I need feedback from people who have experienced infidelity and are back. My husband has cheated on me while married and confessed to have cheated while dating too. I wouldn't have sex with him when we were dating, I thought it was wrong and he just went to look for it somewhere else and never really stopped. Cheated with 3 people during a relationship of 4 years. After married, we went through a tough time, he decided the marriage wasn't going anywhere and cheated again.
After all these years he has told me all the things he has done, and is asking for forgiveness. He sais he will change and that he has been a terrible person, and doesn't what to be that. He wants a to start again, having told me everything... mmmm
We have been married for only 3 years, no children, and been together for 7.
Opinions? Is there anyway someone could really change? My brain tells me HELL NO!
thanks for your comments

Though I do believe that people can change, and that even wayward spouses can recover and be faithful spouses, it sounds like your H is a serial cheater. Does he have a sexual addiction? Would he consider couselling?

There are no children yet - I certainly wouldn't be in a hurry on that one until you have worked through the fidelity problems.

Dr. H has some good material on recovering from infidelity. THe two of you need to work through it. There is much goodness there.

However, Cat_A makes a good point, bringing children into that would be a less than stellar move.

Your husband sounds like he is struggling with a sexual addiction. Men who repeat patterns of affairs, who want to change, say they feel terrible for what they are doing, and they don't want to do the things they are doing usually do have a sexual addiction.

And those with a sex addiction can change if they admit they have a problem, they seek out counseling for themselves, and they allow themselves to be held accountable by someone they trust.

Can anyone point me to information about sexual addiction?
I would also like to read about other's people's experiences but although I searched through this forum I haven't found anything.
I am thinking my H could be there.
Thanks a lot

www.sa.org is sexaholics anonymous and provides 12 step programs

www.bethesdaworkshops.org has some great recovery workshops for addict and spouse

www.faithfulandtrueministries.com contains resourses and a list of support groups

www.sexhelp.com Website for Dr. Patrick Carnes who helped defined sex addiction

Some authors who write on sexual addiction includes Mark Laaser, Patrick J. Carnes, Harry W. Schaumburg, and Russell Willingham. You can find most of the books on the Online Bookstores.

And if you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer them. I have read enough on the subject and I have been fully recovered for over 2 years and I was mess. BAD MESS!

Dear TheRealArt,
Thanks so much for the links and info. I forwarded them to my H yesterday, and came home to find him in front of the computer crying saying he was sick.
I had never heard of SA before, so I am in the basics. I really don't know what to ask at this point. I'm sure I'll have Qs as time passes. I'm still falling into reality. Thanks for ofering answers to my Qs.
May be you have suggestions on what to do in the next few days? An appointment with the psyquiatrist has been scheduled but that'll take another 2 weeks. What is a good idea to start meanwhile?
What can I do to help? to understand?
Thanks again!

I'll be glad to help with any questions.

Out of the Shadows: Understanding Sexual Addiction by Patrick Carnes is a good book that can probably be picked up at most any book store and can be ordered online that explains sexual addiction.

Individual counseling for your husband is the most important thing. He would need someone who is specialized in sexual addiction treatment to make the proper diagnosis. Sex addiction sometimes requires an psychiatrist for medication, because a lot of times there are related medical conditions such as OCD and ADHD.

Can I ask a question, are you a particular religious faith? I only ask because that has an influence on which type of counseling might be recommended.

Your part to help, you have already started by asking questions. Remember this is his problem and he has to be the one to work on the problem, you can't do it for him. Once has worked on the problem, then the two of you will work together on building a solid marriage.

Thanks again. He will be seing a psychiatrist 2 weeks from now. I'll tell him to suggest a referal to a specilist in SA.
I'll look for the book you suggest.
I really really appreciate your help.
We are both catholics, but haven't "practiced" religious rituals in many, many years. He started going to church and confessed with a priest. Who was the one who told him he needed to be honesty with me in order to get Gods forgiveness. I guess religion has played an important role here...

It's good to know you have a Catholic background. When you ask for a sexual addiction counselor, try to find one who is also a Christian. A Christian who deals with sexual addiction will more likely have similar views to yours.

There are a couple of other books, but I didn't want to suggest them until I knew your faith:

Breaking Free: Understanding Sexual Addiction & the Healing Power of Jesus by Russell Willingham

False Intimacy: Understanding the Struggle of Sexual Addiction by Harry W. Schaumburg

The first book I suggested will get you started. The Breaking Free book may give you some spiritual guidance on the subject. And tell your husband that Christ forgave the woman with seven husbands, and then he told her to go and sin no more.

Your husband acknowledged he had a problem...step 1 is down. Step 2 is to get help and it sounds like that is where he is headed next. The next thing he will need is an accountability group. Wait and see what a counselor recommends and if they don't have something, I have lots of recommendations.

Dear TheRealArt,
I guess there isn't much I can do for my H now then. We'll have to wait and see what the specialist says and take steps after that.
I was wondering though, if you have advise for myself. I am having trouble coping with this. I wonder how your wife recovered/is recovering from this. What perspective has she gained to continue...
I have started taking medication for depression/anxiety and currently taking sleeping pills. Although I find peace at some times, most of the time I am shaken and want to cry.
Sorry for asking so much and taking advantage of your kidness, its just that hearing from you has helped feeling less lonely. Other infidelity stories do not seem to relate to mine.
Please send me any thoughts you might have.
Thanks a lot

I am Art's wife. I can certainly relate to your pain. NOTHING is more painful than realizing the man you love, commited your life to and have been faithful to has betrayed you on deepest and personal level. For some reason, we as wives (women), feel so much shame because of his behavior. Unfortunately, even after nearly 2 years and my husband is in 'recovery' I still deal with the pain.

One thing you need to grasp is THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. NOTHING you did caused it and NOTHING you can do will fix it. I spent years trying to fix the problem and finally came to the end of my rope. Finally I came to the point that I prayed God would reveal the problem and being the ONLY faithful One, He answered my prayer. It's too long of a story to go into here but the problem was revealed and Art came to a turning point in his life. Art has been on the journey to healing for 23 months. It has not been an easy road.

I would highly recommend Bethesda Workshop for SPOUSES of addicts. It isn't cheap, but it's well worth the $$$. You will certainly learn that you are not alone. I attend a group for spouses that meets weekly at our church. We don't get together to bash husbands as many would think. We get together to listen to each other and to give other women a 'safe' place to share our feelings. When I use the word 'safe' I mean a place that we can talk without fear of judgement. Unfortunately, many people we may choose to talk to about this problem, don't offer understanding but comdemnation---how sad! Stay clear of such people.

I'm glad to hear that your husband has realized he has a problem and is willing to seek help. Don't fool yourself into beieving if he gets 'help' and no longer behaves in this manner that all will be well. I encourage you to receiving counseling (again, Bethesda is great!) so you can learn how to set boundaries, communicate you needs, and survive even if you marriage doesn't.

You will survive this. My counselors have promised me if I invest in what it takes to heal I will look back and be glad I this happened. I'm not sure I'll ever get to that point, but just think, if someone didn't experience the pain, who would talk to the women that come behind us. I am certainly thankful for my counselors PAIN! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Take care!

I thought I would let my wife share some of her insight. She is so right when she said none of this is your fault. This type of problem is so diffent from many of the others people deal with. I finally accepted 100% responsibility for my problem and when I did it made a world of difference to both me and my wife. So again, the problem has not been about you, it's about he has had for a long, long, time and as you acknowledged it was even before you married.

Support groups are definitely needs for both the addict and the spouse of the addict. For the addict the support group allows them to share their struggles in a safe place. They know their problems are understood, they aren't mocked, and they are encouraged to do better. Plus the spouse does not need to know every mental struggle, they need to know setbacks, but not all the mental struggles. This is where the support group comes in. www.celebraterecovery.com www.sa.org are a couple of the support groups available. Sometimes they also have groups for the spouses, which is also important. I did find www.sarr.org which has some recovery information for spouses. Spouses also need a safe place to share their feelings. They don't need gossip, they need someone who understands what they are going through and they need support.

All of this does take an investment. If your husband works at this and keep accountable. If you learn how to keep the right boundaries and not let him cross those and you build a marriage together, you will have a strong committed marriage. You know you could divorce, hope for something better, but there is no guarantee.

And the counselor my wife mentioned, her husband was a sexual addict and they are still married and have a very strong marriage. In fact her husband leads a ministry helping men dealing with sexual addiction. They both are very committed to their marriage and they have dealt with some very difficult issues. And God has bless them and allowed them to help others.

One last thought, I know you are in a lot of pain and of this is very difficult. Your husband may have things he needs to tell, but is afraid. I am sure he had told some, but there may be hurts or other things of the past that might need to be told. Just tell him you love him, and although you are in pain yourself, you want the best for him too, and that means he needs to make sure all those hiddens things come up to the surface with the counseling. Things hidden in secret create a shame that makes a person feel they are horrible and evil, but exposed a person realized it's the sins and not the person who is horrible and evil.

Anyone can overcome a problem, the issue is how likely, in most cases addicts have limited or no success, they may even reduce their behavior, but have not really changed emotionally/psychologically. In best case scenario, they may come to fully understand the destructiveness of their behavior, and work hard at developing new coping mechanisms that protect them from remission, and become a reasonably competent friend, parent, employee, spouse. What is more likely is addicts change just enuf to keep people vested in their drama, and an unhealthy co-dependentcy results, sucking the life out of the enabling partner. If that is unacceptable (and they are left) they just seek out a more accomodateing, or weaker partner who will put up with them.

Keep in mind also, that unlike a chemical dependentcy, which is more likely to be "healed", personality disorders are more about who a person is...so even if the behavior is imporoved, the person is still the same, and that will impact other areas of the relationship, so needs to be considered as well. Whatever makes a person choose unhealthy behaviors is not cured by stopping the behaviors, and will require a lifetime of vigilance against backsliding, or substituting other undesireable behaviors... not necessarily a fun way to be married. Still, depending on whatever other "good" qualities that person may have, and the willingness of someone to accept the difficulty to get the good stuff, one can have a relationsip with such a person. That is where you are at numb111.

In your case, your entire relationship was a lie, this man did not share or even accept your boundaries, but wanted you to meet his needs, so decieved you into marriage. IMO, when such happens, there is no marriage, and one is free to go, and should divorce to restore fairplay, marriages built on lies are worthless. If he changes his behavior, and you want to date him, and remarry, that is fine, a level playing field. What happens often though, is an effort to pull the decieved spouse into the drama. They will change, but "need" your help, and can't do it without you...well, not true. If someone is truly worthy, and capable of permanent change, they will do it on their own, for themself, with or without you. It is of questionable value to sheild someone from the natural consequences of their behavior. A person who decieves someone into marriage, should lose the marriage. And be required to court you all over, and you have the right to date or not date them, as well as any others. Of course that also means you may "lose" the new improved version...but somehow I don't think you are worried much about that. What I think you are struggling with is feeling like you are "abandoning" him, and that is exactly what addicts depend on to keep someone hooked to them, don't let that normal healthy feeling, be twisted to your disadvantage in this circumstance. If you stay, do so cause you want this man as your husband, as he is now, and despite his dishonesty....don't stay out of some misplaced sense of obligation...you are free to go.

Thanks so much for all your advice. Thanks Art & wife for taking the time to write your thoughts and support through this hard time. It really gives me pespective on things and lets me feel less alone. I am living abroad, so I have no real friends or family around here... You all have helped a lot.
It seems SA is not the issue, and rather a problem with boundaries, frustration and disrespect, of course. At least that's where I am now.
Thanks a lot knight50 for your thoughts. I agree with you in so many ways that I know I am not crazy. Thanks for taking the time to put all those thoughts together in writting. It does help to clarify my feelings and thoughts.
Please keep posting with more thoughts. I'll update soon.
Thanks.

Numb, and Arts Wife,

I'd recommend the book "Boundaries in Marriage" by Townsend and Cloud.

My wife has actually read the Boundaries, Boundaries in Marriage, and Boundaries for Teens.....she understands the priniciples of healthy boundaries, it's holding them in place that she sometimes has a hard time with. Great books though and recommended reading!!!

You are welcome Numb, I will make one more suggestion. That being, "decide" what to do, be proactive, don't just go with the flow, and let circumstances swirl you down some unwanted channel. Figure this out, decide what you want, how to accomplish that, set into motion whatever actions you decide are needed, and go forward. That does mean setting boundaries and consequences as well. Where people typically go wrong, is they let circumstances happen, instead of taking control of their lives. You have been dealt a severe blow, but are more than able to use this as a life experience and grow from it, if you choose to do so. Maybe your h is worthy, maybe not, I have no way of knowing, but I will say his actions should be following his words, and include accounting for all his time, access to all his communications, and regular counselling, as well as respecting your boundaries, and meeting your EN's. If this doesn't happen, you have your answers as to likelihood of a healthy relationship with this man. Good luck.

I believe that anyone can change and do not believe that once a cheater always a cheater especially if the person is willing to change.