew where he was but I told everyone he was missing in action. A friend phoned to see if I knew what was going on. This is when it became public. He told me that he read the letter and thought he had everything figured out.....<BR>I said "Until you saw her right?" <BR>Response "Yes"<BR>That was the beginning of the end. It took another month and a half but It was the beginning of the end!!!!!<BR>Hang in there Lori. We are all here for you. I did't start posting here until a month after the affair was over. Gosh I wish I hadn't done it alone!!!!

WS - I don't know how you did it alone. Although, I didn't start w/ the forum until he was ready to leave, so I had a few weeks on my own. I'm glad you're seeing good signs - all I see are negatives. He was so adamant about NEVER coming back. I don't know. Maybe I'm just tired. Or scared. Too scared to see the good stuff. Another weird thing - bits and pieces come popping in my feeble little mind. He said, when he asked about spending the night, that he knew people going through a "friendly" separation and divorce that were still actually living together as roommates. He thought it was pretty cool, especially for the kids. I don't wanna get my hopes up, but I can't keep fighting the good fight unless i see something good in all of this. Tell me something. Although I should know, but I've heard more stories of struggles like mine than successes, I'm afraid. Do they ALWAYS sound so sure that what they're doing is right and permanent? Positive that they're never coming back, that you were never really the one for them? I mean, I know a lot of spouses say these things, but do some of the ones that say them actually come back?<P>Just wondering. This is getting me through, you know. My chance to finally just talk and talk. Thank you so much.<P>------------------<BR>-Lori

Lori<BR>They are all different. You are seeing negatives because you are tired. You know I've been there. It is scary to see positives. <BR>Talk and talk and talk all you want.<BR>My H was never positive about anything except for the fact that he had lost his integrity and he was absolutely sure that I couldn't ever forgive him or love him again.<BR>I think the only reason that I kept at it was because I was a little insane. So that is not necessarily a bad thing.<BR>The only thing that he can be sure of during his insanity is that he didn't think I loved him. He suspected my motives for my actions. I had to prove that I loved him.<BR>Dumb huh? I had to prove that I loved him.<BR>Just the way it went. I did it. You can do it. Maybe that's what he needs. It's worth a shot. You are doing great girl. One way or another you are going to win this battle. You know when you come out of it that you are a good person and you have done everything for the right reasons. Be proud of yourself!!!!!<p>[This message has been edited by wasstubborn (edited September 25, 1999).]

Oh, my stars, guess who just called. NOT MIL, but H himself. Since he left us (8/5), he has never EVER called except to say he might be coming over. "I just bought some chicken strips, how should I cook them?" So we discussed the chicken strip options and then he talked about his job today, his mom's new furniture, making tea, the repairs on the car,just about everything he's done since he left this afternoon. Talked for 15-20 minutes I guess. He was funny, like he used to be all the time. Got a beep, he says, hold on a sec - NOT I got to go. Came back, talked some more. Asked to speak to d to tell her Hi, too. Said he was gonna call his mom again tonight to wish her a happy trip. My poor pitiful brain cannot take this. Why on earth would he call? I know, to find out how to cook chicken, right? And where the heck was Sweetie - she doesn't LET him call here, even to talk to d. I feel like a noodle. An overcooked noodle. How weird is this now?<P>Lori

Lori<BR>Don't ask why. Just enjoy the positives. Are you starting to see them? They won't all be positives but you have to see them when they happen!!!!<BR>Be slow, be careful but enjoy talking with your H and let him know you enjoy it!!!!!!

Lori,<BR>man did I miss alot of stuff.... Sorry I wasn't here earlier. Lori you did not blow anything. You showed your H true emotion. Nothing wrong with that. Sound pretty straight up to me. Now to prove my point he is calling you to ask about cooking chicken.....? I don't think so .. He is just using that as an excuse to talk to you. Good for you. I think today is a MAJOR win.<P> Feel good about it and yourself. Now the only thing I would be careful of is don't push him in any direction... Your on a good note here so let him think about that for a little while.... <P>Hope you have a good night and remember my thought are with you....<P><P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P>

Lori-<BR>I feel like i'm intruding, but you know me-LOL<BR>I have to agree whole-heartedly with WS. The things that you are experiencing today ARE GOOD THINGS. I see more hope in what has happened today, than ever!!!<BR>He is calling you about his chicken, because HE NEEDS YOU. You cut his hair today. He took you for a drive. He said he would call tonight and he DID. <BR>You are tired and not feeling well. Lori, if I was getting half the signs you are from Doug, I would be in seventh heaven.<BR>Listen to what we are saying, Lori. These are GOOD things. It sounds to me like sweetie has about run her course.<BR>Just tread lightly. He still needs time to figure this out, but I do think he is on the right path.<BR>Keep your faith. Pray and pray and pray. The Lord is giving you signs. Listen to them.<P>Love,<BR>Cheryl

I'm still here. Looks like a forum night to me.<P>WS - I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Actually, I'm sitting here w/ a glass of Merlot (for medicinal purposes you know!) with tears running down my face. What a crybaby I am today. OK, hold on to some of this as positives. Keep doing what I'm doing, Oh, I forgot a deep breath, calm down. I may just get through this night, thanks to you guys.<P>Rutger - How're you doing. 'Course you know I'm ready to move him back in - wait a minute, except for a few clothes, he IS still here - his stuff anyway. If it gets cold, he's in real trouble. Didn't take anything with him today either. I'm glad you guys think this is a good thing. I was so upset about all the crying, I'd tried so hard to NEVER cry in front of him, that I couldn't figure anything out. <P>Cheryl - butt in, darlin', butt in! Chicken - do you believe that - how to fix the damned chicken. But it's the FIRST phone call to talk. Oh, I forgot to say earlier, he told me today to call him anytime. I said I wasn't going to call him there unless it was an emergency. He said, I understand. Look, if you need me, just call and let it ring once. I'll see the # on the caller ID and call you back, you don't even need to leave a message. When I called him 'cause d screwed up ROYALLY, he got angry. You're right, I AM tired and I feel like crap. STILL got a fever and can't talk. <P>OK, so now I'm not crying anymore tonight. But of course, I'm so antsy I'm standing up while typing. Thank you guys so much for not giving up on me today. I don't know what I would have done. So, now I have to figure out how to proceed. I guess, continue with my wonderful (sans crying) Plan A-ing. I'll never make it. I know, I know, you eat an elephant one bite at a time.<P>Lori

Lori, Lori, Lori, Letting him know just how hurt you are without love busting was great!!!! Letting him know that you still love him and letting him see your emotion is not being weak it's being human. remember me 3 weeks ago/ I totaly lost it with my H remember. I cried and told him just how hurt I was. 5 days later he was begging to come home. We went to trade off his pickup today for a car for me. He is going to drive my truck now. Anyway, a few days ago when we were talking he said that if I really wanted to know how he feels I should listen to the new John Micheal Montgomery song "I get to come home to you" I had never heard it before so I didn't think to much about it until we were driving today and the song came on the radio. We had Heather with us so all he did was tap my hand. The song is beautiful! I shed a few tears touched his hand and said thankyou. He said that he feels everything that is in that song. It has touched me so much. So see Lori there is still hope and letting out some of those feelings is good. Hang on! It's along ways from over.<P>Love,<P>Jill

Oh, Crazy, I'm glad you're here. And glad you had a nice day. I just knew things were gonna be good for you guys. Oh, I know, there are some long roads ahead, but you guys are doing so good. <P>What a day I've had. I guess you read, huh? wish me luck, wish me strength. And keep praying for us, too, ok? <P>Lori