I have gone dark, waiting for my lawyer to crunch the numbers and give me an opinion on where things are at. H does not know I've hired a lawyer - he decided we would have no lawyers, and like everything else, thinks what he decides is how things are going down.

Meanwhile, H is absolutely hounding me, harassing me, and trying to force me to communicate with him. I'm SO angry, and feeling so pressured - I'm here to ask you all for a sanity check, and advice in how to handle the current onslaught from him.

Quick summary: H thinks he should get all the equity in the house, as he is broke and therefore I should forego my equity. My lawyer says I have somewhere between 50K and 100K in equity coming to me, depending on how the courts would rule on a couple of things. He is still crunching the numbers. So, H and I are mega bucks apart in our perceptions..

H also has a G/F that he denies having. He has a sudden need to get the D paperwork done, though he has broken both promises he made to me PLUS failed to get me the two things I asked for (and have been asking for since January). So, it's OK for him to make demands on me, but he doesn't have to follow through on anything I want - even though he agreed to it long ago.

Between yesterday and today I have received 6 phone calls - one at work, one on my cell, and 4 at home, plus 3 E-Mails. I have not answered any of them. Each is demanding that I contact him, under the presumption that he wants to know if I'm still alive, still on this planet, etc. His words, not mine.

He now knows where I live, though I tried to keep that info from him, and he had agreed to leave me in privacy. He even dug into the official records to find out what I paid for the house. This was the one thing I thought I could keep private from him - I even have been using a PO Box.

I have constructed several scathing letters to him in my mind, but not written any of them. I want to tell him he is not running this show, and I'm not moving at his speed, at my expense. But, I am afraid if he finds out I have a lawyer before I have the legal opinions in order, I'll lose my leverage. The intent was that when he sees what the courts are likely to rule on, he'll back off and give me what I asked for, which is less than I'm entitled to (according to my lawyer).

I also feel like I need to have my ducks in a row before I contact him so I can say exactly what I want, and I'm still not clear on that myself. My lack of trust for him and his followthrough have also caused me to start thinking of scenarios, like what if he doesn't like what my lawyer says, and just refuses to file the paperwork? Or, with us filing our own paperwork, what if he refuses to sign the quit claim deed on my house? These little things keep popping into my head.

Still, I feel like I have to get him off my back - and let him know I do not answer to him, and neither my schedule or my whereabouts are his business. I can't even put words to my anger at the presumption that I am somehow obligated to respond to him because he wants my attention. This is not the first time he's pullled this, "are you alright? I haven't heard back from you" line.

I'm too angry to find the words to respond to him. Any suggestions would be welcome!

I would definitely hire an attorney to handle your case on an ongoing basis, knowing beforehand how you husband can be. Your H is already trying to continue controlling you by finding your address, what you paid for your house, and constant calls and e-mails. It will only worsen as he feels himself loosing further control over you.

Are you actually divorcing him? Is this paperwork related to the division of property related to a divorce? If your husband fails to respond to divorce paperwork within a certain time frame, the divorce and division of property can continue without him! If you are awarded your house in a divorce settlement, you may be able to use a sealed, certified copy of your divorce papers showing that the house has been awarded to you to be able to proceed with a quit claim deed.

If he continues to harass you, you can get a personal protection order against him, ordering him to have no type of contact with you. All the more reason to work through an attorney to settle your situation.

Thanks for your response. I do have an attorney, and one I really trust. I've known him since I was 5 years old, and he got me a pretty amazing out of court settlement on my PI case about 20 years ago.


He is divorcing me - at least that's how it started. The paperwork is related to property settlement - I need him to sign a quit claim deed on MY new house. I do not intend to sign off on his house, as I own equity in it. But, if I understand what you are saying, if he doesn't sign off on my house I can take the D paperwork and use it to get his name off even without the quit claim deed? That will certainly take off some stress over here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Has He filed the divorce papers yet? If not, you can and should go ahead and do that and have him served, you could also have your atty do a protective order at the same time and have it served then too.

Then if he has anything to say, he can contact your atty. and you don't have to deal with him.

You could also e-mail him just saying "I'm alive, no need to worry" and then block his e-mail address <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I would follow through with [color:"blue"]TR [/color] 's suggestion - email him and just say something like "I have a lot to consider right now and need some space. You don't need to worry, I'll be in touch later" or something along that line. That would buy you a little more time without him knowing about the attorney.

If the marital property laws in your state are like those in mine (and I think they are, if I remember correctly) it's quite possible your H would need to file a quit claim on your new house simply because you were still married when you bought it. This is such a dumb law but things puchased while married are considered joint, no matter whose money paid for it! Maybe your atty knows a way around this? Keep us posted.

I think you have already put it into words perfectly:

I do not answer to him, and neither my schedule or my whereabouts are his business.


My guess is you are pressured because he is trying to manipulate the situation, and you are angry because you are afraid it might work. Be confident in your boundaries! You don't have to talk to him or respond to him in any way if you don't want to!

If you want to respond to him, I think your words above are perfect, delivered via email, not by phone or in person. This is your life, and you decide if, when and how you communicate with someone. If you don't want to respond - don't.

TR, Avondale, AFS:

Thanks for the input. I will think on it a bit more today, and then send some kind of E-Mail later tonight. You have given me several suggestions that I can use to avoid specifically mentioning the attorney.

I considered not responding at all. But probably won't go that route. Given how pushy he is being, and how dramatic he can be about things in general, I could see him calling the police or showing up over here to "see if I'm alive". Now that he invaded my privacy and found out where I live, that is.

TR - you suggested that I file. H has downloaded these forms from the county he lives in and wants us to file them ourselves. I'm OK with that IF we agree on what the terms are, and if my attorney thinks they cover the bases and I can get resolution to my issues that way. My attorney is looking into this now - and seems to be OK with the general approach.

So, at the moment I'm not going with the serving route. I really believe when H sees my attorney's letter he will back off and we can work something out. If H doesn't want to do this, his alternatives are worse and I think he'll realize that.

My attorney keeps telling me, one thing at a time - get agreements first (if you can) and then go from there. He says, "that's why you hired me - let me worry about that stuff." So, I'm trying to do that, and not project into the future so much.

OK - here is the draft of what I want to E-Mail to my H. He left me yet another voice mail today while I was gone - this time in a nasty and demanding tone saying "WE NEED TO TALK" as if his assertive tone was binding on me somehow.

Anyway, I'd really appreciate input from the MB folks here before I send this. I am really scared to send it, scared of what he will do and the repercussions. At the same time, I believe I need to take a stand, and take the risk. I gotta tell you, I can feel the stress rising through my body - I'm about to crawl out of my skin! I am a basket case right now. I hate this!

Anyway, here it is - comments please!


I am alive.

I do not appreciate the continual phone calls and E-Mails, especially since I already told you I am looking into the legalities and will get back to you when I feel I have evaluated my interests in this matter. I am not dragging my feet.

I do not answer to you, and neither my schedule, nor my whereabouts, are any of your business. You seem to think your demands supersede anything else that is going on in my life and that I owe it to you to drop my life to deal with what you want, when you want it – regardless of my needs. I do not appreciate your tone on my voice mails either. You do not have the right to make demands on me like you are doing. You are making me more convinced to not want to discuss anything further with you.

In light of the above, it is interesting to me that you have not found time in 6 months to address MY requests of you, yet you feel justified in hounding me for what you want. Each time you ask what you can do to move things along, I wonder why you don’t hear me when I remind you of the TWO things I wanted taken care of: the Internet domain transferred to me, and the X-mas ornaments.

Your recent behaviors and attitudes have also been very disappointing, but not surprising. They do, however, demonstrate to me that I cannot trust you and that you are not considering my feelings or interests in this, or any other matters.

You have gone back on your word on the only two things I asked of you, and have lied to me besides. This does not bode well for the two of us working together on anything further.

You and I do not agree on how the numbers work out. Repeated attempts on my part to present my wishes have been met with you presenting a totally different picture that I disagree with.

I do not agree that WE need to talk. You may want to talk, but that does not mean WE need to talk. I no longer think talking will be productive.

I have my own priorities and things going on in my life. This is not the only thing on my plate. As such, I did not, and do not, have time to research the legalities of this, and there is a great deal at stake. Because of this, and my inability to further trust you in this matter, I have hired (name of my attorney) to evaluate the forms you want us to file.

Considering our inability to agree on the final financial numbers, I have also asked (name of my attorney) to evaluate both your data and mine, and render a legal opinion on who is entitled to what according to the law in MN.

However badly you want this resolved, you can be sure I want it over with as much, if not more, than you do.

I'm confused. I thought you wanted to avoid mentioning the attorney?

I did, but am rethinking that. My attorney thinks I should mention it. He thinks H may have gotten his own legal advice, and if so will know he's not going to get away with railroading me - if not, he will likely back down quickly.

I had said I didn't want to - I was avoiding it for personal reasons because I am afraid of the impact and what H will do. You know, the lawyering up thing? I have very mixed feelings about this - but given the amount of harassment I'm getting, this might be the only way to get him off my back.

I know, I must sound like an idiot - I am definitely conflicted and worrying about what will happen next.

I had told H I was looking into things but hadn't specifically mentioned the attorney.

Hmm. I know I haven't posted much before, but I would keep the email much shorter and to the point and leave out the personal disappointments, etc. (Believe me, I know they are true, but really won't accomplish anything for you -- he's not going to see it, and will probably focus on that rather than the issues at hand). I cut some stuff out, all your words though. Just a thought. Good luck!


I am alive.

I would appreciate you to follow my wishes to not call and E-Mail me.

I am still waiting for you to address MY requests of you, including the Internet domain transferred to me, and the X-mas ornaments.

You and I do not agree on how the numbers work out. Repeated attempts on my part to present my wishes have been met with you presenting a totally different picture that I disagree with.

I have no desire nor see the need for us to talk. I no longer think talking will be productive.

I have my own priorities and things going on in my life. This is not the only thing on my plate. As such, I did not, and do not, have time to research the legalities of this, and there is a great deal at stake. Because of this, and my inability to further trust you in this matter, I have hired (name of my attorney) to evaluate the forms you want us to file.

Considering our inability to agree on the final financial numbers, I have also asked (name of my attorney) to evaluate both your data and mine, and render a legal opinion on who is entitled to what according to the law in MN.

I am not dragging my feet, I want it over with as much, if not more, than you do.

Hey thanks! It is much better than the one I wrote.

I did add two things - one being a comment that he had broken promises to me because this is why I no longer trust him and why I see no point in talking. (The last time we communicated I was agreeable that we should talk so this is a change for me.) The second thing I added is to remind him that I already told him I'd contact him when I had my info ready and that is still the case.

Now, I'm going to stew for about another hour - and if I still feel good about it, I will hit Send!

Thanks again! Much appreciated!

I like the newer version better too - it's more focused.

OK - it's sent. Now we see what he does. Oddly enough I'm afraid of him. He has never hit me, but has an awful temper, and I think this falls into the category of threatening his survival needs. I wish he didn't know where I live. Thankfully I have a security system and 3 dogs.

Ah well... now I wait and see.

Pray for me!

Well, I've got my response. He's shut me out of the web site effective immediately, and will let me use my E-Mail address "for the time being". He's threatening that he owns equity in my new house. It's getting really ugly. My attorney was right - H did get some legal advice.

So, I wouldn't think he had any claim on my new house as he never paid one dime for it and his name is not on the deed. He says he does. Sounds like he is going to go to court and try to get part of my house. Can he do that?

WILL THIS NEVER END??????

I sent him back an E-Mail and said the things I wanted to say in the first place. Can't get any worse, and at least I don't feel like an idiot not addressing his bad behavior.

I'm SHAKING I'm so upset.

yes he can, because it was bought as marital property. . property while you are married. . .

work with your lawyer, and get a resolution to your financial situation. . . you are just guessing and assuming that he is being truthful . .

the longer you go without filing a motion, the more easily money and stuff can disappear, because accounts aren't frozne, etc. . .

you have got to get yourself out of the situation no matter how difficult it looks or how unfavorable he might react.

wiftty

State laws vary. In the State of Michigan, which has "no fault" divorce, property division is typically 50-50 if no children are involved and no pre-nup contract was set up. This would mean that since you purchased your house while still married, it would be taken into consideration in the division of property between the two of you. It wouldn't matter if the "property" was in your or his name only. It's considered "marital property". Of course, your state may have a totally different kind of property division.

If there is a divorce settlement that awards you your house, and he still refuses to sign a quit claim, that is the type of situation where you can often use a sealed copy of your divorce settlement to show that the house was awarded to you and that you have full rights to the deed.

I realize it's hard to deal with your husband's power and control tactics without responding to him. I'm sure he knows exactly what buttons to push to try and get you going. While you have "nothing to lose" at this point, why continue to exchange any kind of communications with him? I'm sure that it's EXACTLY what he wants...to keep you stirred up! The most punishing thing one can do to "power-control" people is to not respond...period!" It bugs the crap out of them more than anything!! Just "don't show up for their game!" It's hard to jockey for control when no one else shows up to compete!

It appears that nothing you say is going to impact on whether or not he stops harassing you. He doesn't care what you want or think. In my opinion, he does care about exerting control over you in any manner that he can. That's an ongoing pattern for him from what you've described...not just now but in the past, too. Again, do be cautious in setting limits in terms of your personal safety. As his power-control becomes more threatened...he may become progressively more angry and more dangerous towards you. Obviously I don't know him personally. But I have worked in domestic violence, and he appears to have many similar tatics. Only you would know this for certain.

It sounds like you have an excellent attorney. You've known him for a long time..he's done good legal work for you in the past...he knows you well. It sounds like you trust him. It would probably be in your best interest to do exactly as he advises...no less...nothing more.

In the meantime...write all the emails to your husband that you want to...just don't send them. Come here and vent. Come here and tell us exactly what you'd like to be saying to him right now! We can be your cheering section! Might even come up with a few choice phrases to support your efforts! Don't give him the satisfaction of joining his game!

Above all, keep yourself safe. Nothing....NOTHING...is worth your life! Take care!

Heartmending,

We are a state like Michigan, according to my lawyer.

H's position is that everything he has done, he has done for me. All his suffering was so I could buy my house. (He seems to forget he is the one who wanted out). He has given me everything he had - he doesn't see that he was buying out part of my equity in doing that. Nor does he think I still should have any equity either. He thinks he was giving me something of his.

I don't think he will hurt me. I do think I am going to get my own Internet domain and switch to that ASAP and let him keep and pay for the old one. To H*LL with him. It will be tons of work for me - I will see what my attorney says on Monday, but by the end of the week, I will be prepared to drop the whole thing and leave him stuck with it. He can answer all the queries for my business then - since he will have the domain along with all its baggage.

I did send him a response - maybe I shouldn't have. But I did. And I told him the things he has done that led me to these actions. I felt that he was pushing me around to see if I would object to his girlfriend and his manipulation. I felt like if I didn't acknowledge that I knew he'd done that, I'd be letting him do it some more.

It is really scary to me that he has any claim on my house. I paid for it with MY money - he thinks the equity is what he gave me, but it was MY money that was the downpayment on the original house, that I was simply recovering from his refinance. Any $ I have put into it was MY money, not his. How can he have any claim to that?

I am about ready to do anything to get him out of my life PERMANENTLY. This is not worth it. My lawyer thinks if we pursue what we can, he will have to sell the house. I am afraid he will get a lawyer, fight it, and we will both lose. This is not worth it - it is simply not worth it. Maybe he should just go down in history as a thief and be done with it.

I can tell it is going to be a long sleepless night.

GR-RRRRRR <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] ,
I am glad you edited your first letter - [color:"blue"] Cinderella[/color] had the right idea. I understand your frustration in sending the follow up email too. Now that you know your H has involved his own attorney will help you and your atty plan.

Am I understanding correctly that H is still in your "matrimonial home"? If so, you'd have to file a quit claim on that too, so maybe y'all can trade quit claim deeds on each other's house. Remember, [color:"blue"] WIFTY[/color] is right - whatever is bought during the marriage is joint marital property in your state. It doesn't matter "whose money" paid for it. Unless you can show a very strong paper trail that your money came through a whole different set of circumstances (i.e., it was in a separate 'your name only' type of account that you inherited from Grandma Gertrude) your new house would be considered joint property.

I hope that your H has stopped calling so much - which I'm sure might bring a whole new feeling of loss which might surprise you. Keep us posted.

in my best glinda voice,

"you have the power to make it end. . . anytime you want"

you want no interaction, don't YOU interact, but don't consider his attempts at interaction interaction. . .

so he sells the marital home, "what he considers his", that is better than having him hound you all the time. . .

listen to your lawyer, but don't give up on yourself, which is what his motis operandi is, wear you down to agree. That is why you need a lawyer, and that is why you need to NOT respond, except through your lawyer. . .

I told you along time ago, he will not listen to anyone, except someone that actually has power over him, a judge or the law. . . . so forget the letters, letters just show him where your weaknesses are, for he is constantly on the lookout for them.

just imagine how he is feeling, he could manipulate everyone to his satisfaction, up until recently, when the merry go round stopped, and now no one will listen, and no one will cooperate. . . its driving him crazy, and that is what you are witnessing in his actions. ..

good luck

wiftty