Recovery is hard. I don't know if we are progressing or staying stagnant. I don't know what is normal and what isn't.

I'm having a bit of a hard day today. I have been feeling very disconnected from Patriot. He started school to work on his master's degree. He has been gone a lot. When he has been home this week, a good portion of his time has been spent studying.

We did POJA the school thing. He said that he would quit in a minute - all I had to do was say the word. But, is that really what I want??? I don't want to ask that of him! I am proud of him and I am supportive of him continuing his education. I don't want it to hinder our progress (if we are, in fact, making any). I don't want to feel so distant from him.

It is very difficult, because when he does come home he seems to want to try to reconnect and talk or whatever, but it isn't always that easy. Sometimes it seems it takes hours of talking before we ever really reconnect and begin making some progress. About that time, it's bedtime or the phone rings, or SOMEONE or SOME OBLIGATION always gets in the way.

Lately, we don't even seem to be on the same wavelength. We don't communicate very well. A good deal of the things we say to each other get misunderstood and what little time we do have is spent trying to clear up those misunderstandings. The rest of the time is either spent bickering about trivial things or else it just feels like cordial politeness - like we are both just trying to pretend like everything is okay just to avoid a confrontation.

Are we doing something wrong? Is it possible that this is just a waste of both our time? Is it possible that I may NEVER heal? If I don't ever heal, or if I don't make progress rapidly enough - I am afraid that he will get tired of dealing with me and he will leave. He says that won't happen, but everyone has their breaking point. He also said he would never be unfaithful. I believed him then, too.

He still has never discussed all the details of the A with me. This is not entirely his fault. I don't know if I can take much more of it at this point. What I already do know is bad enough. I feel more than a little irritated that he waiting so long. Why couldn't he have just gotten this overwith in the beginning - when I was already in so much pain? Sure, I'm in pain a lot of the time now, but it is a much duller pain and I am not eager to go back to the darker side of things. The last time I came across a detail on my own - I didn't take it very well. It took me days and days to get a grip. It was even worse than before.

So, I'm very torn. On the one hand, I'm terrified to find out any more than I already know. Geez, it is SO darn painful to hear and to process. On the other hand, I wonder how much of a recovery we can hope to achieve with that constant wall of secrets in the way. It feels like a huge elephant in the room. I start asking questions in my head and feel distant - he knows it, but is afraid to ask. It's very uncomfortable and awkward for both of us.

He has done so much, and has made so much progress. I don't mean to sound ungrateful. I am grateful. It feels kind of sad, in a way, to be grateful. It feels sad because I read posts about other BS's who have it so much worse than I do. They may look at my situation and think "Why can't Frozen just appreciate what she has? I would give anything for my FWS to be making a fraction of the effort that Patriot is!" Let me tell you, it still isn't much fun being one of the "luckier" ones of this joyful club!

To that, I would say...I am grateful. Sure, at least he is here trying to help me and trying to do what he can. Will it ever really be enough? Were we just doomed from the start? Maybe I am incapable of healing from this. Maybe I am incapable of moving much further forward. I want it - I really do. I just don't know if I can! All of this is sure hard to accept - all that has happened.

Sometimes, like tonight, I start feeling so detached and very, very lonely and I start feeling kind of desperate. I called him on his cell phone. I was trying to catch him before class started. He knows that I am having a rough time of this today and he said that he would try to get home as soon as he could. Now, I feel bad because he will sit in class all night, probably being very distracted and worrying about me.

Is it wrong for me to burden him with all of this? Should I just try to work through it on my own? I don't want to worry him, and I don't want to make him feel guilty. A lot of the time if I express to him that I'm having a rough time - he starts feeling like a failure. I don't want him to feel like a failure! I don't think HE is failing!!!!

I think I am!!!!! Wouldn't anyone give up on this after so long? Who can live like that forever???

Could someone PLEASE offer me some perspective. I feel so lost and alone.

I feel like a hopeless cause. I don't want to keep burdening him when he is trying so hard.

froz, are you making time for each other? Date nights, recreational activities? Those things will help you connect and hopefully stay connected. Maybe you two should try writing a joint journel of your thoughts and events of the day to stay connected as well.

Hang in there and don't be afraid to tell Pat what you are feeling.

No, we are NOT making time for each other! He doesn't have time!

We usually e-mail each other back and forth all day long. It doesn't seem to help. Like I said, sometimes it takes hours of getting other stuff out of the way before we actually start making progress and truly connect.

I AM afraid to tell him what I'm feeling. I'm not sure if it is the right thing for me to do. I don't want him to feel like a failure, and that is what happens when I do talk to him about it. I'm not saying I should keep secrets from him, necessarily...but should I tell him EVERYTHING??? Should I try to work through some of this on my own so I don't burden him with it? I am very afraid that at some point, he will get tired of dealing with me and leave. He shouldn't be punished for his transgressions forever. I try not to punish him. But, just the fact that I am struggling so much is a bit of punishment for him. I'm sure it's a constant reminder. Who can live like this forever????

froz, I don't see it as punishing him to say that you are feeling disconnected and a bit lonely. Work together to find ways to connect. You have to make time for each btw. If not you will lose each other and for what?

Please sit down with Pat and POJA this. Work in some date nights or meet for lunch/coffee whatever on a regular basis.

Hi Froz,

I agree with FF. Its much more important to tell him how you feel. Its not a punishment to do this, its vitally important for your M.

If you are not doing enough fun things (filling ENs) together, R can definitely be stalled.

Well, I do tell him how I feel - always. It's very hard for me not to. I don't really have anyone else to talk to about this!

It just feels so counter-productive sometimes when I do, because he just winds up feeling guilty, or feeling like a failure - which makes ME feel like a failure for making HIM feel like a failure!

I try to praise him for the things he does for me. I tell him every day how much I appreciate all that he does, not just for me but for the household in general. He is a very hard worker. Sometimes, it seems like it would benefit him more if I would just paint on a happy face, despite how I feel inside. I am never able to do that, though. I am a horrible liar and he always sees right through me.

Maybe I am beyond help. Maybe, no matter how hard he tries it won't make any difference. Maybe I CAN'T heal.

froz, you are at a very critical stage in your own personal recovery. If my calculations are correct you are about 6 months out from dday? It seems to be a biggie for the bs. Give yourself a little space to breathe. Do some journaling of your thoughts and feelings. You do not have to tell Pat everything but you do need to be honest just as you want him to be honest. You are not beyond help!

So when you tell him how you feel - he feels guilty or a failure? Froz, this must be tough for him, but it is his responsibility. Its not your role to make him feel anything. I have read his posts before and he seems like a person who is able to handle himself. It is normal for many FWS to suffer intense guilt. This is not your responsibility to fix!

I don't think he wants you to put on a happy face. Its not healthy for you, and its not good for him in the end anyway.
I think he would want you to be honest and open, and trust him to cope with the consequences.

7 months, 1 week, 2 days

I think I already went through the infamous 6-month "Anger Stage".

Gosh, Smur. I know I am not responsible for his feelings, ultimately.

But here's a scenario:

He is having a perfectly good day at work. I am NOT having a perfectly good anything. I e-mail him telling him how horrible I feel inside. Now HE is having a crappy day because I just UNLOADED all of my pain onto him.

Does that seem fair? Does that not withdraw love units?

I'd be willing to bet, he is sitting in Calculus IV right now having trouble focusing because he is worried about how I am coping tonight, because I called him right before class sounding pretty despondent. He will be worried. Sometimes, if he gets really stressed out he gets these horrible cramp-like pains in his chest. The man is probably going to have some kind of heart attack because I dump my crappy thoughts and feelings on him. Either that, or eventually he may give up and leave. I know he says he won't, but...why would someone want to live with someone who consistently drags them down because THEY feel horrible inside?

Hi Froz,

The Calc. reference caught my eye tonight. I think you need to give yourself a bit of a break.

Likely Pat is letting the maths calm him. Maths are familiar. The rules don't change much and calc IV actually isn't that hard compared to some other stuff... :-) If you can give yourself a break about any crap-unloading earlier, it'll be easier for you to give Pat a break about it later by catching up a bit but no going overboard with apologizing or more unloading.

I've lurked around some of Pat's posts and it seems like you two are working really hard and loving each other even when you're upset. You should keep being very proud of this -- both of you!!!

I'm also thinking along the lines FaithfulFollower is about making time for fun. Sadly I am not in recovery (I still hope) but any time Phil and I do share now we try to share in a fun way. We discuss the business-y type things we need to and then move as quickly as possible into an activity.

We really learned that when we weren't on the same wavelength it was because we weren't doing enough fun things together - we were using all of our energy on TALKING. And usually, I was the one talking way too much. Because I wanted to get it all out and for a while I thought hey, I'm the BS, I should get to air all this! HA! I sure think differently now!

You're doing much better than I did if you can see that unloading might be a big LB... Good for you! I really admire that about you - that you can go outside yourself and consider Pat's reaction!

Oh yeah - One of the things Phil and I also know about each other now is that we can't watch TV in the house much. We are best outside. Often a trip to the local pub is enough to bring us back to normal with each other. And it has the added benefit of being public so we don't argue!

Sometimes we just go for a walk around the block.

But honest, wouldn't worry too much about his nerves doing the maths. :-) If he's a geek like me in that respect he's probably psyched to have his focus on the work for a while.

Good luck tonight. You're going to be fine. As the local vernacular goes -- You'll finger it out! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Sally

STILL?
Really?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Goodness Gracious.

Even after those last couple of threads you both had?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

OH well,
as I'm not on your goody list,
I'll simply wish you well.

Sally,

The math sure didn't seem to calm him down this week - quite the opposite. It had him pretty stressed.

As far as recreational companionship goes...that's about THE only interaction we have. There doesn't seem to be time for talking. Like I said, once we do have time, it usually takes quite awhile for us to connect and then start making some good progress. By then, something or someone always put a halt to it, so we never seem to get anywhere.

The hour a week at the MC is the most we talk all week. That hour never seems to be enough.

TR,




Where did you get THAT idea???

In all fairness to Patriot, there have been times where he has offered to answer my questions and I have weaseled out of it. I am terrified of doing it - for a bunch of reasons.

Well, whether or not it withdraws love units depends on how you do it, IMO. If you just tell him YOUR feelings in a plain way, and make sure to say you don't blame him for them, that they are YOUR feelings, I don't think that withdraws love units. It might not be easy for him, if it brings up his own feeligns of guilt, but he will have to deal with his guilt at some time anyway.

I am speaking as someone who would love my H to tell me his feelings more often, good or bad. An honest expression of feelings, done in a non-LBing way, adds love units IMO. Especially if you can listen to his feelings too. It may not be comfortable at the time, but after the turmoil subsides, it is almost always better for both parties.

I certainly do not believe that any FWS has left a BS in recovery because of too much disclosure of BS's feelings of hurt and pain, if its expressed in a non-blaming, non-LBing way. It clears the way for the good feelings to come through, IMO.

Also, I think he would be less stressed and worried about you when you are apart if he knows "Froz always tell me what she feels". He doesn't have to second guess you and try and judge how you are and what he should do about it, if he knows he can rely on you to be totally honest and straightforward about how you feel.