I've read your posts to Dana and was hoping you could help me find some peace.

I am (obviously) in the process of divorce. Mediation is scheduled in one month. This is our second attempt as mediator didn't show up for last one in May.

I'm 51 and this summer we'll be married 22 years. I have been a stay at home mom while daughter was growing up. Six years ago I discovered I have a genetic disorder that will eventually lead to blindness-one eye is gone now-and will be crippled. I've had 4 eye surgeries this year and had to quit a 3 month crappy job in January because I could no longer see.

My stbx doesn't want to pay me alimony. I have been labeled disabled by my state and they've tried diligently as have I, to find me a job. I don't want disability payments and couldn't live on that amount anyway. I have a B.S. in Bus Adm and with years of no employment, I'm overlooked as either too educated/old/out of work too long. It's frustrating beyond what I can describe. I can't work at night because I can't see to drive at night.

My atty and his atty now are preparing for depositions with my retina doctor and rheumatologist. It won't be pretty but very expensive. How this cheating, lying, alcoholic, theif pathetic excuse of a man could live with himself is beyond me.

His income has been in the low 6 figures for many years and we've had no debt since 1992 when we paid off our house. We lived very frugally with few vacations, rare Christmas gifts, no anniversary gift and most birthdays were forgotten. I suspect much money went to alcohol, prostitutes and buying other men's wives jewelry but not THAT much. He claims we have no money in the bank(I was never allowed to know what he made or what he did with it and only got an inkling at tax time.) My atty agreed he's hidden it and suggested his atty told him how (scum bag atty) and the money it would take to find it would probably be close to the amount he's hidden.

I live in the state of Tennessee. Is it possible that he could get by without paying me any alimony? His atty claimed in a letter than since I was getting such a sizeable settlement (I don't call it sizeable) that I shouldn't get alimony. My stbx is getting the same amount-a little more really because my atty said we could only count 60% of 401k so I really get 30%. His atty suggested paying me $1000 month until my half of the assets were paid to me-I would almost 70! How could I buy a house and live on $1000 month! Even my atty said that was ridiculous as did my stbx.

I have been under such stress that I constantly keep a searing headache and my neck is so stiff I can hardly turn my head.

My atty says that his adultery and other foolishness really doesn't matter anymore. It's more of a separation of assets as our child is 19.

Am I up the creek with out a paddle?

jbh,

I am not sunny but will add my 2 cents worth here, if you don't mind!!!

I live in SD, was married 21 years to active duty AF. I asked for alimony and I got it!!! My lawyer says that that doesn'thappen often in my state.

I wrote a letter to the judge (we never had to appear before one) that stated that we had chosen for me to stay home with the kids as he was active duty and gone a great deal of the time and that we wanted the kids to have one parent that was always there. I really pushed the we part of all of this. I also stated that I had never went to college as i had asked x on 3 different occassions to go with me to sign up for classes and he did not support me in this. I also put in the letter that I supported him and his career and that I felt that was worth some $$$. I will receive alimony til I die or re-marry and as I haven't had a date in the 3 years that I've been divorced. I also asked for the right to take out my own life insurance policy on the x as if something were to happen to him, I lose $$$. He also has to maintain a seperate life insurance policy that names only my 3 kids on it, cannot have new w (OW) on it, also had lawyer put in their that my maiden name maybe taken back at anytime, this was so I didn't have to spend $$ in court fees later. He also has to maintain a life insureance policy on me which list my three kids til the youngest in 19 or out of school. And I also get half of his retirement from the military, if I had any type of retirement plan he could of taken part of it, but I didn't. He can retire anytime but is staying for 30 years which puts him in 09 the same year my youngest daughter graduates HS so the child support will stop. Shucks I'll anly get to collect one of them!!!! I forgot I also asked for a cost of living increase to my alimony so every year I get a 3% raise, it's gone up $50 bucks in the 3 years.

It doesn't seem like much til I write it out like this. I didn't do it to be mean, I asked for what I thought that I deserved, the retirement comes from the AF but the rest is from the 21 years that I loved and supported him. It's not my fault that he chose someone else, I wasn't going to change my style of life for that and didn't think that my kids should either.

Like I said my 2 cents worth, educate yourself gain as much knowledge as possible, find things that will benefit you, protect yourself and you daughter, just because she is 19 doesn't mean that he should not help support her, she still needs a place to call home, have him maintain that for her and you, it never hurts to ask for the moon I did, but I knew what the $ amount was that I was going to settle for and I was only $200 off!!!!

Best of luck to you.

Dawn <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> [color:"purple"] [/color]

daybreak
Thank you for your reassuring words. It helps to know that you were treated fairly.

When we went to the first mediation, my stbx asked that the divorce be stopped and we go to counseling. Mind you we've seen 3 different counselors during our marriage. None of the 3 knew the truth and I didn't know the truth until a few years ago. When I said no, he became angry and the "no alimony" letter arrived in the mail. I know it's a ploy. He knows I'm terrified and it's a sad testiment to my faith but I am.

My atty told me for our daughter's sake to befriend him. My daughter thinks that's stupid because she wants nothing to do with her father. She never even refers to him as her father but calls him "him." She only answers his phone calls when she needs money. I did my best but I just in the last month learned that I don't like him. I can count on one hand the number of people I've met in my life that I could say that about. If he were a co-worker or neighbor, I would wave, smile and walk on. Deep in my soul he makes me sick and I can't pretend anymore that he's not disgusting. I feel so much like a fake when I do.

I get the feeling that my atty may not be all on my side. It's nothing he has said but just a gut feeling. Kinda like the old boy's club, if you know what I mean.

I am so thankful that you mentioned at cost of living increase. I'll be sure to ask about that. My mother said she would make sure my daughter is educated if he cops out which I really doubt he would do. I think it may soothe his conscience.

I decided last week that it wasn't necessary for me to talk to him anymore. He called constantly wanting to do this and that around the house. I would get that passive agressive treatment that dry drunks can dish out. He called when I had just gotten yet again another rejection letter for a job and I had called in a favor that was uncomfortable for me to get this job. My computer crashed, I got the rejection letter and then he called. It was too much.

The good thing about the deposition is my retina doctor is going through a divorce too and we swap stories. He's highly offended that my stbx is refusing to pay alimony. He told me that if I ever went back to stbx, he would fire me as a patient. My rheumatologist is disgusted with the whole situation as well. It was a blessing that these two men agreed to be my phsicians as they are highly respected and virtually impossible to see. When you have really weird things wrong with you, doctors seem to be thrilled to have the unusual. They tell me they see the same thing day in and day out and I'm a challenge to diagnose and treat. One said I cause him to use his education to the fullest.

It's funny you said ask for the moon. I was watching Oprah the other day and they were talking about granting people's greatest desires. One lady got a house and the others were upset that they didn't. Oprah told them to make their dreams grander. Go for the optimum.

Thank you daybreak. What a sweet person you are to share your story. I'm sorry to ramble on but it feels good to get this down and feel that it relieves the pressure. You've given me hope! God Bless You!

jph,

I always share as this helps people gain knowledge, knowledge is impowerment.

You could ask for in the decree that he pay for daughters college or at least put his name on the loans with hers and that yours not be anywhere on them.

I must ask if you have fibromylasia, I t hink that that is how it is spelled. My 20 yo daughter was digmpsed with it 2 years ago. You mention a rheumatologist, and that is who finally dignosed hers. Write down everything that you want from the x everything even if it's way out there cause you always can negotiate to what it is that you really want.

It is hard to be dumped after so many years, sapecially knowing that we gave our all to the marriage that we vowed to live by. But it does get better!!!! You are already starting that process, specially by saying NO to his phone calls and always wanting to come around. Sounds like he may have some control issues!!!!

MB is an awesome site, it saved my sanity as my friends didn't really know what it was I was going thru, but having friends here on MB that have been through the same made a world of difference for me!!!!

Dawn <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

jbh,

Career suggestion for you. Sales allows you to earn as much or more than your degree will. Face to face sales is a problem because a lot of the skill in face-to-face involves eye sight. Telemarketing is NOT sales,by the way. But there are sales jobs for high end things that can be done totally by telephone.

I work for a educational company doing "admissions counseling". The clients are already subscribers to the education, or have expressed a direct interest in getting involved in the program. So I'm not even "cold calling".

While the skill does not involve eye sight, it does involve the ability to "hear" body language and ask the questions that help the client see an appropriate solution for themselves. And with the company I work for, eye sight is crucial for the first little bit to learn the products.

What I make varies from week to week, but I'm tracking to earn more than triple what I would be making as a tenured teacher (degreed job).

daybreak
No I don't have fibromy... The doctors aren't sure exactly what I have. At first (I've seen 8 doctors) it was thought I had VKH. It's an extremely rare disorder known better in the east. With it you lose the ability to see, hear, walk, talk, and swallow. Frightening. Now it's thought I may have Ankylosing Spondolitis. It's not as frightening. As one doctor told me, "What you have is not terminal, it will just make your life miserabale." My retinas become filled with holes and where there are holes, I don't see. I have regular steroid injections in my eyes to keep the retinas intact and the holes under control. Eventually that will not be as effective. I also have bad arthritis. The two are connected and that's why I see the rheumatologist.

I should have left my stbx when I got pregnant with our daughter. He was a momma's boy in the most frightening sense of the sickness. I didn't have anything to do with her and it drove her insane. I was the one thing in her life she couldn't control. She was mentally unstable and everyone was afraid to do anything about it. She passed away in 1997 (thank You God) and his affair began with her double about the same time. He's afraid of both of them and even though his mother is gone, she still rules his life. The hatred he wasn't allowed to bestow on her, he freely gives to me and daughter. We're safe, she wasn't.

Kayla..your job sounds like a dream. Would you mind sharing suggestions for similar companies or your company if it does business in the south? My background is in banking but the banks only want fresh out of school. Thank you for the suggestion. I can't work a commission only job as I need to steady income. I did just get my realtor's license when stbx filed and had to quit. You can't sell real estate when you can't see to drive at night..in fact I'm not supposed to drive at all...

Relax, JPH, in many states alimony is a given if the marriage is longer than a certain period. This is 10 years in my state.
Your X may choose to trade the alimony for a great settlement in the house, or something like that.
And adultry doesn't matter in divorce.
I'm also finding out now how much more money my X hid than I thought. And there's nothing I can do about it.

Dear JPH,

No you are not up a creek. Your attorney may be correct in that to find the money you would spend as much as you find or lose money if your stbx spent all the cash.

Being that you are disabled and also that you were a stay at home mom, it is likely that you will get alimony.

Do not accept anything less than "rehabilitative" for several years. This means that you should get 3 years of alimony intended to let you retrain or go back to school in order to be eligible to work again. At the most you should get permanent alimony because of your age/condition.

The 50% settlement is the bare minimum of what your hubby owes you - that is your due. It is not excessive, it is not extra, it is your fair share.

And Adultery DOES count for alimony in most states so I don't know what your lawyer is feeding you - if you have concrete proof - like pictures or a PI report, then you should shove it down his throat.

I'm going to go look for Tennesse law.

V.

OK below is the Tennessee code relating to spousal support. Read it for yourself - memorize it! This is the law. The only thing that you might want to do is to look up case law at your local county law library to see if these laws are outdated. Sometimes there is a "trend" in court to rule according to case law (which is basically books of past cases in which certain statutes were ruled against or ruled for and the cases used for that ruling are now part of what the judge will use for a determination of your case...)

tennessee domestic relations statutes

(d) (1) (A) Spouses have traditionally strengthened the family unit through private arrangements whereby one (1) spouse focuses on nurturing the personal side of the marriage, including the care and nurturing of the children, while the other spouse focuses primarily on building the economic strength of the family unit. This arrangement often results in economic detriment to the spouse who subordinated such spouse's own personal career for the benefit of the marriage. It is the public policy of this state to encourage and support marriage, and to encourage family arrangements that provide for the rearing of healthy and productive children who will become healthy and productive citizens of our state.


(B) The general assembly finds that the contributions to the marriage as homemaker or parent are of equal dignity and importance as economic contributions to the marriage. Further, where one (1) spouse suffers economic detriment for the benefit of the marriage, the general assembly finds that the economically disadvantaged spouse's standard of living after the divorce should be reasonably comparable to the standard of living enjoyed during the marriage or to the post-divorce standard of living expected to be available to the other spouse, considering the relevant statutory factors and the equities between the parties.


(C) It is the intent of the general assembly that a spouse who is economically disadvantaged relative to the other spouse, be rehabilitated whenever possible by the granting of an order for payment of rehabilitative, temporary support and maintenance. To be rehabilitated means to achieve, with reasonable effort, an earning capacity that will permit the economically disadvantaged spouse's standard of living after the divorce to be reasonably comparable to the standard of living enjoyed during the marriage, or to the post- divorce standard of living expected to be available to the other spouse, considering the relevant statutory factors and the equities between the parties. Where there is relative economic disadvantage and rehabilitation is not feasible in consideration of all relevant factors, including those set out in this subsection (d), the court may grant an order for payment of support and maintenance on a long-term basis or until the death or remarriage of the recipient except as otherwise provided in subdivision (a)(3). An award of periodic alimony may be made either in addition to a rehabilitation award, where a spouse may be partially rehabilitated as defined in this subdivision (d)(1)(C), or instead of a rehabilitation award, where rehabilitation is not feasible. When appropriate, the court may also award transitional alimony as provided in subdivision (d)(1)(D).


Rehabilitative support and maintenance is a separate class of spousal support as distinguished from alimony in solido, periodic alimony, and transitional alimony. An award of rehabilitative, temporary support and maintenance shall remain in the court's control for the duration of such award, and may be increased, decreased, terminated, extended, or otherwise modified, upon a showing of a substantial and material change in circumstances. Rehabilitative support and maintenance shall terminate upon the death of the recipient. Such support and maintenance shall also terminate upon the death of the payor unless otherwise specifically stated. The recipient of the support and maintenance shall have the burden of proving that all reasonable efforts at rehabilitation have been made and have been unsuccessful.


(D) Transitional alimony means a sum of money payable by one (1) party to, or on behalf of, the other party for a determinate period of time. Transitional alimony shall terminate upon the death of the recipient and as provided in subdivision (a)(3) which provision shall apply to transitional alimony. Such support and maintenance shall also terminate upon the death of the payor unless otherwise specifically stated. The court may at the time of entry of the order to pay transitional alimony, order that it may terminate upon the occurrence of other conditions such as, but not limited to, the remarriage of the party receiving transitional alimony. Transitional alimony shall be nonmodifiable unless the parties otherwise agree in an agreement incorporated into the initial order of divorce, legal separation or order of protection or the court otherwise orders in the initial order or divorce, legal separation or order of protection. Transitional alimony is awarded when the court finds that rehabilitation is not necessary, but the economically disadvantaged spouse needs assistance to adjust to the economic consequences of a divorce, legal separation or other proceeding where spousal support may be awarded, such as a petition for an order of protection.


(E) In determining whether the granting of an order for payment of support and maintenance to a party is appropriate, and in determining the nature, amount, length of term, and manner of payment, the court shall consider all relevant factors, including:


(i) The relative earning capacity, obligations, needs, and financial resources of each party including income from pension, profit sharing or retirement plans and all other sources;


(ii) The relative education and training of each party, the ability and opportunity of each party to secure such education and training, and the necessity of a party to secure further education and training to improve such party's earning capacity to a reasonable level;

(iii) The duration of the marriage;

(iv) The age and mental condition of each party;

(v) The physical condition of each party, including, but not limited to, physical disability or incapacity due to a chronic debilitating disease;

(vi) The extent to which it would be undesirable for a party to seek employment outside the home because such party will be custodian of a minor child of the marriage;

(vii) The separate assets of each party, both real and personal, tangible and intangible;

(viii) The provisions made with regard to the marital property as defined in § 36-4-121;

(ix) The standard of living of the parties established during the marriage;

(x) The extent to which each party has made such tangible and intangible contributions to the marriage as monetary and homemaker contributions, and tangible and intangible contributions by a party to the education, training or increased earning power of the other party;

(xi) The relative fault of the parties in cases where the court, in its discretion, deems it appropriate to do so; and

(xii) Such other factors, including the tax consequences to each party, as are necessary to consider the equities between the parties.

(2) An award of rehabilitative, temporary support and maintenance shall remain in the court's control for the duration of such award, and may be increased, decreased, terminated, extended, or otherwise modified, upon a showing of substantial and material change in circumstances. Rehabilitative support and maintenance shall terminate upon the death of the recipient. Such support and maintenance shall also terminate upon the death of the payor unless otherwise specifically stated. The recipient of the support and maintenance shall have the burden of proving that all reasonable efforts at rehabilitation have been made and have been unsuccessful.

Let me know if you don't understand this - I've "bolded" some relevant paragraphs for you.

V.

Newly..thank you for your assistance. I have been told over and over again to fight for all I can now because I only get this one chance. I know money is hidden. At least I know I'll not have to stand before God and give an account as to why I cheated my spouse out of marital funds.

Sunny..Thank you so much. I too had done some research on Tennessee alimony through google and did find (E) and was encouraged. Given that, the aggressive behavior and disregard of my condition by his attorney and the ridiculous settlement offer he made, gave me pause. It seemed his arrogance indicated that my chances were not so good. Both attys will get quite a ear full when they speak to my physicians. My stbx has never understood the seriousness of my condition and says he thinks it will go away. Duh!

I have had two restraining orders against my husband and one where the affair was mentioned. He pled guilty to both and admitted to the affair in court on the second one. I didn't know about the affair during the first. While there was no court reporter there, the fact that he pled guilty to the content of the restraining order seems sufficient to me. He also has a public intoxication arrest on his record. I have a phone record where he contacted an escort service. He also sells products to the county in which we live and has an "arrangement" with the purchasing dept there. They allow him to write the bids for his products so he is awarded a great majority. He would get all but it would cause eyebrows to be raised. I'm sure this would make the headlines in our town if known. He also gave a county employee money and tickets are given to purchasing department employees for local football games. Of course he now says I'm making this up. I have confronted him on this matter for years even spoke with our pastor about it. The evidence would bear this out as the bids were written specifically identical to the contents and specifications unique to his products.

Is his atty just blowing smoke thinking I'm a shrinking violet? At the last mediation that my atty encouraged me to befriend my stbx for daughter's sake. He then told me how expensive it would be to fight the alimony. I felt as if her was encouraging me to return to the marriage as it might be the lesser of the two evils. I can't. I would rather be dead. What greater misery could there be than living with a drunk...

Thank you again for your assistance. I guess I was making it bleaker that it actually is. I can't imagine what kind of person would put a disabled person out on their own with no regard to their well being..especially when he claims to "love" me.

JPH,

Your husband's attorney is hired to represent your husband's best interest - his client. That is his or her duty to represent the best interest of the client. It is NOT the "best interest" of your stbx to pay alimony, therefore his lawyer is going to make sure that your stbx gets what he wants. He is not being paid to feel sorry for you or your condition.

I remember crying in an elevator after signing custody papers which gave my ex#2 full weeks with my dd while I got the weekends. I signed because I was out of money after being hounded with custody litigation for four years! I was even more upset that my ex's attorney was in the SAME elevator with me - him the object of every hateful thought I could think about someone. The lawyer turned to me and simply said "I'm really sorry". You see in spite of what he may have personally thought, it was his job to represent my litigious spiteful ex in what the ex wanted...

As far as blowing smoke - yes the attorney will definitely try and bluff you - it's part of the game they play. What you have to try to do is line up your evidence - hard evidence that is admissible in court. Ask your attorney what is and is not admissible, because it is your job to prove that you are incapacitated and the court has very specific criteria to what level of evidence will prove that. Then it will be your turn to tell the oposing attorney or to convince your stbx that you WILL present this and he WILL pay, and he can either save some money by signing without a trial, or he can pay his attorney a couple of grand to have a trial - either way you WILL win.

It will cost a lot of money to have your Dr.s there to testify in court for a trial. They have to be there for the opposing attorney to cross examine, and you will have to pay them for their time. Now, imagine what could happen if you pay the Drs. to be there, and oops suddenly your stbx doesn't show up. You still have to pay the Dr. for his time. You still have to pay the attorney for his time. It is in your best interest sometimes to try and leverage a win. It will be in your stbx's best interest to try and delay things and cost you more money until you give up and accept his offer.

Your attorney is being paid by the hour - never forget that. He will be very willing to listen to all your stories about how your stbx has been a horrible person and how he cheats the county, etc. After all, he is getting paid to listen to this. Have you asked him what evidence you would need to prove this? Have you asked him if this is relevant? Have you asked him if the judge plays golf with the other county employees involved? Do you see where I'm going with this? Thinking emotionally about what is involved, what is morally right and wrong, is not the same as thinking legally about what is necessary to prove things, and also what relationships are involved.

For instance, outside of court, your lawyer may play golf with your ex's lawyer. Or the Judge. Or your lawyer may not want to rock some boat because this court, these judges are his livelihood long after you leave the scene.

You should get a copy of the public intoxication record. Have it on hand - an official copy if one is available. Have a copy of the phone record on hand and also some evidence that this number is indeed an escort service. How do they advertise? Where did he get the number? Have an official transcript on hand and available of the record that your stbx admitted to infidelity. You will have to request the transcript and pay for it from the transcriptionist. Ask the clerk how to get this. You want to be able to pull out evidence, paper evidence. People lie in divorce court and the judge will assume you are lying unless you have evidence.

Since you are paying your attorney by the hour, getting as much evidence as you can by yourself will save you money. It just will mean that you are going to have to spend some time in the courthouse figuring stuff out and asking questions and filling out paperwork.

Take care.

V.

Sunny
Thank you so much for the advice. This am I was going over in my mind what evidence I needed to get. I don't have a copy of the 1st RO but do the second. I have copies of phone records, call to escort service and copies of police reports.

During our first attempt at mediation, my atty made fun of his atty. When I was in college, I worked for the 4th circuit court during the summers. Stbx's atty used his client base for a dating pool. He was a joke. He's now 70 years old but looks 85 which has come about from years of untold numbers of women, marriages too numerous to count and yet still has a 16 year old daughter to educate. My atty said that is why he's still practicing. This atty has macular degeneration. The subject came up because my atty's brother has the same disorder and when I told him of my eye problems, he thought that was it. This man is a has been and a joke.

I have explained to my stbx how expensive this deposition of my Dr.s is but it's as if I'm talking to a brick wall. They are not going to be in court but record of our atty's questioning them on my condition will be. My retina doctor charges $750.00 hour. I don't know about the other, but you add atty costs, reporter costs, doc fees, and travel expenses, it makes my head swim. I told my stbx that our assets will be enjoyed by our attys but he doesn't care because he's hidden a great portion so I'm the only one losing out.

My atty's father treated his mother horribly. He decided initially to go into divorce law to defend women against what his mother endured and his mother works for him. Of course he's in it for the money, I wouldn't want an atty who wasn't.

I honestly believe stbx is using leverage against me to return to the marriage..believe it or not. When ever I would talk to him about coming to an agreement instead of these doctor's depositions, his response would be "wait until mediation" when I would explain the depositions would be completed by then and costs incurred. Again, the brick wall. The last mediation, he proposed counseling instead of divorce which is like offering a bandaid to someone whose arm was torn off.

The judge who will preside is a no nonsense judge who despises abuse. The RO laws here are very lax and are granted to most everyone...I hate that because those of us who really need them are considered the same as those women who use them to manipulate. When he learns of all stbx has done, it won't be pretty. A stand in judge during the last one told my stbx that he never wanted to see his face again and advised his atty to strongly talk with his client.

What I don't understand is stbx's reputation is precious. He's portrayed himself to be this shy quite soft spoken kind man and these things being public record are dangerous. If the truth were known he would lose a great deal of his customer base. I told him I had no problem going to court and all his foolish behavior be made a matter of public record.

Can I request that the expenses incurred for these depositions be the sole responsibility of stbx? Would that be a waste of time? What would be reasonable alimony for a man that makes $8000 month? Can the alimony be adjusted as he is a saleman and income varies from year to year or is it set in stone?

Mediation works this way. Stbx/atty in one room and me/atty in another room. Mediator goes back between the rooms in order to establish a settlement. This judge requires medation before he will hear a case. Mediator and my atty played college ball together and their children are friends. My atty hired this atty as mediator and I'm not sure stbx's atty knows this or even cares. Can I threaten to end mediation if negotiations are going well enough? Could this work in my favor or be dangerous?

Thank you again Sunny...you're a God send!