Well, I guess I am not exactly new. Four years ago I was here...right after 9/11 my husband who is in the military had an (or many) emotional affairs. It lasted about 6 weeks and right before Christmas he came home. That has lasted until now. Once again my husband has decided that he needs his freedom. I have found out there are at least 2 other women who he is having an EA with..no physical evidence yet.

Let me tell you a little bit about him. He works in New York City and he goes out to bars with friends and who is at all these bars but single women looking for a man. He loves the attention he gets and feels like he wants to experience this now while he still can. He says he is confused...doesn't know what he is doing, but must do it anyway! He says there is no other woman but I found 2 emails on Father's Day simply saying hello and thinking of you...so...we know what that means!

He sleeps at his friends some nights and comes home some nights. I have 3 children who are used to him working late hours and getting up early so I don't think they fully know what is going on, but they do see him treating me differently. We have always had such a warm, loving relationship and now no touching, no nothing..barely any words.

I don't know what to do or how to act. My first instinct was to run and never look back because I can't believe this is happening again. But, I do think he is sick and this is an addiction. But how can he ever over come this addiction? How do we get back to the way we were before the first EA 4 years ago??? I thought we had made it. He went to Iraq in 2003 and we were so in love while he was gone and when he came back. Now...I just don't know what to do. I guess people would say I am stupid for wanting to fight one more time. But I want my family back.

Any advice, encouragement???

Thanks!

{{{{{LostintheCity}}}}}

Don't have time to respond right now. Will do so later. Just want you to know that you're being heard and that I and many others will come to your aid very soon.

Hang in there,

What makes you think these are limited to EA's and are not PA's? Going out to bars and receiving emails saying "thinking of you" would make me think a PA is a distinct possibility.

Dont let him fool you...He is having a PA...look at his actions...going to bars? Sleeping at friends house? Home some nights not others? Why would he sleep at a friends house and not at his OWN house with his wife and three kids? He is having an affair...Dont fool yourself!

There is NO REASON why he should not be sleeping at home...and even more so, there is no reason why he should be going out alone in the first place...why is he going out without YOU? You need to set some boundries...first off, he stops going out...there is no reason to be going to bars while you are married...especially without your wife present..secondly, he needs to stop sleeping at friends houses...NO EXCUSE for that...

if he makes excuses, then there is your proof...

I'm sorry your here, but you are in the right place...you will get lots of help here...keep posting!

Hi LITC,

First of all, welcome back! Please stay with us - you'll get the support and answers you need. And, you never know, you just may get the positive outcome you hoped for in your M too!

"My first instinct was to run and never look back because I can't believe this is happening again."

>I'm pretty certain that this is how every BS feels when they initially discover the betrayal of an A. You're not alone.

"But, I do think he is sick and this is an addiction."

>I'm assuming you're referring to some sort of psychological and/or physiological sickness versus the emotional addiction of an A. With that said, this is possible. It's also a big assumption that your emotions may be telling you to cloud your judgement and give your H the sympathy and the "out" he needs to continue his A. I simply want to make sure that you're looking at everything logically. Since your WH's mind and judgement are already clouded, you MUST stay clear and focused and look at things as they are and not sugar-coat things.

My recommendation is to find proof of an A (emotional or physical). Do whatever it takes to get this proof. Then, expose, expose, expose! Meaning, once you have proof, let your WH and everyone who's important to him know what he's up to. That includes his family, his co-workers, his boss, his friends, his church community (if he goes). This creates discomfort and humiliation for your H and the OP in an already-fragile situation. Yes, this may tick him off, but would you rather sit there on the sidelines, acting like nothing's happening, while your H and your family may be slipping farther & farther away for some sleaze-bag?

"how can he ever over come this addiction?"

>If it truly is some sort of sickness, your H will need some intense counseling w/ a specialist. He'll also will have to WANT to seek help. It's the old saying ... "you can lead the horse to the water, but you can't make it drink" However, if it's the addiction that comes with an A, I strongly suggest you start familiarizing yourself with the materials on this website re: Infidelity. Start reading up on Plan A and Plan B, and KEEP POSTING! There are some amazing folks on this forum who have "been there, done that" who can offer great advice on how to overcome an A. If they can help me, they can help anyone!

"How do we get back to the way we were before the first EA 4 years ago???"

>Unfortunately, the sad truth is that things will never be the same after an A. With that said, I (and many others) are living proof that things can get even BETTER than before the A! First, you need to work on getting your H off of his A/addiction to the A. Then, I suggest you read Harley's book entitled "His Needs, Her Needs." Very powerful stuff, yet it's all very straight-forward and logical. The key here, however, is that BOTH of you will have to want to make it work, so I encourage you to follow Plan A & Plan B to get your WH to turn around 1st. So long as he's in his foggy A, he'll never truly want to work.

"I thought we had made it."

>This may sound calloused, but I've come to realize that no couple ever really "makes it". As a dear friend told me when I was in my fog and in search for answers, she said that she stayed w/ her H knowing that she'll have to work on it for the rest of her life. I think once we think that we've "made it" and become complacent, that's when the potential of an A can rear its ugly head. Sorry to be so cynical, but that's just my humble opinion.

"I guess people would say I am stupid for wanting to fight one more time. But I want my family back."

>Nobody, and I mean, NO ONE would ever think you're stupid for doing the right and honorable thing to want a happy M & family. Isn't that why we're all here??

So, to sum things up ...

1. Find proof of the A - whether emotional or physical.
2. If proof is found, then expose him!
3. Read up on Plan A and start implementing ASAP.
4. Begin reading Plan B so that you're prepared for whatever comes your way.
5. Read HNHN to give you hope.

Also, it wouldn't hurt if you can find an IC who can help you through this very difficult time. I know the military provides this service free of charge.

I hope this helps. Again, keep posting, and hang in there!!

Thank you for the responses.

First of all I am not certain there is no physical affair, so from now on I will just say affair!

Let me try to explain where I think he is coming from so you can get a picture of how truly selfish he is. My husband loves attention. He loves the feeling he gets when people think he is so wonderful. He has a high profile job and comes into contact with many interesting people. He feels like he needs to be able to experience women younger than him being attracted to him. It's like he is in college again and he is bar hoping and picking up anyone who will give him the time of day. Being in NYC there is never a lack of women wanting a good looking man...married or not.

I think he is at a place where he is torn between doing what's right...family...and doing what feels good...attention from younger women. He retires from the military next year and is scared all this attention will be gone. As much as I hate to admit it, right now his family is just not enough for him.

I just don't know what I should be doing. Ok, I can find out if there is another woman. I already have seen emails from 2. I will read up on Plan A. Often times I feel like a doormat...is that normal? I am the one who single-handedly held our marriage together the first time. I don't know if I have the strenght to do that again. I want to be married. I want my children to have a family that has a mother and father together. I just feel like I am always making the sacrifices. Ok, now I am just rambling.

I am embarrassed to tell our friends. Can't tell my family right now because they would neverbe able to forgive him and if things work out it would be a terribl situation. Both his parents are deceased and his 2 brothers don't care. I feel alone. My husband used to be my best friend. We did everything together.

Thanks for listening and I am reading and trying to do all advice so keep it coming.

Can someone clarify Plan A for me? I have been reading but it seems like everyone in Plan A is making all the sacrifices. The spouse who cheats gets the best of the wife and the OW...right? So why would the spouse ever come back to the wife? I am confused and would like some help.

For instance...when my husband emails me something about the kids...not hello to me or anything..do I answer back or ignore? When ho doesn't call and doesn't come home for dinner but gets home at like 8 or 9 at night do I just act like I am happy to see him or what? I am soooo confused and probably not thinking right.

Can someone help???

"My husband loves attention. He loves the feeling he gets when people think he is so wonderful."

>This is a mark of someone w/ self esteem issues that typically result from childhood problems (ie, poor family dynamics/support, childhood obesity, etc.). I should know - I'm the same way. Anyway, this can be helped - both from IC and from his current family (you & your kids). Note: I ventured out of my M b/c I felt unappreciated, unattractive and unwanted. (Note: I was a fashion/swimsuit model not too long ago, so it has nothing to do w/ real looks - it's how I perceived myself.) After a few years, my H became very complacent about our M and treated me like a roommate (in more ways than one). Even though we were best friends, I needed MORE ... love, admiration, attention & passion. Sound familiar? Since I didn't get any of this at home, I went outside. I loved going to bars - or anywhere in public. I always got admiring looks or compliments from strangers (men or women), and get propositioned - ring or no ring. Talk about an ego boost! It was just a matter of time tht I succombed to that fantasy. My friends ask me if I never met the OM, would I have gotten into an A, and (sadly) I said yes. It was just a matter of time.

"I think he is at a place where he is torn between doing what's right...family...and doing what feels good"

>I know exactly what this means. Guilt perhaps played the biggest part in keeping me around while I was in my "fog." The good news is at least he knows what is right and has some sense of remorse. The key now is how to make sure that going back & working on the M is what's right for him. (IMHO, until what's right and what's right for him are one and the same in his head, he will continue to struggle.)

"As much as I hate to admit it, right now his family is just not enough for him."

>I believe this is partially true. Meaning, his family may not be fulfilling his emotional needs at this time, but I do believe that his family is good enough for him ... so long as it knows how to support his needs.

"Often times I feel like a doormat...is that normal? I am the one who single-handedly held our marriage together the first time."

>Interestingly enough, this is how I felt too. "Doormat" was exactly how I described myself to my IC YEARS before I had an A. In fact, I thought that the only reason my H kept me around is b/c I made good money, I cooked, I cleaned; and I took care of EVERYTHING. You're not alone.

"I am embarrassed to tell our friends. Can't tell my family right now because they would neverbe able to forgive him"

>This is your call. Keep this in mind - I thought the exact same thing, esp. about the shameful things that I've done. You see, my H and I are very conservative people from the Deep South where sex isn't even discussed, much less PA's. Once I got the nerve to bring this up, my friends and family were surprised, but they were all very supportive. They just wanted me happy. I couldn't have pulled through without them. One thing I've learned is that this sort of thing definitely separates your true friends from the others.

"Can someone clarify Plan A for me? I have been reading but it seems like everyone in Plan A is making all the sacrifices. The spouse who cheats gets the best of the wife and the OW...right? So why would the spouse ever come back to the wife?"

>Keep in mind that Plan A is the 1st step in a long-term process. Unfortunately, breaking someone from a EA/PA (esp. someone w/ self esteem issues) is not a simple feat. It may take a while, so keep posting and reading. We'll support you through it.

Back to Plan A - yes, initially, it may seem like you're allowing your WH to have his cake and eat it too. The initial hope here is that your WH will realize what he has and turn around. But, if he doesn't, that's when Plan B comes in. So, Plan A means you love him, dote on him, support and take care of him. In short, prove your unconditional love for your H and show him the "ideal wife."

Plan B takes place right before you're about to lose all your love and inclination to work thing out. At that point, you write your WH a Plan B letter letting him know that b/c you don't want to lose your love for him, you have to do this for the sake of your M ... you'll cut everything (and I MEAN EVERYTHING) off. No contact, no support, no love, no wife, no kids ... until he decides to cut off all contact w/ the OW and change his shameful ways. The logic here is that your H will be shell-shocked. His wonderful, loving wife who has proven her unconditional love is now replaced by the horrible realities of an A ... a shameful, dishonorable fantasy that doesn't love him, doesn't care for him and will not be there for him.

You see, Plan A & Plan B go hand in hand. That's why it's sooo important that you MUST stick to the program and BE STRONG! Remember, you're not fighting for who he is now; you're fighting for a future ... a loving H and a happy M. Keep your eyes on the prize. When you get discouraged, don't LB him, come here, vent all you want. Again, we'll help you through it.

Keep posting!!

Hi lost...I am getting ready to go to a party, but I am sure someone will be around soon to clarify Plan A for yuo! Basically, you dont want to LB, you want to be the best you can be...dont argue...but do not accept that he can have the best of both worlds...stand firm in your ground that you want this marriage to work out, but will not tolerate him having an affair...set boundries...show him who you are...a good woman, wife, mother, friend...That is all I have time for now...I'll come back later on!

Thank you! I really appreciate you both taking the time to write. I feel so alone right now. I have no family close and a very close friend is moving this week so I have no one to talk to but the people here. I feel such sadness.

Plan A sounds hardbut I am going to try because I do believe my marriage is worth saving. My husband is my soulmate and I still believe that, at least for now.

I don't know if he will be home tonight...haven't heard from him. Of course he missed dinner but I have stopped waiting for him. The kids and I just eat when we want. I feel sad for my kids. They do not officially know anything, but they are 18, 15 and 8 so the older two really know something is not right. They don't ask and I haven't said anything to them. I don't cry around them.

I am not a strong person, at least I don't feel like it. I'm going to try not to lose my mind and make my marriage work.

Another question...I have the email address of the person that he is spending time with. Should I write her and tell her he is married with 3 kids?

Thanks again!

"Another question...I have the email address of the person that he is spending time with. Should I write her and tell her he is married with 3 kids?"

>ABSOLUTELY!!!!! Play to her sympathy if need be. Let her know how his kids misses him and how they don't understand why their dad is not in his seat at dinner time. Since we're not sure whether she knows he's married already nor what type of person she is, I wouldn't mention your feelings in this, as she may take it as competition.

"I feel so alone right now. I have no family close"

>Again, I ask you to possibly reconsider visiting with your family (or at least a sibling whom you can trust). If not, then 1 or 2 good friends with whom you can confide. This is important to keep your mental health and wits about you. You need this right now. I also encourage you to visit with an IC. It's so nice just to be able to vent to someone in-person who understands your situation and can even provide you with some guidance. Heck, just venting sometimes is very therapeutic. With that said, you've got friends here - YOU'RE NOT ALONE!!!

Hang in there,

Once again thank you. I do feel so alone. My husband did not come home last night. Says he stayed at a friends. I fear I have lost him for good. I am not a good Plan A person, but then again if I don't see him how can I even try? I am trying...I want my marriage to work. I just don't know what to do. I guess just wait and live my life the best I can. I think I need to talk with my kids about this. I will seek out a counselor. I also feel like I need to go to church again.

Thanks for listening.

"if I don't see him how can I even try?"

>Call him up. Tell him you want to take him on a date. If he's not receptive, wait a day or 2 and find an excuse to get him to come over to the house. When he does, put on your sexiest outfit, have your hair nicely done and your makeup on and "convince" him to go out with you.

LITC, I know you're probably thinking: "he's out running around and having a great ol' time while I'm here fighting to keep this M alive all by myself."

I guess it goes back to how much you truly want the M to work? If you walked the other way, your actions are justified and nobody will judge you. However, you said...

"But I want my family back."

>I've come to realize that M is all about ups 'n downs. I asked a friend if she would be willing to go through everything all over again if she knew how hard it was going to be. She said that she stayed knowing that it would take a life time. I still get teary-eyed when I think about it.

Be strong.

Thank you for always responding!

I am just going to write to let my feelings out. Husband has not been home for 2 days. Have only had email contact no phone calls. Emails about D18 college and summer camp, etc... He did say he does not want me to leave the area. Moving is a possibility right now because it is summer and kids are out of school and this is not our permanent home. Next year we will for sure move,remember we are military, so if I don't have a marriage then this summer would be a good time to move. But he says he does not want us to leave. I guess that is a good sign??

We take our kids to hockey camp every summer in Minnesota. We are scheduled to be gone for 2 weeks. WH says he wants us all to go. Is that a good sign?

I'm so confused! He does not come home, does not wear a wedding ring, does not want to be married right now, will not admit to an affair, say there is no one else he just needs to experience freedom...attention. I figure there must be an A of some kind, have seen 2 emails but nothing completely incrimenating. I just don't get it! I think he has lost his mind!!!!

I have decided to brush myself off and Plan A. We are selling a house we own and the attorny sent papers to be signed. Sent WH an email saying he needs to come get them and sign them. He said he may come this morning so I showered early and cleaned the house. Sent an email saying he could come this am or wait til tonight, thinking if he is home at night then he can't be out in bars, right? He sent email saying he got tied up this am so looks like tonight might work. Fingers crossed he does come home, but hope not up! I am really going to concentrate on me because I will lose my mind if I don't. Kids are officially out of school so we can go to the pool and the beach and have some fun!!

Thanks for listening to me ramble! If anyone cares tor ead this and respond that would be great! Otherwise I will jsut keep writing because it is good for me!

"I am just going to write to let my feelings out."

>Please do so!

"he says he does not want us to leave. I guess that is a good sign??"

>Never know what's in a WS's head when they're in the fog. Don't take this the wrong way, but my guess is that he simply want you around to "make sure" he's done his full comparison/contrast analysis and is making the right decision. I suppose it's better than having him wave goodbye.

"We are scheduled to be gone for 2 weeks. WH says he wants us all to go. Is that a good sign?"

Absolutely! Any time you have the family together is a good thing - it allows you to execute Plan A and show him how much you and the kids love and care for him. Remember - no LB's or it will backfire.

"I figure there must be an A of some kind"

>Based on what you've shared to date, the warning signs for an A are everywhere (sorry).

"have seen 2 emails but nothing completely incrimenating."

>One email is incriminating enough! Stop giving him excuses. What I suggest is for you to find out which bar he frequents and go and see for yourself. I'm sure you're afraid of what you'll find, but at least you'll know what you're up against and can plan accordingly.

"I just don't get it! I think he has lost his mind!!!!"

>Actually, you're not too far off from the truth. When a WS is in his/her fog, it's very much like being a crazy lunatic. I don't know how many times I've asked my friends if I was nuts. Based on my own experience, he's probably completely consumed by guilt and indecision. The good news is if your H does finally "see the light" and turns around, he'll remember this torment (what I call limbo-hell) and will avoid being in that position at all costs.

"I am really going to concentrate on me because I will lose my mind if I don't. Kids are officially out of school so we can go to the pool and the beach and have some fun!!"

>This is the best thing I've heard from you to date! Keep in mind that the 3 most attractive thing men or women find in their mate is independence, confidence and happiness.

Hang in there - you're on the right track!

Well, I did it! WH came home last night just as we were sitting down for dinner. I had made spaghetti and meatballs and he ate with us! Then said let's go get ice cream which we did. I acted happy...no questions, no tears, no clingyness...just happy. We got home and my daughter rented a movie and we all watched and then it was bed time.

So I am pretty proud of myself that I did not once mention us or our marriage, just tried to have fun and make everything comfortable.

I am sure e won't be home tonight, but I am happy about the way last night went. Maybe he will eventually see that his family is where he should be. We all love him and hopefully that will mean something to him again!

{{{{{LITC}}}}}

This is great news! I'm sooooo proud of you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

"I acted happy...no questions, no tears, no clingyness...just happy."

I know it's so hard to be loving and "happy" in a time like this, but you did the right thing - for your kids and your future! I know it may not seem like it, but if your H is anything like me, he will remember this. Trust me. He will remember.

I'm stupid and not on the right track any more. WH came home today. Did not get here til about 11am. He has a dinner for work to go to tonight so we hung around the house and picked up daughter from friends and then he got ready to leave. He said...see you in the morning. Well....stupid me says why not come home toight? He said I thought we had a plan??? What plan??? He said I come home on the weekends and some days during the week. I said, oh I didn't know we had a plan and it is the weekend. He said, yes you've got a point. I said I guess I need my own plan.

I KNOW...lovebusters all over the place. I told you I am VERY bad at Plan A. I did not cry or raise my voice or anything, but should have just kept my mouth shut. I feel stupid. I hate this is happening. I don't know what to do. I am terrible at this. I just want my family life back. I am so mad at WH for doing this. How can you be around someone and love them when they do not give back?? I really hate this. I am reading and will try to do better tomorrow. There is a part of me that wants to just tell him..go away! How can someone hurt their family so bad?? I just don't understand. We are loving and adore him and he hates us.

Sad again, but what else is new???

Well, ofcourse he did not call or come home last night. Got an email this morning saying he would be here today. I just can't do this any more so I simply wrote back "Probably not a good idea to come today." and he wrote back "ok." So that's that! Another weekend day alone with the kids. I am sad beyond belief. I want my husband and my marriage. I just can't do all this Plan A stuff. I guess I am just not strong enough to have him around and act happy, happy. I am a failure! I do want my marriage to work, but how??? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

First of all, YOU ARE NOT A FAILURE!!! You're human - like the rest of us. Just ask anyone in recovery on this website - even those who've been here for years. We're all still amatures at this. Nobody's perfect or we wouldn't be here.

And, frankly, if your conversation w/ the H is as you've described, I don't see where you've gone wrong. It's OK to let him know that you're independent enough to make your own plans. Nobody, esp. he, can blame you for that!

"How can you be around someone and love them when they do not give back??"

>Honestly, I don't know the answer to this one. I'm just so very thankful that my H did it for me. If it's any consolation, he now says it was worth it. And, I'll tell you one thing - now that I've seen the light, I will make it my purpose in life to make sure that it was worth his wait and heartaches - if it takes me the rest of my life to prove it.

"How can someone hurt their family so bad?? I just don't understand. We are loving and adore him and he hates us."

{{{{{LITC}}}}}} {{{{{HUG}}}}}}}

>I'm so sorry that this is happening. I know this probably isn't much help, but what I can tell you is this - 1) he doesn't hate you or he would've already filed for a D 2) he's terribly confused right now as he's deciding between his obligations as a husband/father and his own happiness. I know this may sound very strange, but he's constantly asking himself "do I not have the right to be happy?" Unfortunately, so long as he's in the fog, he'll taking the selfish route, but it doesn't mean he's stopped loving you or the kids. (Or at least that's been my experience.)

"I just can't do all this Plan A stuff. I guess I am just not strong enough to have him around and act happy, happy."

>LITC, you can. I know you can. You're made of much sterner stuff than you think. You just have to expect that there will lots of be ups and downs. We'll be here for you. The best thing I can suggest is that you focus on the end result, not so much the every day struggles of getting there. I know it's much easier said than done, but you can do it.

Hang in there - keep posting and let us know how you're doing every day, OK?

Hugs to you,