hello all, its been a very very long since posting and i do recognize a few names.

the A seems such a long time ago but lately some things feel as if our marriage is pre-A. the difference is i am giving affection even though it may not be what W might have in mind but is definitely ALOT more than pre-affair.

I read the controlling husband letter #1 and i thought W could have wrote it, only difference would have been her pathological lying.

I went to a counseling session yesterday and we spoke about the controlling behavior and he feels that W's actions in the past have made me even more controlling. The bottom line for the feel of wanting to control is the deep feeling of fear towards W because she is the only one that has the ability and power to deeply hurt me.

Counselor states that i have no control over the fact if she is going to have another A or have inappropriate relationships. I cant worry or "control" her actions. That she will do it without me being controlling or not.

I am so up in the air about not "worrying" about what W is doing, but then again... how can someone care about someone else even though they arent suppose to worry about what they are doing? or have knowledge of what they are doing?

granted, this was an initial session with the counselor, and we will have a full blown session come friday..... he also stated i have to work on alcoholism. he said i have taken care of the alcohol part, but that i need to work on the "ism". i have been sober over 3 1/2 years now without any outside influence or meetings, no AA or anything. he made the statement.... "a cucumber turns into a pickel but a pickle can never go back to being a cucumber"

i guess i am in a quandry right now, so i thought i would venture back to the place that helped me so much so long ago. any thoughts that may come to mind i would definitely appreciate

Welcome back, Wrestling!

"I am so up in the air about not "worrying" about what W is doing, but then again... how can someone care about someone else even though they arent suppose to worry about what they are doing? or have knowledge of what they are doing?"

>I'm assuming you've read the section on Infidelity on this website? I've read it 20+ times (including every link on every page). The one thing that Harley mentions repeatedly is that we should never be comfortable in our relationships. The minute that we become comfortable and laxed, we stop meeting those important EN of our S's, and we all know what happens there.

Since there is history of A w/ your FWW, I can certainly understand why you worry about her having another A. Is there any way the 2 of you can come to some kind of compromise/agreement so that you're not worried all the time, and she doesn't have to feel like you're controlling and watching her every move? (No one likes to feel like they're living under a microscope.) That's why Harley's policy of radical honesty does make sense. I would recommend adapting this concept somehow to fit your and your wife's needs.

"Counselor states that i have no control over the fact if she is going to have another A or have inappropriate relationships. I cant worry or "control" her actions. That she will do it without me being controlling or not."

>It's true, no one can truly "control" another person. However, I firmly believe we all can have positive and negative influences on everyone around us. Have you read HNHN? The one thing that hits home for me is that if I met all of my H's EN's, he wouldn't have the desire nor need to look for love elsewhere. And, thus, I do have control, but the control is on me and my own actions that will, in turn, influence how my H responds to me and our M.

"a cucumber turns into a pickel but a pickle can never go back to being a cucumber"

>If I believed in this statement, I would've never returned to my H.

Again, welcome back, Wrestling. You're definitely in the right place to get some good answers. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

thanks whipser,

the cucumber reference was too being an alcoholic. once an alcoholic always one. sorry, i guess i should have said that better.

as far as the website, i use to live here, for over 6 monts post DD, i could resite the website like some people can the gettysburg address.

the radical honesty thing works for me, even though i should hold back a teeny little bit some times, but the lack of any real honesty from FWW is almost non-existent.

what i am having a hard time with is the understanding of not worrying about what wife is doing and still care. dont worrying and caring go hand in hand?

wwl

"what i am having a hard time with is the understanding of not worrying about what wife is doing and still care. dont worrying and caring go hand in hand?"

Yes - so long as the "worry" is a selfless worry. Meaning, you're concerned for the health and well-being of the person you care about, not because it serves a more selfish purpose like "is she going to cheat on me?" The latter is not healthy for either party involved. That's why I encourage you to talk with your wife (w/ no LB's) and come up with an agreement that's suitable for both that will alleviate your constant worry and her feeling like she's living under a microscope.

Also, I very much believe in fulfilling each other's EN's so that the other won't even consider looking elsewhere. So, since Day 1 of recovery, I've made a point of telling my H the EN's I need him to fill so that I wouldn't ever go astray. (In the past, I just assumed he knew. Duh!!) Well, it's working beautifully! Perhaps you can give that a shot??

Good luck!

ok.. yes.. i get it.....BUT....

the topic of conversation. what appears to me: if you run into someone you have seen in 10 years or someone new you strike a conversation with. You can go on and on about what has gone on in those past years and its a new topic with that other individual and it seems like its a great conversation. (follow me here...) When your in a relationship with a person that long, you cant have "the same conversation" as you can with others.

this is how W's A started, W ran into someone she hadnt seen in over 5 years and "it appeared" OM was interested in her because of all the attention given while listening to W. Weeeellll, it has happened again and this time with more than one other individual lately. I find it hard to have "conversations" like that. do you know what i mean?

Yes i am worried because of past actions of W. It doesnt help that she has also lost some weight and started wearing tighter fitting clothing when she goes out and about. This has been goin on for a few months now, and everytime i ask about something or wish to discuss this, i get the "you are sooooo controlling" speach.

Am i meeting her EN's? I dont know if i can ever actually meet her needs the way she wants.

Counselor asked, "what if she will never be the wife you want?" WOW, i was speechless, i have never been asked that before. he goes on to state that a spouse will never totally be what the other spouse wants. he stated, that i probably am not exactly what the wife wants for a husband either. But he states to try controlling what the W does is actually out of my control.

When i think about her EN's and how i meet them, i do my best, but I know they arent anywhere close to where she wants them. and that scares me....... know what i mean?

Only difference between pre-A and now is she has learned how to established some "boundaries" and "limits". whether or not i would consider those things as innappropriate, i dont know.

attention is her most important EN. she will steal for it. she will wreck a car for it (2 totalled cars in 2004, 5 accidents in 3 years)(all her fault and basically not paying attention), she will lie for it.

sorry to get ramblin............

wwl

I completely understand. One of the reasons I looked for love elsewhere was b/c I felt that our conversations have run dry. There was nothing to talk about, nothing exciting anymore. On top of all our other problems, I was bored! I thought to myself ... if this is what I can expect for the rest of my life, COUNT ME OUT! For years, I've watched those old, retired couples at Denny's. You’ve seen them. They'd sit there for 2 hours. The husband would read the papers while the wife would pick at her food. Not a word passed between the 2 of them – for TWO flippin’ hours! I always thought to myself - that would NEVER happen to me! Well, it did, and I'm only 32!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Interestingly enough, I'm re-reading HNHN through a new set of eyes (now that I actually WANT my M to work). Coincidently, I just finished the chapter on conversation, and it all made sense ... When we first met in college, my H & I did EVERYTHING together. In fact, I used to brag that since Day 1, we saw each other every single day until he was deployed for field exercises in the Army after we were married. B/c we liked each other so much, we compromised and participated in each other's hobbies just so we can be together. And, boy, did we have a lot to talk about!! We'd talk about how we beat each other in tennis, how I thought he'd cheated in poker, how the animals at the zoo thought WE were the weirdos. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Now, with work, family, pets, bills, chores, our time is limited. So, instead of compromising on our hobbies, we just did them separately. And, naturally, we grew apart. I hear people say that every couple should have their own identifies & do their own things so that there are things to talk about. What I can tell you is I DON’T GIVE A [censored] ABOUT COMPUTER GAMES! And, I’m pretty sure my H cares even less about what I saw at the antique mall. So, do you really think that having different hobbies really helped our conversations? Yeah, right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

You said: “W ran into someone she hadnt seen in over 5 years and "it appeared" OM was interested in her because of all the attention given while listening to W. Weeeellll, it has happened again and this time with more than one other individual lately. I find it hard to have "conversations" like that. do you know what i mean?”

You bet! You’re writing to the lady who left her H to be w/ a FAR lesser man who provided me w/ the very same thing! So, here’s what you can do to make sure that this doesn’t happen again - 1) Go through Harley’s recreational activity inventory w/ your wife. Pick out a few activities that BOTH of you enjoy. (Frankly, I was shocked at some of the things I discovered my H enjoyed. I thought his whole existence was dedicated to keeping the couch from flying away, but I’m so glad I was wrong!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Then, start doing those things – 2 to 3 times a week, and don’t give yourselves the excuses of “We don’t have any time.” or “We have children.” If your M is as important as you say, you’ll find the time and a babysitter for the kids (trust me, a D and child support will cost you a lot more). What happens next is the 2 of your will start to talk about what happened when you did ‘this thing’ or ‘that thing’ together. Why? Because those activities will be new things, new memories. Kind of like having a conversation with a new person, huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> For example, if both of you enjoy golf, I’ll bet there’s a lot of talk about if she thought you cheated on your scorecard or if she hit a goose with that awesome line drive. Heck, drive the cart right over her ball or steal someone else’s ball and throw it back a few paces if you have to to make interesting conversation. Be creative, spontaneous and silly. Women love all of the above! 2) If you really want your M to work, then act like you’re interested in her conversation – it takes less effort than worrying about her potential A all the time. Meaning, ask her how her day has been. Even if it sounds boring to you, probe further. Half the time, we (women) just want someone to talk to & vent to about absolutely nothing. We also love to talk about how we feel about someone or some event. If she doesn’t volunteer it at first, probe her for it. She’ll loosen up after a while, trust me. The neat thing is once you do #1 for a while, your conversations will start to become interesting to you b/c it’ll be around topics & activities you enjoy too.

“am worried because of past actions of W. It doesnt help that she has also lost some weight and started wearing tighter fitting clothing when she goes out and about.”

Well, then compliment her on how great she looks. My H told me that he always thought I looked beautiful and sexy, but he never said it. Plus, his actions didn’t say it either. Tell her how hot she looks. Pardon the visual, but grab her @ss once in a while and stare down her blouse a couple of times. Will it feel awkward at first? Yes. But, I can tell you we (women-folk) may say that those things are "crude," but deep down, we love that kind of stuff, and you get a free feel and looksy out of it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I hate to put this bluntly, but if you don’t, someone else will. How’s that for a visual?

“Am i meeting her EN's? I dont know if i can ever actually meet her needs the way she wants.”

If you’re so worried that your W may start another affair, your best defense is to do everything to prevent it … by learning how to meet her needs. How does one do that? Ask! B/c women are very intuitive, we think men are too, so we think that you “should already know.” I’ve learned to just ask my H to meet my needs. For example, one of the things the OM did I always liked was he always called me during lunch. Even if we couldn’t talk, I loved getting his voicemails. Well, I came out and told my H to please call me during lunch. He does it every day now, and, boy, I LOVE IT! So, if you want to know what she wants, ask her!

“"what if she will never be the wife you want?"

Same thing here. Tell her what you want. Help her learn what your needs are and how to meet those needs. We’re pretty intuitive, but we’re not psychics either. One thing I’ve learned is that nobody is perfect, and there’s no such thing as “soulmates.” Just like how I know which buttons to push on my H, I also learn what he likes/dislikes. That’s how I can become “the perfect wife” for him.

“attention is her most important EN. she will steal for it. she will wreck a car for it (2 totalled cars in 2004, 5 accidents in 3 years)(all her fault and basically not paying attention), she will lie for it.”

It’s great that you know this. The question is what are you doing to satisfy it? Are you sending her a single red rose at work out of the blue? Note: women love to get flowers/gifts in public – it’s the attention, not the gift that we crave. Are you leaving little cards tucked on top of her sun visor in her car to let her know how much you love her and want to make this M work? It’s amazing what happens when someone is willing to bend a little. Yeah, maybe your manly pride may dip a little, but isn’t a happy M worth it? Consider dedicating a song to her at the next blues bar. (Again, going back to the attention thing.)

I don’t mean to sound harsh, but if you’re not doing these things for her, someone else will think of it. I simply want to impress upon you what (IMHO) it takes to win her back –physically and emotionally … and to ease your own mind. As we all know, the best way to prevent an A is to be in a happy, fulfilling M. And, if you ever want to know if this is possible, ask me. I’ve been in a loveless M for the past 7 years. We were just days away from filig a D. And the past 3 weeks have been the happiest I can remember. Why? Because we’re doing exactly what I’m preaching. I thank my lucky stars every day that 1) I was able to turn around 2) that my H was willing to take me back and 3) we’re both willing to do what it takes to make things work. What are you willing to do? Is it worth it to you?

Best wishes … and keep writing! I’ve got ALL KINDS of great ideas you can try. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

well.... have thought about responding for a a day now... had IC yesterday. first off, the IC specialty is addiction. but he stated something that seriously contradicts marriage builders. He stated it is impossible for a spouse to meet ALL the needs of the other spouse all of the time. He also stated it puts alot of pressure on the spouse to try meeting all those needs. This is also a IC that has visited this site when i mentioned it about 5 months ago. This is also an IC that had an affair ruin his first marriage by his spouse.

this IC stated your signature line as well. I do understand the statement, i just have a problem with what could happen between letting go and the possibility of W coming back.

i appreciate your input since others have stayed away from the post. But yes... getting a sitter is almost impossible. if we can get one for an evening every 6-8 weeks, we did good. an overnite trip???? sheesh, that takes months of advance notice.

right now, wife has been unemployed for approximetely 15 months, so no i dont send things to her at work or call her at work.

going through the activities list.... LOL... if it dont include fishing, having sex or riding the harley... i really dont care or are interested. W likes going to the movies which i gave up years ago, last movie i saw was forrest gump. you see, i have a hearing problem and i ALWAYS have someone next to me or behind me that talks non=stop, or when i go the restroom, the best part of the movie takes place. So, we watch as home and rewind or pause. W also likes to go shopping.... i just dont think thats the best thing to do with her since she is an addictive compulsive shoplifter... not yet anyways. i'd take her everytime i go fishing if we had a sitter. and she enjoys riding the bike too.... its just a sitter situation. the kids arent old enough to be just left at home alone for a few hours yet.

and btw, i am not trying to avoid D because of it costing so much. we had a prenumpt done and i basically keep everything the way it is anyways.... so thats not my cop out either.

wwl

ps... i wish you'd been around years ago to speak to the wife the way your speaking to me...... sigh

"He stated it is impossible for a spouse to meet ALL the needs of the other spouse all of the time. He also stated it puts alot of pressure on the spouse to try meeting all those needs. "

>I completely agree w/ your IC on these points. I don't think I will ever be a "perfect W" nor my H ever be a "perfect H." Like I said previously, I don't even believe in soulmates. With that said, I definitely believe we can meet each other's EN's better than anyone else ... because we choose to. To me, this is key! 1) If nobody else is meeting my H's EN better than I, it prevents him from wanting to seek love elsewhere and 2) If I choose versus being forced to, I don't feel that pressure. It's really a matter of how much I want my M to work. I've always heard from long-time married couples that it's about mutual compromise to get the reward of a happy M. I really didn't "get" this until recently. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

"This is also an IC that had an affair ruin his first marriage by his spouse."

>I'm going to ruffle a LOT of feathers by my comments, but I've never been known to be politically correct <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ... unless a spouse is just plain cold-hearted, is a serial adulterer or has a serious problem w/ addiction, I think most would (deep-down) agree that a marriage is ruined by the acts (or rather, non-acts) of TWO people, and not simply by the the A itself. Again, if my H was meeting all or most of my EN's, I seriously doubt I would've looked elsewhere for that fulfillment. Is that an excuse for an A? No, but I also don't believe that I just woke up one day and said to myself ... "I'm going to crawl into a dirty hole, commit adultery and have an affair so that I could destroy my M and torment my H today." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

"i just have a problem with what could happen between letting go and the possibility of W coming back."

>You may not like hearing this, but I'm pretty certain that if you knew (without any doubt) that you're meeting your W's EN's, you wouldn't be concerned about this. I just asked my H (who feels pretty jaded and unnerved by my recent acts) about this, and he agrees. Want to know what he said next? "And, if I did everything to meet those needs, and you ran off again, then" (he waved goodbye). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> And, I agree. You see, we both know that pre-A, there were a LOT of issues we/he wasn't willing to deal with. He (like like me and everyone who knew me) just never thought I would EVER even consider an A.

"getting a sitter is almost impossible."

>You sound like a smart guy. I'm sure you can figure out ways. Again, how much do you really want thos M to work? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

"wife has been unemployed for approximetely 15 months, so no i dont send things to her at work or call her at work."

>Just curious - Is she looking for a job or did you 2 agree that she'd stay at home? (I'll explain why I ask this later.)

"going through the activities list.... LOL"

>Have you actually gone through it w/ your W? You'll be amazed what you could learn about her AND yourself. Something to keep in mind is there are activities that my H and I would like doing better (i.e. him w/ computer games and me w/ ice skating) individually. The key is to find things we both liked - even if the activities are few and the enjoyment is somewhat limited. Although those things aren't exactly at the top of either of our lists, we still do enjoy them AND, because we know we need to do things that will stimulate converstaion, we do them instead of just the things we would prefer individually. Does that make sense? Hey, keep in mind, you asked what can renew that stale conversation. Well, here it is. What you do w/ it is up to you. You'll hear me say this a million times ... is this M worth it to you? Note that I've learned that it's not just THIS M but rather that it's ANY M that would require this kind of effort, so I might as well make this one as good as it gets since I've already put in 12 years of effort into this one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

"and btw, i am not trying to avoid D because of it costing so much"

>who says I meant dollars? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

"i wish you'd been around years ago to speak to the wife the way your speaking to me"

>I wish I had someone who kicked my H and me in the rear several years ago too, but I need to make do w/ what I have now. And, it is the effort of both my H and me. You know, our families are about the same age. And, with what you and I've shared, out sitch's aren't that different. If you can teach these 2 (my H and me) old dogs new tricks, the same thing can happen for your W & you (who are even younger than we)!!!

Again, I strongly suggest your reading HNHN and complete that recreational activities list some time. You'd be amazed.

her working... after totalling car #2, she would not have been able to get to her part time job. i did not get another car because we had just got this car 3 months prior, so i fixed it and it took 3 months because i could only work on it when people were at the business during afterhours(its what i do for a living). she had mentioned that she wanted to stay home with the kids anyways. Now, she is looking for employment.

we have gone through the activities list and it turned out to be seriously limited. and hnhn.. been there done that. we even "re-did" it and it still lined up with the originals 3 years ago (yes, i had saved them)

the sitter thing again.... almost impossible. i dont just say that, it is fact. daycare services down here end at 8 pm as well during the week, and at noon on weekends. and we dont have any middle teenage girls or whatnot around to watch them either for a few hours. her mother i will not allow to watch them (many many reasons that i wont go into unless asked). her dad lives 2000 miles away. my parents, well my mom is home very seldom and my father wont watch them (i have asked numerous occasions).

and the efforts in a marriage are there by me to make it work. and i believe that alot of effort is there from W, its just harder because of W's dishonesty and my withdrawal/controlling behavior because of the dishonesty.

wwl

actually i'll get into why her mother isnt allowed to watch the kids. oldest D was not quite 2 and W's mother was watching her at our house, neighbor found D walking down the road and caught her and W's mother didnt even realize she was gone. W's mother was witnessed one time and caught another time on tape for hitting the kids with a wooden spoon before she would drop them off at day care on 2 occasions ( and the people that witnessed this did not see one reason why she did this) W's mother made a key to my car one weekend when she was watching oldest D while W and i went on a overnite fishing trip. a few weeks later we went on another trip and W's mother racked up over 200 miles on the car and tore off the bumper and tried saying she didnt do it. a couple days later W lost the keys to the car and W came to my work to get a spare key in moms vehicle and when i got the key back to the house for W, the car was moved and i noticed about 30 miles on the car (this is how we found proof of another key to the car) W's mother stole a check out of my checkbook to pay off some NSF she had (i didnt find out till i had some checks bounce myself and i have never had that happen, thankfully the person at the bank knew me well and took the nsf's off my record after i told her what happened) W's mother, with my W's involvement stole another check a few years later to cover W's NSF's that she aquired from giving her mom money over a period of time. a few years later we gave her mom another shot and let her watch both D's this time and she changed youngests diaper one time in almost 30 hours. she also would come to my house during 120 degree weather turn the ac down to 60 and leave the door and a window open while no one was there but W's mom. she was watching oldest D one time and left some food boiling on the stove and left the house to go to a friends, i almost lost the house, thankfully my neighbors have a key to the place and thought something was wrong, i only had to replace the ceiling and a wall in the kitchen. um.. i know there is more but i am thinking you get the idea. yes, there is a certain amount of anger i have towards W's mother

"Now, she is looking for employment."

>This is a good thing. Hopefully, this will give her some confidence and self-esteem. A lot of positives can come out of it. The reason I asked the question in the 1st place is b/c when my H was laid off nearly 4 years ago, he withdrew and became very depressed. He also became self-destructive and tossed our M away like it was yestesday's paper. Now that he's back in the workforce, he's regained focus and confidence. Once he felt comfortable with himself, he's abile to give to me and the M too. I do know men and women have differing views on work, but if your W is anything like me, she probably likes the fact that you're the provider, but she doesn't like the fact that she HAS to depend on you. It's a lousy feeling to know that you're forced to rely someone else for your survival. I think that her getting a job could be a very good thing - in more ways than 1!

"we have gone through the activities list and it turned out to be seriously limited"

>You're telling me! For a while there I thought the only thing we had in common was the fact that we both liked to eat. Sad, but true. But, with the very few things we did somewhat jointly enjoyed, we did those (a lot). And, after a little while, we actually started liking each other. With time, we started feeling comfortable w/ one another too. I never thought that could happen, esp. after having an A that ripped us apart, but it did. It's still somewhat awkward, esp. when it comes to intimacy, but things are definitely getting better and better.

"the sitter thing again.... almost impossible"

>So sorry to hear that extended family is not an option for babysitting. Something to think about is women LOVE to see their H's (or men in general) take care of and love on their kids. Don't ask why. I've a hard time figuring out women sometimes too - and I'm a woman! Can you all go out together, as a family? Some fairly inexpensive things to do - fishing, camping, picnics, BBQ's, hiking? Since my parents filed for bankruptcy and I've been (financially) on my own since I was 15, I've got a ton of inexpensive family-fun ideas. It's true that it's a bit difficult to get intimate w/ your W w/ the kids around, but, hey, at least you're doing fun stuff that will generate conversation (and admiration from your W).

"its just harder because of W's dishonesty and my withdrawal/controlling behavior because of the dishonesty."

>I fully understand that your withdraw/controlling behavior was originally prompted by your W's PAST behavior (and I emphasize PAST unless you can prove to me otherwise). So, my question to you is how long will you punish her AND yourself by holding onto the past? Yes, it's easier said than done, but the fact of the matter is your W is no longer dishonest. If you truly want things to work (and it sounds like she does), you've got to let the negative go and look for positive ways to rebuild!!

It's true. My H could easily sit there and condemn me all day for what I've done or he could say to himself - she's made a horrible mistake, but I've not been the perfect H either. Knowing we never want to get back to this point again, how can I prevent it? You know what? He prevents it by 1) making the very positive changes in himself that makes him the H I can be proud of and love again and 2) by his willingness to forgive and accept me back and 3) to learn how to best meet my EN's. What more can a girl possibly ask for??? Now you see why, if this "new man" is here to stay, I can't possibly stray again?

WWL, please don't let your emotions get the best of you and the opportunity for a renewed M. Use the sound logic that you already have. See your W for who she is - someone (like me) who knows she's made a terrible mistake and just simply hoping that you'll give her another chance and take her back - physically and emotionally. You do that, and she'll never forget it!!

Best wishes!

BTW - stinks about your MIL, when you get a free week or so, I'll give you a whole dissertation on mine. ha!

i hear ya....

but when ya say "past" behavior, it really isnt about that. her lying is a current issue and past issue. thats what i am having a problem with.

honesty is my most important EN. and since i am not getting that, i dont know what to think anymore it seems. the dishonesty is an ongoing issue and serious problem that i am trying to come to grip with. i am not saying she is unwilling to be honest, its she may be unable to be honest with me.... and it hurts

wwl

I know you're currently seeing an IC. Have you and your W considered seeing a pro-M MC? You're right. Honesty and trust are what most couples consider to be the core foundation of a sound M. And, a good MC can help address this for both of you. Meaning, your W's habitual lying and your continued distrust toward her.

You see, my H has always struggled w/ dishonesty. He's what's called passive-aggressive where he lies to avoid controversy and then does what he pleases to get his way and then later lies again to cover it up. Our MC is helping him make great strides in changing this behavior. While your W may have a different reason for lying, a good MC should be able to help with this, regardless of the reason. Why don't you give that a try? (By the way, you said your IC is a specialist on addictions. Lying can also be an addiction too, you know.)

her dishonesty/lying stems from her growing up and the sexual abuse she endured. its all she knows how to do, her mother in a way taught her to do this.... again, its all she knows.

IC stated that it may take years before she is completely honest with me. he also stated that she may never be completely honest with me.... and that hurts

wwl

I can relate. My H lost his mom when he was in high school. She died of brain cancer which debilitated her for years where (to a junior high/high school kid who came from a conservative, Bostonian family) it was a real embarrassment. So, he and his family lied to cover things up. Even after her death, their family, to this day, never even grieved. They still can't talk about it. Amazing how our childhood can affect our adult lives, huh? Believe me, I've had emotional/psychological abuse problems from my childhood that I've dealt w/ for years. I still think that b/c I came from such a broken family that I, perhaps, was almost predisposed to an A. It's not an excuse. Just a hunch.

Again, if your W is struggling with these issues, then she DEFINITELY needs to go to MC or IC to get help. Without it, she can only get worse and it's even likely that other bad behaviors may manifest. Again, I know. I've been there. Please encourage her to seek help.

WWL,
Yo Bud, long time for me too. Just lurking around today, and I’m way out of practice so take my words with the grain of salt they deserve.

With out all the babble your IC is right on the worrying thing. You can worry about her “or Not”, she’s going to do what she’s going to do anyway. That’s her choice, your only choice is whether you waste your time worrying or not.


Chronic lying, I know this is not a new thing she’s always been this way. My question is do you think your trying to control her has contributed to it? She doesn’t want to be controlled so she constantly finds way to wiggle out of it. “Food for thought.”

Also your discussion and obvious disgust with it here makes me wonder if you haven’t shared this with her also, and often. She could be thinking, “What’s the difference” he always thinks I’m lying anyway. (P.S. she’d be correct you do always think that.)

If you’re keeping her you need to really work on how you react when she does tell you a truth that you don’t like vs. your controlling behaviors. It’s that old learned behavior thing. Make telling you the truth uncomfortable once and it may set all your efforts back by years. (I train dogs, it never ceases to amaze me how an owner will get mad at their dog, call it to come, discipline it, then become angry next time the dog won’t come when called.)

As I’ve said, I’m out of practice, but it’s really good to know you’re still kickin.

PS,
We landed a 250 Lb Maco last summer and I caught my first White Marlin both of which came out of the water thrashing like Bass, it was pretty awesome to see first hand.

Oz

mr oswald sir!!

thanks for stoppin by, always appreciate your thoughts. it always seems that i cant argue with anything you say, never could. your right, it isnt a new thing shes doing, i am just getting tired of it and with some things that were mentioned in counseling, i thoguht i would throw some questions on the board. what i say to her.... "i am tired of the lying" and when i even can prove her wrong with the lying, she still says shes telling the truth. its just real hard, real real hard.

thanks again for stoppin by and awesome catch guy

wwl

whisper

W is seeking help, and about a predisposed A, first IC i saw made the statement that even if i had been affectionate and loving, W's would have more than likely had an A.

wwl

"even if i had been affectionate and loving, W's would have more than likely had an A."

>Just a note - just b/c someone may be predisposed to something, a stimulus is still require to trigger the predisposition. I'm glad you're listening to oswald. Sounds like the guy knows what he's talking about.

Take care,

whisper... boy he does... heres a few links of this mans wisdom:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=008070;p=1

and part 2:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=015490;p=1#000000


enjoy.... i liked em so much, that i have them bookmarked and on file on the computer

wwl