Ok folks, I could really use some help and advice right now. Some background since my last post. Wife and I took a trip back home, we got along great and even had some SC. We talked quite a bit and I found out that she has obtained another cell phone, has plans on going to a formal function with OM & the extent of their relationship. I told her about a girl that a buddy of mine tried setting me up with, and that she keeps calling, and we do talk quite a bit. When the trip ended she appologized for "avoiding" me and said she would be calling & stopping over more often, which she did.

Yesterday we were talking and I thought she was hinting that she wanted to go to dinner, so I offered; she declined saying she was exhausted and was going straight home to bed (she still has no bed in her "home"). Later last night she calls me and tells me that she went to a ball game with OM & saw some of our friends; she says she's telling me "out of respect" and so I hear it from her first. Needless to say our conversation didn't go so well, but there were no names called, accusations made, etc. I sat and stewed about the new relevation for a while before deciding to go to Wal-Mart at 11pm and change the locks on the house.

Today I had lunch with a friend who advised that my wife has been seen with OM several times at parties and functions over the past month (both while I was out of town and since I've been back and we've separated). While talking with my friend OM pulled into a parking spot, I had some of wife's belongings in the back of my truck so I transferred them to his after he had gone into his office. Wife has called me at least 12 times today and sent at least 15 e-mail's. The last call she couldn't understand why I would change the locks and why I would put her stuff in the back of someone's truck. I tried explaining that I cannot trust her and I didn't put her stuff in "someone's" truck, I put it in OM's so he could give it to her.
(OBTW, her and OM spent the night together last night, found out from friends).

Now she's bawling and yelling, then appologizing, then yelling some more, then hanging up on me, etc. I believe I have just moved into Plan B, which is virgin territory for me. Was I justified in changing the locks? Was I justified in being upset that she dissed me for dinner only to go out with OM? Was I justified in transferring some of her belongings into OM's truck? What the heck do I do now? I'm beginning to feel out of control again, but I'm trying to stay strong, just need some guidance from those who have been there already on how to handle the situation, PLEASE.

Good Grief TM,
Is that you??

I hoped We would never see you back.

It's been a long time........and I see you have been here again for a little while.

This is the second time.

You are justified in being upset.
As far as the locks, that would be covered under the laws of your state. I would guess that you don't have that right, but it might stick if she doesn't do anything about it.
It will probably make her less likely to want to reconcile.

You do need a good plan, and you need to run it daily no matter what you feel.

Do you really want her back?

IN the short term, don't yell back. Don't react when she is angry. Why let a crazy person control YOUR moods.

I really think you ought to call Steve Harley. That would be your best chance.

Did you ever quit smoking? (Just remembering)

SS

SS, yes it's me, and yes this is our 2nd time. I had hoped I would never be back here, but then again I guess that's what happens when you get complacent.

Do I want her back? I'm really not sure anymore. I cannot believe a word she says, and I don't believe I will ever trust her again. I do not believe in divorce, but what is the alternative?

I am not letting her control my moods (at least in outward appearances) and I do not yell back or argue with her, I'm sticking VERY CLOSELY to Michelle Weiner Davis' "Divorce Busting 180 List". Steve Harley is out of the question right now, it's difficult to even buy necessities.

Yes I quit smoking, for a very short time. Now I'm up to nearly 2 packs a day; not good for me, I know.

SS, thank you for your time and words of wisdom, it is folks like you (and many others) that helped me through something I didn't think I could make it through last time. This time I know I can (and will) make it through and become a better better person, I owe you and many others for the confidence I've retained in myself.

I know you would like to have her back, and if OM was to disapear forever, you probably wouldn't mind. (Wouldn't that make things easier?)

However, OM is there, she is attached, and this stinks.

As before, All you can do is be the best you that you can possibley be, and hope she comes around.

I tend to believe her feelings were never dealt with the first time. That is, she stayed because it kind of worked out, but she didn't promise no contact, or agree to live Dr Harleys 4 rules. You just crossed your fingers, and were glad she was still there, and didn't push for more because you were afraid it might all fall apart if you did that.

So, here you are. I see you have recent threads, and I see Coffee man is helping, but I haven't read them all.

Are you firmly in plan A now?
If so, why throw her clothes at her like that?

BTW, I am not getting on you about it, but I want to understand your plan, and your motives.

SS

SS, wouldn't it be nice if ALL the OM's in the world just disappeared? I concur that her feelings were never dealt with, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you describe our actions. We verbally agreed NC with OM (and as far as I know that lasted for approx. a year and a half), we read Harleys books & both agreed to follow his principles, BUT once everything appeared rosey and perfect again we both started drifting away. We gradually stopped MC and IC and my job had me traveling a lot, which separated us both physically and emotionally.

Yes, I am in Plan A right now (I think), however I know my actions last night and today do not correspond with the principles of Plan A. Digging down deep and being honest with myself I guess I did it out of anger, frustration, desperation and spite. However, at the time I justified it with whisper's words of wisdom that said she did not wake up until she realized that her husband was moving on without her. Make any sense to you? If so can you explain it to me cause I'M LOST!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So, am I still in Plan A or have I moved on to Plan B. And, if I'm still in A how do I fix this blunder. If I'm in B what's my next step?

We gradually stopped MC and IC and my job had me traveling a lot, which separated us both physically and emotionally.

Is there any way to deal with this (job) part of things?

I sounds like she needs someone there all the time. Being away cost you a lot.

Yes, I am in Plan A right now (I think), however I know my actions last night and today do not correspond with the principles of Plan A. Digging down deep and being honest with myself I guess I did it out of anger, frustration, desperation and spite. However, at the time I justified it with whisper's words of wisdom that said she did not wake up until she realized that her husband was moving on without her. Make any sense to you? If so can you explain it to me cause I'M LOST!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Remember that I am just one of the people that posts here, not an expert.

What Whisper says does make sense. Her H did a 180 and showed her that he was finished worrying if she would come back or not. However, you showed your W that you were angry and hurt, not that you were moving on.

I suggest you do a really good plan A for another little while, then go to plan b. Base the time left for plan A on how well you have been doing plan A up till now. If you haven't done very well, then a month or two would make sense.

This doesn't mean she has no consenquences, and it doesn't mean you are a door mat. It means you are in contact with her and you are trying to get her to leave OM.

Expose if there are still people to expose to.

Everyone makes mistakes - but you just have to go on.

Here are some references - but I bet Coffee man already gave you some.

Plan A, and who am I ( Pepperband)

Mthrrhbard on Plan A and natural consequences

Ark on plan A

Remember again, you can't make her do anything. Having anger is natural, showing it usually drives them away.

If this is going to work, it is going to take forumlating, and carrying out a good plan.

It also means that you do need to prepare for the worst, and go on if that happens. It's not fair, it's not right, and it feels terrible, but its' real life.

Her crying and yelling is a good sign. It means she still has feelings for you, and knows what she is doing is wrong.

Is there anyting else that has happened the last few years that we need to know?

SS

SS, I can't really change my job. I'm in the process of job hunting right now because my position is being RIF'ed in September. You're right, she does need someone there all of the time, that's why whenever possible I bow out of trips or take her with me, however that is the exception, not the norm.

About a year and a half or so ago the person that raped her as a child was arrested, tried and convicted for doing the same to several others. She took this very hard and blamed herself because she never said anything; she felt that it was her fault that those girls had to go through the same thing she did because she did not stand up. Shortly after that she quit going to her IC. She's been to a hypnotist, but would never discuss the session with me.

She has also obtained a very good job and already been promoted. This was very hard for me because the last time she just kept talking about how when she got a good job and made enough money she was going to leave for good.

Last night we spoke and worked some things out; she brought me over some money and we talked some more, before she left she gave me a hug and a kiss. Approx. 10 minutes later I left the house to go to a friends B-day party and met wife heading the other way on the road, 1/4 mile up the road OM's truck was parked at someone's house that he frequents. This is also the same house that he and her were seen at during a party while I was gone on my bike trip.

So, she comes over, gives me money, talks, gives me a kiss and leaves to go directly to OM. Kinda takes the wind out of your sails ya know? I go from feeling pretty crummy & angry yesterday, to feeling pretty good after talking to her, right back to feeling betrayed, angry, hurt and resentful 10 minutes later. THAT is not an easy thing to deal with, and it makes a good Plan A VERY difficult to say the least.

Hi TM,
Been wondering how you are today.

About a year and a half or so ago the person that raped her as a child was arrested, tried and convicted for doing the same to several others. She took this very hard and blamed herself because she never said anything; she felt that it was her fault that those girls had to go through the same thing she did because she did not stand up. Shortly after that she quit going to her IC. She's been to a hypnotist, but would never discuss the session with me.


Gee Whiz, This would make things worse. I am not qualified to know what all the fallout would be, but it has to affect her. I wonder why she wouldn't discuss that last session.

She has also obtained a very good job and already been promoted. This was very hard for me because the last time she just kept talking about how when she got a good job and made enough money she was going to leave for good.

You know she can leave if she wants. In the society we live in now, there is nothing that can be done with out destroying yourself right along with. You have to make peace with this, and do the best you can. I worry that you are still beat up (and this is emotional too) from your accident. I worry that you will have the energy to expend on recovery.

Last night we spoke and worked some things out..................
So, she comes over, gives me money, talks, gives me a kiss and leaves to go directly to OM. Kinda takes the wind out of your sails ya know? I go from feeling pretty crummy & angry yesterday, to feeling pretty good after talking to her, right back to feeling betrayed, angry, hurt and resentful 10 minutes later. THAT is not an easy thing to deal with, and it makes a good Plan A VERY difficult to say the least.

What did you work out? Day to day things about money, and the kids, or something else?

Again, you can't make her do anything. You can do things that will help her to choose you. Anger won't help with that. It's not an easy choice for you. It will take all your self control to work on your marriage while she is going to see OM.

If you want it, you have to do the work, there is no other way. In your present condition, do you think you can?

When will the kids be home?
What is supposed to happen then?

What is the deal about her moving out? I mean, is there an agreement that she gives up OM and moves back? Or what?

SS

SS, thanks, I'm doing ok I suppose.

"You know she can leave if she wants. In the society we live in now, there is nothing that can be done with out destroying yourself right along with. You have to make peace with this, and do the best you can."
Yes, I know she can leave and there is nothing I can do about it. That is something that I have come to grips with and deal with better each day.

"I worry that you are still beat up (and this is emotional too) from your accident. I worry that you will have the energy to expend on recovery."
You are correct. I am physically and emotionally drained. Riding my bike used to be my release from everything, a way to relax and let the worrys of the day blow away. Now I'm trying to find a new release, but in my physical condition that is becoming increasingly difficult.

"What did you work out? Day to day things about money, and the kids, or something else?"
Basically we both calmed down and talked about the past few days events (me changing the locks, dumping her things in OM's truck, etc.).

"If you want it, you have to do the work, there is no other way. In your present condition, do you think you can?"
Honestly I have no idea. Right now I just feel drained, both emotionally and physically. I'm not sure that I have the energy to keep riding this roller coaster over and over again. I'm doing my best, but the last few days I know I haven't been doing so well.

"When will the kids be home?"

"What is supposed to happen then?"
Kids should be home around the beginning of July or so. I have no idea what happens when they get back; we've discussed long-term custody issues (joint, we both share equal time & no child support), but not the immediate return.

"What is the deal about her moving out? I mean, is there an agreement that she gives up OM and moves back? Or what?"

She knows that while there is ANY contact with OM she will not be allowed back in the house. Lately I've also been complating the same policy for her enabling "friends", but I honestly don't know if it will come down to that, as that would require her to WANT to come back.

Weekend update.
After she left the house Thursday night I did not hear back from her until she called late Sunday afternoon to ask if she could take me out to dinner for fathers day. She said she'd be over to pick me up around 6:00pm. Around 6:30 I decided she wasn't going to show, so I got ready to head out to a friends house.

She pulled up and we both decided we weren't hungry, so she took me over and showed me her new house. While there a friend called and wanted me to meet him down at the local watering hole. We left her house, idle chit chat, nothing spectacular; she dropped me off and I headed out to meet my friend.

She was waiting around the corner, parked in the grocery store parking lot waiting to see where I went. I swung into McDonalds and grabbed a fish sandwich to get something in my stomach before heading to the bar. She left me a nasty voice mail and followed me up to the interstate where I jumped on and she continued on her own way.

Today she's been quite different, from the tone of her e-mails she's very down right now, not sure how to explain it, but she doesn't sound very good.

Are you still seeing her every day? Or if not, how often?

Do you date?

What kind of contact do you have?

Is she warm mostly, or cold?

SS

I didn't see that last one until after I had posted.

If she is down, visit her, take her favorite candy bar, or drink, or whatever.

Get her a magazine - whatever she likes to read, but doesn't already get. Tell her you care - use words like that, not love.

I care how you feel.
I was worried about you.
You are important to me.

Work them in. This is part of plan A.

Do you need to expose this to anyone? Her work? Parents?

Can you do plan A another two weeks at least?

About the kids:
Do this in writing, save face to face for running your plan. Leave her a note, or send email (whatever is most natural for you.)

Just ask -

"Was thinking about the kids coming back. Should they come home to me, or to you? I wish you could come back at the same time, it would mean the world to me.

We should work this out before it gets too close."


How are you now, after the accident? Are you off crutches, and back walking around, or is it worse than that?

BTW, I have been there, and have the scars and pins to prove it. My worst one wasn't a bike accident though, just a freak thing. 9 months before I could work again.

SS

" "Do you need to expose this to anyone? Her work? Parents?"
I'm pretty sure her work knows, he visits her there quite often. To my knowledge none of the family knows, and without some sort of proof I'm reluctant to say anything. I just haven't had the energy this time to do all the snooping & pooping "Information Gathering" that I did last time.

"Can you do plan A another two weeks at least?"
I don't know. At this point I'm taking it day to day, teetering on my own fence if you will.

Yesterday we were supposed to go to the MC; she hadn't mentioned anything by mid-morning so I dropped a gentle reminder and said something to the affect "we have that appt. scheduled for this afternoon, if you're not going to go can I borrow your car?". She said sure, just come pick it up. So when I get to her work guess what, OM is there. He took the fire exit stairs out of the building while I was coming in the front door, she said "he was just dropping some stuff off on someone elses desk". I was upset to say the least and had made my mind up; that was the last straw. So, when I returned her car to her I was very cold, I asked her when she was going to file for D, she asked when she should and I told her whenever she was ready; she walked away crying.

Last night she came over to the house to bring me some stuff I left in her car. We had a very good disucssion about the kids returning, what was going to happen when they got back, etc. She said she had planned on staying at the house for a couple of days when the kids got back if that was ok; and she said she wasn't completely done with our M, she just wasn't sure. She also said that she was minimizing her relationship with OM (obviously) "for my sake".

Today she's avoiding me again, no phone calls, no e-mail, etc. I've sent her a couple of e-mails on finances and insurance, nothing personal, just business; no reply. Not sure what to make of yesterday's events, not sure how much of this roller coaster I can handle before loosing my cookies & blowing my top.

Sorry, I missed you, and was out of town for a while.

The kids coming home is coming up quickly. I think I would let her back for a while, and hope it sticks. However, it will be hard on you.

If you are done, you can file. I wouldn't blame you. That's pretty final though.

SS

I spoke with an attorney this morning, $5K to file. I do not want to file, I don't believe in divorce, however the last few days I've taken quite a beating emotionally. Last night she came over to the house to get some more of her things, we were doing well and getting along. We stopped for dinner on the way to her house and began talking quite a bit. The conversation turned to sex and she made a comment something to the affect of "You know I'm seeing him now; I'm not going to have any sexual relations with you while I'm seeing him, that wouldn't be right". This coming from my WIFE who believes it is ok to have sex with her boyfriend, but not with her husband. I had her drop me off at a gas station and called a friend for a ride home. She e-mailed me this morning and said "I'm sorry" in the subject line, no message.

I know this is "fog talk" and all of that, but it just really hurts and I'm not sure how much more I can or want to take. The last week I've been slipping a little, I can feel myself sinking further into the depths of depression; I know I need to snap out of this and put on a happy face, but I just haven't been able to do it this time. Part of this may be because I have been talking with another woman quite often lately. Nothing going on, just phone conversations and someone to talk to that will pay attention to me and show me some attention. This weekend she said she didn't want to hear from me anymore because "this wasn't going anywhere". I thought we were just friends, apparently she thought otherwise. But, either way that affected me much more than I think it should. Talk about feeling like discarded trash....

Part of me wants to allow her back into the house when the kids return, the other part of me says NO WAY. I guess it's something I'm going to have to put a lot of thought into, and w and I should discuss, but I just don't even want to hear her voice right now. I'm going away for the weekend, a friend is allowing me to stay in her camping trailer at her house. I just feel like I have to get away from the house, as I sat there last night I just kept looking around and everything there reminds me of my wife; I don't feel strong enough right now to deal with that.

This is her second time. I don't believe in D either, but I believe it is justified, perhaps necessarry in the case of adultry.

You do need to protect your self. She is having sexual relations with someone else.

I don't know what is best. When you were here last, you were trying to find God again. He does know, don't be afraid to ask him.

You are depressed, but you don't have to be long term. You KNOW you have talents, and abilities. YOU KNOW IT. You can be happy again, and I think you know that too.

Since you can't change her, change you. You need to do something, not just think about the bad things that are happening. Make a plan FOR YOU. Include your children, and plan for a long, and happy life. DON't JUST SIT THERE FEELING SORRY FOR YOURSELF. Not doing something is a dead end. You are too good for that.

Realize that your happiness depends on how you react to this, not that it is happening. Look around, a high percentage of the adult population of the US is divorced. Many of them not of their own making. You can be happy again.

If you want to work on it longer, think about when you want to start plan B. It should be soon, before your feelings are lost. You will need a go between for business regarding the kids.

You could try one more time explaining to her that her choices are coming back with NC, or divorce and see what she says, but I think with her addiction, you would get the wrong answer.

Odds are that if you plan B for a year or so, she could come to her senses. I don't think I could do it, but most affairs do end.

Just remember that you have to take care of you, and if that means plan B, or D, then that's what you need to do.

TM,
You and I both have faults, but no one deserves this. Make a plan for turning you into that better you that you want to be a few years hence. Work on that, and let the other stuff go. That's all you can do.

Ss

This has been very difficult for me. Wife never wanted to go back to church, so it was pretty much the kids and I that went, and she would tag along once in a while. I haven't been in quite some time. I know God is there, and I know right now he is carrying me, if he wasn't there is no way I could survive this again. However, right or wrong I feel so betrayed and angry, I don't feel that I can talk to him right now.

Your post made me realize that I'm really not doing a very good Plan A. All I am doing is putting on a pretty face and pretending to be happy as much as I can. I just feel so lost right now, I cannot concentrate on anything and my work is suffering greatly. I'm hoping this weekend away with NC will help me get my head back on strait and begin moving forward again.

On another topic, I need to know if I'm doing the right thing or not. I mentioned that a female friend who I was speaking with has "broken off" our "relationship". That made me think about who I have been talking to, I have 1 or 2 male friends that I feel I can talk to, however there are at least 3 ladies that I converse with regularly now that I did not before all this started. Sometimes I feel like maybe there is relationship potential there, but most times (99.9%) it's just a friend to talk to. Someone that has gone through this and can attempt to shed some light on things from the female perspective. Is this right, or am I heading down the same path that my wife did when she began "talking" to OM again? I don't want anyone else to get hurt, and I especially don't want me to get hurt any more, but the lonliness is killing me.

As far as female friends............

You are much safer if you stay away. It is easier to talk to gals about these kinds of things, because they listen, and they care. When you are low (like you are now) you take chances. It skews your view of the situation.

If W had not talked to OM again, where would you be?

So, you can be safe, or not.

I don't want anyone else to get hurt, and I especially don't want me to get hurt any more, but the lonliness is killing me.

I wonder if the lonliess is killing you, of it doubt, and lack of moving foreward is killing you.

You are not a stupid man. You are not a lazy man. Think where the bad feelings and depression do come from. If God is real, then your enemy is real also. He seeks to destroy you. This is not something you can afford to loose.

TM, Stand for what is right.

And having done all, and if your world continues to fall down around you, Stand.

There are times in our lives when we just have make it work, no matter what. This is one of those times for you.

Write down what you think you you need to do. Pray about it, and when you have it fine tuned, do it.

If you don't feel like praying, kneel down, and pray until you do. I have been there, I know what it feels like, but helps comes.

I wish you were closer, I'd spend some time with you.
Wish I could help more.

SS

TM,

There is nothing wrong with having women friends as long as you do not cross marital boundaries with them. These boundaries are not just for the sake of your marriage but also for your sake and that of the woman who may be emotional vulnerable and inadvertedly fall in love with you. Too many BS's do cross these marital boundaries and later end up deeply regretting having done so. Don't be one of these folks.

You may also want to consider going to Plan B in earnest. Too much of "You know I'm seeing him now; I'm not going to have any sexual relations with you while I'm seeing him, that wouldn't be right" is toxic and will eventually destroy any love you have left for her. Plan B is tough, no doubt about that, but it will emotionally fortify you no matter what the ultimate outcome of your marriage is.


TMCM

SS,
Actually I think it's a little of all of the above. Sitting at home alone looking around the house kills me; all I can see is her. Sleeping alone at night without someone there beside me is miserable. However, I realize that sitting at home alone is not a good Plan A, there is nothing there that will better me for the future.
Doubt is a big one; I continually doubt myself and wonder if I am doing the right thing. Should I be talking to her more? Should I be in Plan B right now? Should I be out "gathering information" on her & OM to further the exposure (with her family)? Should I confront OM again?
Lack of moving forward is also difficult, especially when she says last week that nothing is going on, she's not at all interested in sex, and she can't say for sure that our marriage is over; then this week she's having sex with OM and won't "cheat" on him. Very confusing, but again ME not moving forward (one way or the other) is my own fault. You were right SS, I am feeling sorry for myself and it's time I kicked myself in the butt and got on the right track (thanks for the 2X4 upside the head, I needed that).