So we don't dilute Milan's thread =)

To answer your question - I don't have a "marriage builder" marriage. To do that, I'd have to have a non addicted husband, because the very definition of the MB concepts requires a relationship without boundaries - which is quite impossible with an alcoholic or any other addict.

But that doesn't mean that a marriage is impossible.

It also that doesn't mean that many of the marriage builder concepts don't apply to us. Steve Harley played a huge role in the recovery of our marriage. Steve Harley painted the road back to our marriage quite clearly for my husband, so when he decided he was done with the affair, he knew exactly what he had to do to get me to drop the divorce.

Those measures are still in place 4 years later.

What I learned during my husband's affair was that I could NOT blame all of my misery on his drinking. My focus on his problems kept me so incredibly spiritually stunted for so long...

Believe me, as a co-dependent, much of my behavior in the past was far worse than my husbands. While it would have been easy to have decided that our marital problems were because he was an alcoholic...the truth was, I was very much a willing, yet unknowing participant in the sick dance of alcoholism.

In fact, much of the decline of our marriage happened in the 2 years before his affair, starting with my light bulb moment of understanding that my husband WAS an alcoholic. I had many pity parties, many hours and days of feeling superior and "right" for not being an addict, and blaming him for everything wrong in my life. I had many pleasant hours of obsessing about him, what he was doing, what he should be doing, how I could fix him, etc etc etc. All the while, I got to neglect myself. No time for me, every ounce of energy was directed at analyzing and blaming and attempting to control him! I even had a great group of friends who all admired me for being a saint for sticking out my marriage to such a jerk. (St. BR the Martyered Victim - it was a great title, I got alot of mileage from it!)

If he would have just fixed himself dammit, according to my enlightened demands...our life would have just been darn rosie. I made his life hell with my snotty superior selfish demands that he fix himself (which was a DJ in the extreme) to my satisfaction. I communicated my selfish demands and disrespectful judgements with angry outbursts.

What I did not see was that *I* was as sick or even sicker - I just didn't medicate with booze.

Now, I stay in a marriage that isn't perfect by a long shot, because it is my choice. I won't go into the reasons here, it's really not the point.

Alcoholism doesn't make someone bad. It makes a person sick.

Alcohol definitely impairs his ability to be fully in our marriage or a part of our family.

It also means that I can't possibly meet all fo his needs because some of his needs are unreasonable. I draw boundaries, and meet his needs that are healthy. For example, I will gladly drive to the local coffee shop in town and pick up coffee for him to show him I care. But what he'd really love is for me to show my love by delivering him his favorite bottle of booze. I don't do that.

And while he considers my opinion of his drinking to be a lovebuster, that doesn't stop me from honestly voicing my concerns about his drinking, when the moment is appropriate. He is well aware that I am very afraid of watching him die. What I learned to give up, was the unrealistic expectation that my telling him of my fear would motivate him to quite!
Who knows what he hears me say - it doesn't matter. What matters is that I have learned to be honest and that makes me proud of myself.

So rather than sit around in a pity party about what I don't have, I appreciate what he does give me. I thank God for the good times, because there are alot of things I have to be grateful for.

[color:"purple"]I choose to be happy.[/color]

I've learned to drop my self righteous black and white approach to life. I've learned to stop disrespectfully judging my husband - his status as an alcoholic does not entitle me to LB him.

I've learned that I need to be proud of the woman I am, and that means taking responsiblity for myself. It means that, for today, I choose to stay with my husband. I can honestly say that I love my husband, and he loves me.

That doesn't mean though, that if circumstances change...that I can't change my mind. And if I find that staying in an alcoholic marriage is no longer "ok", what I have learned is that I will be just fine because I can take care of myself and my children.

But to fully answer your question - yes - my changes did bring about a huge change in our relationship. When you change who you are in the relationship, it changes the dynamic.

I went from an emotionally desperate codependent control freak to learning how to care for myself, draw boundaries, respect my instincts and feelings, and how to honestly and directly ask for what I need.

Imagine my shock when I found out that not only did I deserve my needs to be met, but that my husband was willing to do so. And while he doesn't meet every need, he does meet some of them. I've learned to take the responsibilty of finding healthy sources of satisfaction and happiness in other parts of my life. Life is good! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

My husband and I were both so woefully clueless about marriage when we first got married. We really did not want to be divorced, we just didn't know how to be married. I am proud to say that I was able to be that shining light to my husband, that did show him that there was another way and that our marriage could be happy. MB gave us alot of answers we didn't have.

I'll be celebrating my 15th wedding anniversary this fall...4 years post successful recovery.

BR,

I do have a feeling that a change in perspective was the biggest and most important change you experienced, but can you give some practical examples of how you came to be this woman you are today in your relationship?

Some specific examples on how you handled things, such as him going out to the bar at inappropriate times.

And what you did to make this change lasting in yourself, such as books or activities?

I would really appreciate it and I think others reading would also.

Thanks,

Hi Rosey
Good to see you around. We miss you when you are not here.

Lemonman, Bramblerose took her lemons and made lemonade. She has been a great source of help to many MB through the years, me included.

Now Weaver you are single, be particular. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bramblerose does have much to offer that we can all apply in our relationships. Thank you for posting.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Particular is me new middle name! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But unfortunately I've never met man nor woman who wasn't flawed. So I guess I am just going to have to learn how to become perfect, just to cope. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Naw, just kidding little queenie.

WONDERFUL post BR!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank You!!!!

You got that right! Me either.

I have a magnet on my fridge that says "the only normal people are the ones you don't know very well.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Soooo good to see you around, BR. This is an excellent post. So much wisdom and truth wrapped up in these words, and needed by many here, including me!!! I didn't have alcoholism in my marriage (I can't imagine!), but since my divorce, have had these struggles with my sister, and I have learned sooooo much, and still learning.

Thank you for posting, BR!

BR:

I am shaking my head from side to side and my heart is racing in response to your post! I so much appreciate and relate to what you are saying. You have captured in so many of your words who I was and who I am striving to be in my own Personal Recovery Journey these days.

You said:



This is the good that came out of Plan B and my H's A for ME!

Bramblerose:

That was an excellent post and thank you for sharing it with us. You explain your POV very well. Thank you for teacing me some things. I am always eager to learn something new from people here.

I wish you continued health and happiness in your life and marriage.

God bless and goodluck.

Thanks again foir bearing your soul.

LM

Thanks BR!!

-ol' 2long

Hi guys.

Lemonman ~ thank you for your kind wishes. I hope I answered your questions. I was not offended in the least ~ I prefer people to be upfront!

Weaver ~ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I didn't intend this post to be taken in any way a recommendation or a how-to be married to an alcoholic.

This thread was NOT meant as encouragement to stay in or to volunteer for degrading, dysfunctional, abusive marriages.

Some flaws are bigger than others and alcoholism is one of the biggies. I would NEVER recommend an alcoholic as marriage material. If you are single and looking..and finding that alcoholics are popping up in your dating life...then *I* personally would stop dating and spend the extra time understanding and uncovering what about ME was being pulled towards dysfunctional men.

Healthy people do not find alcoholics attractive =)

Healthy people have a much greater chance of making healthy choices than unhealthy people do.

So, if you are trying to make life altering decisions...dont you agree that one should do their best to do a little self examination and weed out the flaws in the programming of the psyche before embarking on a decision making process?

That was my answer, and it is my answer to so many people in pain on these boardsd now.

Take the focus off the WS. Put the focus on you. The answers will become clear as YOU grow. Waiting for the WS to change (or trying to force/manipulate/control the WS to change) so you can be happy is a waste of time and energy because it will never come to fruition in ways that you expect.

Susan is right - be particular - because YOU deserve a healthy relationship with a man that is capable of giving back 100%. Do not volunteer for anything less than a man with nothing more than the garden variety of male flaws like leaving the toilet seat up!

To answer your question about what I did to grow? I attended Al-anon. I found a sponsor that loved me until I was able to learn how to love myself. I dragged my kids to counseling and I found family therapy tailored to families affected by addiction.

Do a search on the old site for some of my posts. I did a lot of posting back in the day.

I was married to my husband for 8 years when I realized he was an alcoholic. We'd had 2 children. Before I began to find a path to personal recovery I kicked my cheating husband out of the house and discovered my pregancy with #3 two weeks later. I had no job, no job history (out of the workforce for 10 years, and no college degree!) 2 kids, pregnant, and an alcoholic cheating husband.

Today, I have a great full time professional career and I make an income that will support me if I need it to - in the event that we lose my husband's income. I provide all of the health insurance and other benefits to my family with my job. Our daughter is 4, in fulltime daycare and ohmigsoh such a princess. She is the best thing that ever happend to me. She has her daddy wrapped around her little finger. He even dares to enter "Limited Too" for her sake. Nothing is more precious than to see my little curly haired daughter, with her hand in her fathers, walking through the store looking at pretties. My husband looks so out of place as the only man daring enough to enter in the what is the height of little girl fantasy land!

My boys and I have a very open relationship. My oldest just graduated 8th grade. I've learned so much about direct open honesty, and I share my life lessons with my boys. My personal recovery so much enhanced my relationship with them...that alone was worth my trial by fire.

I have friends and hobbies and interests that did not have to be approved of by my husband (which held me back in the past!).

I have an formerWS alcoholic husband who loves me and cares for me to the best of his limited capactity. I love him too. His drinking breaks my heart. I had a stroke several years ago, and sometimes I wonder if I actually will outlive my husband.

The lesson I learned was that I can not expect others to change so that I can be happy. It is entirely up to me to do the changing if I am unhappy with my life and circumstances. When I take the focus off the people, things and circumstances that are SYMPTOMS of whats bothering me, and focus on what I need to do to take care of me, my life changes.

Thats the message I have to share - what worked for me was to stop dissecting what was wrong with my husband and focus on what about me needed to be fixed. I cant fix my the people in my life that bother me. I might as well spend that energy on me.

Like you said, everybody has flaws. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Your situation is much different. Please don't take my story as an excuse to accept less than you deserve in your life.

Mimi, Faith, Nerly, 2Long (Ive been watching you!), and especially Susan =) thank you!

Thank YOU hunny! You are still one of my favorites.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

BR .... always a pleasure!

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

BR,

Great, great post. My 1st husband was an alcoholic, however it wasn't possible for me to stay married to him - but our situation was different than yours.

Thanks for you insightfulness, and thanks to to lemonman for posing the question - many of us learned something.

...and I was just thinking recently that I had no reason to read or post here any longer...

BR,

I have a feeling that even if I picked the greatest guy next time, I would end up unhappy in the relationship. I have come to realize that I have been happy alone, but when in a relationship my life has become disastrous, and I have lost myself.

I am no longer going to blame it on the guys, I think I have issues and need to figure them out.

I seem to have a two year span when it comes to relationship's before they go south (the last one was twice that, but I think it's because he happened to be more messed up than me).

Thank you BR. You have given me a place to start. Although I can't turn off my feelings of love for him this soon and it may be part of why I ask, it is not all of it.

To keep reinforcing what you are saying is very important to me, because I have a short attention span when it comes to self improvement and change.

I don't ever want to be where I was again.

medc, from LilSis's thread:


It's a fair question, and one I am not willing to discuss at length in this public forum. Trust me when i say it is something that I have agonized over. I have shared the full reasons for my decision with my Alanon sponsor and a few other trusted individuals, and have not come to any other answer.

In my situation, the greatest protection for my children is for me to stay.

It would be so simple if the question was simply an alcoholic home or not...

If that was my choice, I would not be married.

HOWEVER, that does not mean I am not happy or content.

Misery is a choice that I reject.

I also reserve the right to change my mind at any time.

Thanks for the answer ... but as you suspected, it really says very little.

I will just wish you and your children all the best.

MEDC

and another response:


I am very clearly aware of what the impact of alcoholism has on children.

It was no accident that I married an alcoholic.

Both of my grandfathers were raging alcoholics that I never knew....

My home was dry, there was no drinking. Alcohol, or family hisoty involving alcohol was NEVER discussed.

I am the oldest of 10 children, and for all of us that have made it to adulthood...we are all married to alcoholics or are alcoholics.

It is a cunning, baffling, powerful....INSIDIOUS disease.

However...there are worse things in the world than a happy drunk who emotionally neglects his family.

that certainly explains more... both about your situation regarding this... but it also helps me understand you a bit better too.

thanks.

I can't be that hard to understand... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />