Hi, I posted a while ago a thread to see if anyone had any insight on my situation. I think the thread sank deep into the forums, so I went ahead and did thread #2.

First, our background. I cheated on my partner in a one night stand. Truth is, I cannot point (or at least, by myself) to where everything went wrong. In fact, I am quite confused and all I know TODAY, is that no matter what I shall never commit these crimes again. I guess I allowed certain things to dominate my rationale and used them to give myself permission to do something that in my mind "was never supposed to carry consequences". I had never been asked why I did those things. In fact, I am afraid of just simply saying "I dont know". I am more afraid of the fact that if I tried to explain, it will turn (at least perceived) into me blaming her for everything. NOT TRUE. I have never found such a great person, my true best friend. But my stupid actions carry up to this day (4 months later) punishment and extreme feelings of guilt and loneliness.

I am truly sorry for this, and while guilt has subsided, and I am working very very hard on getting over that (I think it should help me look better in my partners eyes), a lot of her actions remind me of what a dog I probably am in this world. I want no pity from anyone, I just want to know what should I be doing. I am trying hard to not bring things up that refreshen the wound. I have seen some progress in my partner's attitude towards me, and laughs when I make a joke, and she has allowed (or have I pushed too fast?) a certain physical contact with her. Nothing sexual, just the classic rubdown (I guess that could be bordering toward sexual). I am/have tried to elminiate anything that can send out any mixed signals, but my partners signals are just mixed up.

I feel shes holding back in fear. I feel that, or that her holding back is just a way of her easing her way out. I dont think is that, but *I* get that thought in my mind occasionally. She says she is doing progress, and that she is trying, (somewhat), but I feel like I am just gonna get sloppy seconds if anything at all. Honestly, I have all the patience for her to recuperate and get to a point where we can be great again. Right now she is sooo distant I know not what to do. I said before she truly is my best friend (and in this part of the world, my only friend), and this is hurting me so bad. But I dont let her know, since I caused all of this. I just feel like I lost ALL priviledge of attempting anything that bring us closer. I have not heard her say I love you. Damn, just yesterday I feel like I squeezed an I miss you too, albeit probably half-hearted). I am trying not to sound desperate, but I just fail and fail and fail and fail. And now, she is on her second week away (taking care of her mother situtation), and I am so lost as to what *I* should be doing. We had no had some real US time in 1.5 years since our son was born (we had great sex and get along just great, but while I agree our son should be first, shouldnt there be something for us too? Since we all share our bed, we have had no real private moments). I read his needs and her needs (half way through I started seeing some major progress), I just bought that Surviving an Affair book. I am truly in need of learning, but I feel so different than the textbook cases people seem to refer about. I am ready for us, and for no one else in our life under no circumstances no matter how needy or ignored I am (meaning, I will not trade this fidelity thing for anything).

I never intended my one-night stand to be more than 15 mins of "fun" (much less 4 months of emotional agony). I know I gave myself the "reasons" and permission to do it, but I never wanted her to suffer. It was wrong in all accounts, no doubt. But once it was over, it was over. I want nothing to do with anyone else, yet I was treated like I still was. I see so many BS heres suffering over their WS, and doing all they can to get them back home, yet I want to be home and they just lock themselves in their room when I come in (metaphorally speaking).

I have HS/HN here on my hand. I was about to slip a slick note and put in her mail pile (god, she gets so much mail). I dont know if she has read it, and knowing her, she can read that book while I am at work in a few hours (she might have had, but I have no Idea). The note read like this:

XXX:
Perhaps if we put cetain principles in our lives we could get along better. I miss an emotional bond to you that is as important as the air I breathe. I want to do a lot of things in my life, and I want to do those things with you. Give this book back to me after you read it. If you dont want to read it, just place among my belongings. I hope you choose to read it, though. Much love, Me.



Now, I have no idea if this is a good idea or not. I just dont want to end up with *just* a friend.

Sorry if this is not the right place to post.
thx.

This is a good place to post and your post is very touching. I don't think I have to tell you how much some of us wish our WS's were more like you.

I do not have any advice for you, but I think your idea of the book with the note is a fine one.

coldwater -

I read your story and thought about this post I saw on the recovery board. Check it out and let me know what you think.


here's jerryJerry is a social worker. He, over the years noticed that infidelity was a huge problem and modern help was inadequate. That to many want to immediately focus on forgivness, and not discuss the affair at all. He also noticed that those couples kept coming back, fighting and heading towards divorce, years after an affair. Even though they went to counseling, they still were in trouble. He said it seemed to be cause the affair was quickly dealt with, and that to much stress and responsibility was put on the spouse to accept and forgive and how to never discuss this again.
So he tried a different approach with a couple that he said had papers in motion. So he brought up the affair. Forced the husband to tell the whole story to his wife, every detail he could remember. Then he pushed this guy mentally to ask how he expected his wife to behave after she knew that. The husband thought she should forgive and forget. Jerry asked why should she? Are you so special that she should shoulder this burden for a life time. The couple came back, put thier divorce on hold and realized that they did love each other but that the affair had changed her. That she never had the answers, but was told she was wrong for asking. Her husband was visibly shaken when he realized that his wife had been suffering in silence for years.

Today they are still married. We found Jerry from our church. My husband asked and was told he was tough, mean, hard headed, yet also had an amazing ability to help. So here we are.

Tonight was as before. Hard on my husband. He has been warned that this will be this way for a few sessions.

Jerry asked how the days have gone. He was not surprised that my anger was simmering and hit a head today. He told us that by ommiting details, telling 1/2 truths and hiding behind I don't know's has conditioned me to stay on hyper alert. That every fiber of my being is screaming that he is lying, or hiding something. And since I don't know why he had an affair, I don't have the answers, so I have to stay hyper alert and my mind will race, trying to settle this. That is why it is vital that we come to a viable understanding of why. It is the biggest part of the event, and yet being kept from me.

He also said that my delayed reaction was a form of self preservation. That in the initial revealing of the affair, I was angry, asked questions but was told by a counselor to forgive and move on to quickly. That after the initial counseling, I settled into a comfy little state of denial. As the anniversary date came and went, thoughts started releasing, until we end up to where we are today. He says this is PTSD. He feels that 100% of affair victims suffer from it. That it is such an extreme blow and shock at the base of who we are that it can't just be air brushed into a nicely worded apology and left alone.

He explained that while I know the details, and that is good, since I wanted them, that we have to understand the reaction. He asked my husband "what is it, in Mulberrys personality that allows you to think she would want to stay married to you, after this?"

Hubby said he knows that I love him and that I am a nice person and that I am strong and can handle this.

Jerry pounced. "oh, so are you telling me that since she is so strong and nice, that you can do whatever you want, hurt her and she is supposed to accept the apology as reparation for the harm?"

Hubby was stumped. He was like, "well, no, I mean, ahm, well, ahhh, no she deserves " and he shut up.

Jerry then wanted to know why he took the leap from faithful husband, to in the arms with OW. "Explain to me again, how that first night happened, not the sexual details, but the events leading up to it"

Heard of the party, and how they were flirting. Jerry asked him about flirting with other women. Hubby said no, not really. So what made you flirt with OW and make the decision. Hubby said "I didn't think Mullberry would find out"

Jerry says, you are not getting the question. It makes no difference if Mullberry was ever going to find out or not, what made you basically leave your wife?"

Hubby said "I knew I could get laid"

Jerry is almost frothing at this point "NO, We all know that you wanted the easy sex, that you didn't want Mulberry to find out, what I am asking you is what were you thinking, you were a married man, supposedly in love with your wife and happy, what changed? What made you go from a man in love with his wife, to one who would do something like this?

long long silence. Then those words I don't know.

Jerry said. [censored]. You know damm well what I am getting at. You know damm well what you were doing. You know damm well this didn't just happen. You know damm well having sex with that woman was no mistake. Open up your mind and be honest. Cause your dishonesty is what has you sitting in that chair in the first place.

Hubby said, "I guess I am a bad person, mean"

Jerry, "Nice try, feeling sorry for yourself and putting yourself down, are you hoping I will tell you that you are not a bad or mean person? Aint' happening"

THINK THINK. The words are on the tip of your tounge. There is no way you forget that, especially under these circumstances.
What made you leave your wife?

Long silence again.

Then the words "well, nobody has ever made it so easy, I thought she must really like me and she was so into rodeo and so into me and I thought she was cool.

Jerry sat back. "So, she kisses your [censored], you didn't think she was cool, you thought you were cool, you loved being Mr. Stud"

Hubby "yeah, it was cool to have her want me and it was fun"

Jerry "have you never had sex with anyone but Mulberry?"

Hubby, "I had lots of sex with lots of girls, until I met my wife"

Jerry "so, were you bored, mad, angry at Mullberry?"

Hubby, "No"

Then what was so great about the OW?

"I guess she was into me"

Jerry said "so you fell for the oldest game in the books, some woman kisses your [censored] and you think you are superman, and since nobody will ever know, nobody will get hurt? Boy, your ego just stabbed you in the back and made a fool out of you"

Hubby "yeah, I didn't think I was hurting anyone"

Jerry "boy you are a fool, look at where you are right now, look at what you have done to Mullberry, and you expect to look her in the face, tell her how sorry you are and life should return to the way it was don't you?:

Hubby "well, yeah. I am sorry, I feel like [censored], I can't sleep, I don't want a divorce, if I could take it back I would, but what am I supposed to do"

Jerry "well, for starters, you need to understand, clearly and concisely that you are not some perfect man, worth all the hell you have put people through. You have to realize that just because you want to stay married to Mullberry, and you want life to go back to the way it was, and you want this in the past, means very little.

What you want right now is to hide and deny this happend. You have been expecting Mulberry to stuff this down and hope it all goes away. You expect her to bear the brunt of this pain, in silence. Cause it bothers you so damm much, hell you can't even say the words, so you don't want to say them.

Well, boy, wake up. Cause Mulberry has expectations of her own, and she doesn't have to consider yours at this time. She may well decide that you are not worth it and walk out tomorrow, she may want to rant and rave and kick you in the shins, she may need to be moody and cry and spend time alone. She may be mad at you today, and not tomorrow. But one thing is clear, what you want is not more important then what she wants.

This gets dropped in her lap and you expect immediate forgiveness, you go to a book counselor and sit by why they tell her what she needs to do, how she needs to journal, how she needs to forgive, and what did you think, boy? You probably thought, this is a piece of cake. My wife has to forgive me. And why not, I love her, she is nice girl, she is strong, she can handle this, it was just a mistake. This ain't so bad, I'm not so bad. She has to deal with it.

So boy, where is your effort? Where is your journal? Where in all of this, over the last 2 years do you actually have to take any responsibility for this?"

I actually see the light bulbs going off in my husbands head.

"I guess I haven't done anything, but what am I supposed to do?"

Jerry: "you need to hear every word of anguish, you need to sit by and let her get this out of her system, you need to answer every question, without hesitation, you need to be a man, you need to hold her when you least feel like it, if she is screaming at you in rage, you will not argue back, you will not walk away, you will take it. You will, after any outburst of anger, tell her how sorry you are and how much you love her. You will understand, from this moment on, that you have no defense. There is nothing you can say to fix this. You, boy, are the one who has to accept this. That is your responsibility. You have to understand that she has a need, and that need is to bleed this out. The second you walk out the door to get away from the fury, understand that you are a coward. You stand up and you be the one to journal and you take it. It is still far less then what you are expecting her to take. Don't you ever turn your back on her, or even try to argue, cause boy, you have lost the argument before it even began. Your responsibility is to take the heat you have coming. Can you do that? Are you man enough to take it?"

"Yes, If that is what it takes, yes"

Then he looked at me and says, "this does not give you license to go postal constantly, or to get out of anything, you can't use venting as a bully pulpit either." If he gets mad at you for wrecking his favorite shirt, you can't start bawling and use this as an excuse to get him off your back, understood" "You are allowed to let loose when these feelings come over you, when the visions are about to send your head spinning, when you have a question, you ask it, you can react anyway you want. You can't use physical violence, and lord don't do this in front of the children, but you let him know what you want, don't stew. You will both see that when she feels heard, listened to and when you stand there and take it, how it will actully be the two of you again. The need to obsess and let loose will subside, cause you know you are allowed to, it is ok to let this out. Get rid of the anger. Half the time people are told to suck it up, deal with it, and what does that get you besides anger? This is between two people. If they love each other, they have to bleed out the infection. It has to be lanced and purged. Once we understand that it is normal and healthy way to deal with it, it actully subsides. When she (me) realizes that you (him) are going to stand there and hear her out, and answer to her, she will slowly feel safe again. She won't feel alone with her thoughts and fears, you two will be sharing the pain. It works. It will slowly evaporate. Then we go to work on forgiveness.

Then he told us to face each other and hold hands. He told us that we have been through on hell of a wreck, and that since we are still here, we obviously want to stay together. But to be happy together, we have to purge demons. And purging demons is ugly business. No sense in trying to cover it up in pretty words of love and forgiveness when anger is still over-riding everything.
That if we love each other, we can get through this together. That we do have what it takes and that it is ok to really beat this subject to death. That by being there for each other, will bring back the love and empathy for each other.

That is somewhat similar to what I am going thru, except that I am actually trying to stay away from being too fast. But Im like an old dog, I know no other way of living. Yeah 2 weeks after it seemed like forever, and perhaps then was too unrealistic (damn right unrealistic). But what demons do I have to purge? That I am a dog? That I saw an opportunity to have totally anonymous sex? I deal with this constantly. The shame (not just guilt, because I am overcoming that part) that I have brought pain, and that I have no honor. There is really not much (at least it seems to me) that I can bring to the surface (hence why I have chosen to not dwell in the past and work on this from NOW on). If she asked, I will tell her anything I can. I am her here to be her shoulder and "take it like a man", yet I am afraid to not be used enough. My I love you's at the end of calls or before "good nights" lead to piercing silence. My "extracurricular activity" is destroying me.

Is this something that I just have to wait? I am doing that, but, okay, is like, not knowing where you at, and no one knows how to tell you where (plus you are afraid to ask that one person because you feel it might be inappropriate since they did not asked for it first). Only thing I am doing is some sort of reverse Plan A, yet I feel like she is Planning B at the same time. 2-3 months is ashort time to say anything, but I figure at 4 months, I would get something more than a "it takes time". Hell yeah it takes times AND work. I just dont see her work (in this aspect)--maybe she is doing this internally?. I am trying to find time to be just with her, yet our 1.5 year old is well... very needy of his mom. Not a bad thing in general, but she is not available for that US time that often. Hell, since he was born, I have had no US time (just us without worrying about the kid or doing something without "oh, he is crying"). Not a single minute. She is a fantastic mother, I just want to be her "baby" once again one day, but dont know how to get there. Or at least, have any clues as to what I am doing.

For example, when I was a little kid, at the end of the day, I asked my mom what grade she would give me that day (for behaving, being a good kid, etc)... I got a few C's and D's over a few years, but I just needed to know I am doing OK. The feedback. Same now with work, I feel like something is wrong, if I dont know if my job is being what is expected. Not on a constant basis as when I was a kid, but I work as an estimator, and when I dont get a few projects a month, I feel I am lagging behind or something, when its just the way things are. But in this relationship, I have NO clue other than it takes time.

Im sorry for venting, just right now I am trying to find some counselor that has space in their practice and three so far (closest ones) are not. Its been 4 months, but feels like 4 years. I have NO emotional need being met other than company. Like I said, I dont want sex because is too soon, I acknowledge that, but I still ache for some admiration other than "good for you" and other things that are just not anywhere.

I am not going anywhere... just please turn on the lights.

Affairs don't "just happen". There is a reason why you had the A. For some reason, you don't want to tell anyone. What is the real reason?

You have decided that the A was bad and it shouldn't have happened, but you haven't figured out "why" you had the A. Your posts say simply that you wanted "15 minutes of fun"--that is BS (and I don't mean betrayed spouse). What was the real reason? What were you not getting from the M?

As to the BS, all I can say is that having an A is grounds for a divorce. If she wants one, she can get one. On the other hand, she should either stay in the M and work on improving it, or she should get out. Is she perhaps glad to have an excuse not to have sex with you?

I'm going to make some guesses:
(1) Your W wasn't spending any time with you since the baby was born.
(2) your W is investing all of her energy into the child.
(3) Your sex dropped off after the baby was born.
(4) You felt neglected.
(5) You met up with a prostitute and had sex, but it wasn't particularly fulfilling.

Am I close?

I would say you are close. A little bit of 1,2,4,5-not quite 5 because I did not slept with a prostitute. Sex drives were not an issue at all. Other reasons might be the fact that at the time (6 months ago), I was under a lot of stress due to working for a raise and doing somethings that NEEDED to be done. It was supposed to be a period of 2 months or so. During this time, after work, I just brought work home 3-4 days out of 5. I was busting my [censored] to get this raise. She was supposed to take care of our son during most of that time as per plans, so I didnt had to get a second job to keep us in the black. The house was not quite organized (which I did most of that due to me being the one that got bothered by it the most), but over all, I was happy. We were talking about future, buying a house, planning trips, and I can sincerely say I meant all that we talked about. I was heading out for it. She then got a job. A rather unusual but somewhat cool job (I got mixed feelings about it as is in a gambling site and it involves her to play games from time to time). So no I was tired, she was playing, the house was unkept somewhat, and she was now working all sorts of odds hours late into the night... so yes.... THANKS... it took me 4 frikken months to just have someone online whom I have no idea who he is to come and tell me what went wrong (in a way). I just had to hold on to what I was doing at the time. It was for us. But about 2 days before I went to my boss and negotiated a 25% raise and a new position/title (talk about stressful, took like 2 hours just there looking at each other... im insistant) I read this ad online of someone offering some booty. Without much thought, I pretty much contacted this person (not a prostitute, but truth be told, whore or not, is still the same wrong).

This is pretty much what happened. I dont know if I am blaming or I am finding what bothered me. I find this woman fantastic and great to be around. But when this was happening, I failed. I could say that we were analogous to driving a car but not paying attention. But I crashed.

Maybe after all that I rationalized that it was fair for me to do that. Maybe I thought, that if no one finds out, what could happen? But maybe I just felt impulsive to do something because a bit of both.


Glad? NO. I just do not believe so. It cannot be possible. She never suspected that anything bad was about to happen. Neither did I, until I saw how easy it was to do what I did.

After my act, I just felt disgusted. I did something bad to someone I swore to protect from hurt. I thought, what would she say? Well, I am finding out.

I'm not a psychic. It is simply that most affairs follow a pattern. You seem to be a good guy that made a mistake. (Serial adulterers are a whole different issue. But, you don't sound like one.)

One problem (and there are many) with an A is that it is such a major event that it overshadows all the other problems in the M. The A becomes the center of the M. But, if the problems that led to the A aren't addressed, then the M is dead. (The lack of sex is a great big red warning light that there are serious problems in the M.)

Recovery consists of about 3 parts:

(a) Ending the A
(b) Fixing whatever problems in the M that led to the A
(c) Helping the BS recover from the pain caused by the A.

(a) has to happen first. The order of (b) and (c) doesn't matter. Many times, they happen together. (a) has happened (Congrats!). But, for some reason you and she are "stuck".

The problem in the M is often the failure of the WS to communicate his/her problems with the M to BS. (And, some BSs prefer not to hear about the problems in the M, so you end up in this weird world where WS doesn't want to talk and BS doesn't want to listen.) "Recovered" FWSs will tell you that their biggest mistake was not going to BS before the A and saying something like, "This M is awful. Either we get help and get it fixed, or I'm leaving."

You said, "She never suspected that anything bad was about to happen. Neither did I, until I saw how easy it was to do what I did." Read that a couple of times. You and she are MARRIED. She is supposed to know you better than anyone else in the world. But, this sounds like you and her are strangers. Were you "pretending" that everything was wonderful? Did she "stick her head in the sand" and ignore everything?

These are not unusual problems. Young married couples tend not to appreciate how much work it is to keep a M alive. (Too much TV and movies.) The fact is that the H and the W change during a M. So, the H and W have to continually talk and discuss the "things that matter most in life" so that they understand each other.

You have got to do something to get your M back on track. You need to find a MC. If she won't go, then go alone. There is a great thing on this board called the "Emotional Needs Questionaire". It is a great way to learn more about each other.

About "blame"--this is a fine line. It is your fault you had the A, not the BS. On the other hand, the problems that led up to the A belong to you and her.

Good luck...keep posting. There are many very good people on this board that can help.

Just made my docs appointment for tonight... thats a relief in a way, just knowing that I will work on it seems to feel nice.

(a) Theres no ongoing affair. There was never any intention of it being on in the first place. I would go as far as to tell that despite what I did, I went that particular route because I wanted no other attachment to anyone else. What a gentleman. I guess it could be worse and we could be battling on how to end it, though--but I had no need to feel loved by anyone else.

(b)This is where I want to be heading now. I am thinking of ways I can bring up with my partner a brainstorm where we can put this all in the table and put it up together together. Reminds me of my grandpa and whenever we had issues with raising a teenaged boy (me) and he would sit us ALL down and no one dared to move even after a couple of hours of talking. The next day (or day after that), everything was better.

(c) all she has to tell me is what she wans to do. But I figure that she is lacking initiative to do some things.

This was also an issue for me, since to be honest, after I came home, I didnt want to be the "supervisor" and make sure this was done and the other things as well... If I see the dirty dishes, Id clean them. But after a time of me cleaning them, but her making them dirty, I got tired. But she still kept up piling them up. It got ridiculous at times. Shes out of town now, and the house is pretty much sparkling. I can feel that but not understand why cant she do the same. The kid is not the issue (it was like that before), but it certainly made it worse. This is a VERY big issue for me, my dad blamed this on my mom as well for his affairs (which ended up in divorce and a destroyed family with 3 kids), but looking back, my dad had no reason to blame that on my mom (I guess he was really being anal about it). Me, though, I do believe is real, but I am afraid of bringing up (anymore, specially at this timeframe) this particular point.

My relationship was not awful. Not at all. It was just not being worked properly (from a somewhat still-being-debated-on-my-mind-point-of-view) and I messed up rather than bring the issue that I believed could be put aside. Add to that the fact that we are both computer nerds and her new work. Honestly, looking back, I felt like if she just didnt care to do that, then I could do something. But it wasnt meant to be like that. That was just the very predictible, but unseen by me consequences... Or at least thats how I rationalize this.

Honestly, the reasons are there... but they are sooo blurry and I cannot say I have a plan to discuss them because they are vague... not enough I feel. While I think domestic support had some to do with this, I feel that is a pretty lame excuse... perhaps the lamest of all the lamest. blergh..

Is it okay for me to take the first step and approach the beast I created? Or should she do it, and I just keep working on myself (I am enjoying the exercise, and today I am seeing my new therapist, and other things).

I love this board... but took me 3 months after find this to post because I was afraid of being ignored. Thats why I didnt released much info. I did in two other boards, and I still have no answer on those... So I have no idea what to make of it.

Thanks a lot... I hope others from both sides can come and express some opinions... I promise to keep it all tidy in this threadd..

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You may have done something referred to politely as "mind rape". That is, you start thinking your W is an uncaring b*tch based upon your assumption that she can read your mind. E.g., "Can't she see the dishes need to be washed? Sure she can. She is deliberately ignoring the problem. She knows how I feel about this. She doesn't care about me. I'm just a paycheck to her, etc. etc. etc." Pretty soon, you've convinced yourself that you deserve to go out an f*** somebody else.

Resolving "problems in the M" is essential. Disputes shouldn't be ignored by either you or her. E.g., you have a legitimate need to have the house tidy. She should not ignore your need, and you should not let it drop until you and she resolve it. You and she have to learn how to identify disagreements and resolve problems without "killing" each other.

(If you and your W stick with this, you will learn how to resolve these disputes. Read the section on "resolving conflicts" at http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5515_qa.html.)

The reason that you didn't getting many responses on the motherboard is that you are a newbie WS here. We had a big discussion about this a while back. Many of the BSs are in agony, and sometimes they respond to a WS from their broken hearts. We may have lost some WSs because the BSs piled on. So, the BSs take it easy on the first posts by a newbie WS.

Try to make your posts a little shorter, your questions a little more specific and you should get lots of help. There are a lot of good people who can help.

If you and your W hang in there, you can have a beautiful M where both you and she have rich, meaningful lives together. It can be done, but it takes work and patience.

Coldwater

Your story is my H's - or it would be if you chopped the last eighteen years off of our tale. You see, you're lucky that things have come to light early on; this gives you a chance to get yourself straight before you do really severe damage to yourself and your family.

My H did what you did. He had a happy marriage, wife and small baby...wife tired and asking for help and emotional support just as he was feeling affronted at losing her full time and attention. He was working hard, feeling pressured, and being asked to give to his wife when he felt left out and unappreciated was more than he could cope with. One day, coming back from a stressful meeting, he passed near a red-light district and thought "Why not? I'm entitled to stress-relief. TogetherAlone will be busy bathing the wretched baby when I get home, and won't have time to give to me... No-one will know..."

He was shocked with himself. Didn't tell me. Then six months later found himself doing it again. And again. And calling up 'service' from hotel rooms when away on business. Addictive, out of control. Struggling to maintain a connection to his nice wife and respectable life; the marriage becoming inevitably more distant despite his wife's attempts to work out what was wrong. Then he started an affair with the office receptionist, so he could pour out his anger at his wife and the marriage and the pressure he was under. When that ended he found another 'friend', and then another online friend; he was having unprotected sex all over the place, as well as with his unsuspecting wife. Then he fell into the clutches of a woman who was wild and out of control, and who was clearly going to expose him to his whole family - she didn't care who she hurt, she just wanted the romantic sensation of it all. And by now he was behaving with such coldness and arrogance that his wife had lost all loyalty to him; she announced that she couldn't live this weird, inexplicable life, and she was leaving. His world fell apart. He worked up the courage to tell her everything.

But seventeen years had gone by. The damage he had done to himself over all that time could not be righted quickly. Perhaps it was permanent damage? He is currently living on borrowed time. His kids will soon be gone for good, and his wife is assessing what she has and whether it's worth staying for.

Because the fact is that he started off weak, and has made himself into a wreck of arrogance and entitlement, and even if he never cheats again, may not ever be anyone who can exist in a respectful, tolerant marriage.

What he has done, Coldwater, is to work in IC to find out why he did it. And he has slowly come to realise that he was arrogant, cocky, had a sense of entitlement and a lack of respect for others. He expected his mind to be read, and interpreted each failure to meet his unspoken needs as 'evidence' that his efforts were unappreciated. Jimmy Mac is right on the money on that one.

Frankly, that's what YOU need to do. You're trying to mend this, but your expectations of your wife, your sense of entitlement, your contempt for her and your jealousy, your indignation at not being treated as you believe you should have been - all speak of someone who has been raised in a way that makes you inflexible and intolerant. You need to fix YOU. And you need to help HER.

I've said this to many, and I'll say it to you. You need to grow up.

Growing up is not easy, when you don't do it at the right time. Have you got the guts?

TogetherAlone

Ive got the guts... But I just got them ripped out. I came back from my counselor about an hour ago (whom I chose from a list of ones from my employee life management program). I got told that my disorders are impulsive and addiction based. Her specialty happens to be sexual addictions and compulsive/impulsive behaviours (out of luck because I had no idea). Basically, I got appointments and have to prepare a plan of attack to my problems. I told her I would raise this up with my partner. But what do I tell her? Oh, honey, check it out, I got a problem that causes me to cheat on impulse. Im waiting for her to call me tonight (shes out of town until monday) and see what can I tell her or how to lay it out on her. Sucks because Ive been talking about my fears of stuff like this and she says its okay, its nothing. Now she will say that I gave this thing to myself and that I am a hypochondriac.

In a way she is right. But my self of entitlement came from the fact that I had been saying things for YEARS (2+) but I was never taken seriously in those matters (which happened to be important to me) or just plain ignored. After all, one day, when she came home I literally drew many BIG, DARK arrows with a sharpie on pieces of 8.5 x 11 and pointed to everything I found that I had fixed 2 days before and was messed up while I wasnt there... Im talking about dishes, 2 diapers, 8-10 cups of dry soda on her desk, etc. She came home and smiled, and picked up the arrows. Maybe I was quiet, but she knew. No excuse for my action, but honestly, I was fed up and put it aside.

I pretty much got kicked out of the office because once I opened up about my life and last 4 months, I had SO MUCH TO SAY!!! I have had this on my head for 4 months in which I talked to NO ONE about this... so it was due.

I am not arrogant, and always put others before me, all I wanted was a refuge where to warm my bones. I have tons of friends who love me and I am kind of a "golden child" in my family.

I guess my IC 40 or so sessions plus extra therapy will now show some other things.

What a mess.

Call MB and ask to have a phone counseling session with Steve Harley @ MB. He w/b worth every penny and you won't feel like you have been diagnosed by a textbook.

Please read His Needs/Her Needs. Take the Emotional Needs questionnaire both as yourself and your partner. Then ask your partner take it as herself. It w/b interesting to compare and identify what each of your individual top 5 ENs are.

Keep posting here. Please read Believer's post to you again. Very insightful.

L.

How about the truth? Tell her what happened with the IC.

One of the things you have to get over is worrying about her reaction. Truth is the truth, reality is reality.