Hello, this is my first time here and I'm in need of help. My husband and I have been together for 14 years, the last 8 we've been married. We don't fight, we get along great, and love each other. The problem is that I don't think we are "in love" with each other anymore. He says we live like we are roomates, but there is no feeling there. We have 2 young children and have moved around alot. We have been through some hard times and I have always supported him in his life decisions. We do anything and everything for each other, but I think its not enough for my husband and me. He says that he married me because I'm his best friend and thinks that he was "in love" with me then, but over the years he has regreted decisions regarding staying with the marriage because he felt guilty in leaving. This because I was always there for him and that I'm a good person and great wife (he told me that I'm the best person he has ever met). He likes to be with me and loves me for who I am, but has fallen out of love. I believe that our kids have taken part of us away, because I'm a stay at home mom and have know one to watch them if my husband and I want to get away. It has taken its toll on me and I feel that over time we have stopped fulfilling each others emotional needs and taking care of one another, in exchange for the kids time. I have a way for someone to watch the kids now so we can go away and have some alone time, but my husband isn't sure at this point if its a good idea to go away together. He is at an impass right now and doesn't know if he wants to work things out, he says "I just need time"- to do what I don't know. I want desperately to work on our marriage and would do anything to regain what we once had, but how can I when I can't get him to decide. He says he still loves me and worries about what would happen to me if he leaves. I really believe that if we spend quailty time together alone, that with time we could find each other again. I just need him to want to try also.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Dear Quce,

You posted this message in the infidelity area of the MB forums, and yet you don't mention infidelity in your post.

That, along with the fact that I could have written your words myself last spring when my H was beginning to immerse himself into the world of adultery has set my warning sirens at high alert!

If I had known then what I know now, I would have changed some of the things I was doing, I was not meeting his most important emotional needs, because I had so much on my plate, and I thought he was a big boy who could take of himself while I was working so hard for us. WRONG ANSWER. Looking back I see that he was trying to let me know he felt his ENs were not being met, but I discounted his concerns because they seemed less important than work and school that would ensure our financial future. I mistakenly thought money was one of his greatest emotional needs, because he led me conclude that, but he was not all that clear on his own Emotional Needs. He was complaining about a couple of pounds I had gained. It was so easy to take them off, I should have just done that sooner. (Attractive Wife is one of his Greatest Emotional Needs.) This one is kind of tough, because feeling that I'm valued for more than my looks is one of my greatest ENs. I bring this up because this one is fairly common, actually, especially with stay-at-home moms who are happy in their role, and it does not necessarily have anything to do with your situation. Another one of his ENs that I was not paying much attention to, was SF. I was so tired, and not feeling very sexy, anyway...

At that point I had opened the door for another woman to come in and make my husband feel more special and valued than I made him feel. And that's exactly what happened. Very soon he was telling me things similar to those you say your husband is saying. My H was expressing dissatisfaction with a marriage that had been wonderful for years. But complacency can really ruin a "perfect" marriage.

If I were you I would start following Dr. Harley's principles right now! I would start by doing Plan A, which is Happily Meeting All of my H's ENs (or as many as humanly possible), there's more to it so be sure to find it on the site. If you can't find it, post here, and one of us will find the link for you.

I have a dark feeling that your husband may have met someone who makes him think he might be able to get his needs met elsewhere. That doesn't necessarily mean an A has started. I wish I had had the foresight to find MB and do the work before May of last year when my H consummated the sexual infidelity with the woman who seemed to offer more than I.

I congratulate you on getting here so apparently early, and I hope it's in time to prevent you from experiencing the pain of infidelity! Go fight for your man! And don't believe for a second he stayed with you for the kids. That sounds like re-writing history to me. You have a chance to make him sing a different tune.

Good luck,
Swords

All kinds of red flags in your posts. Don't want to alarm you but I recommend you call Steve H @ MB immediately.

Read the book His Needs/Her Needs ASAP. Your H is allowing himself to doubt his fidelity and his family. Dangerous place t/b. Someone c/b coaching him to feel this way.

Be careful.

take care,
L.

I did post in the wrong spot, but I truely believe that he is not having an A and I have asked him directly if there is someone else. He said no and I tend to believe him, but he did have an emotional relationship via e-mail/phone with a married co-worker about a year ago (he is no longer at that job). He and I got through it, but we never took the steps to change what it was he and I where lacking. So much always seemed to get in the way, between the kids and work we got lost. He did tell me that he has talked about our problems with a friend at work who happens to be female, but I have met her and I think its on the up and up. She and her family (kids and H)have been out with us and she seems honest. He says he is afraid of resenting me if he stays, but afraid of the unknown if he leaves. Which I think he means not knowing if he will miss me and what will happen to him being alone. My problem is that I don't want to push him away by tring to hard. He says to keep trying to talk to him and that hes not walking out the door tomorrow. I'm trying now to make him feel that our marriage is worth fighting for and that going away together is beneficial. He just doesn't think that its the right thing to do now.

Thanks for the response, I feel better just talking to someone about it because I don't have anyone I feel I can turn to about this.

How do I find out what his EN's are if he won't tell me. He says I do eveything for him, but I don't believe that if this is what it has come to. I got him to look at the questionare but he just thumbed through it.

I'm scared of loosing a fight that I don't know how to battle.

Hi Guce,

Welcome to MB! You've come to right place for answers and support!!

"He did tell me that he has talked about our problems with a friend at work who happens to be female, but I have met her and I think its on the up and up. She and her family (kids and H)have been out with us and she seems honest."

>I know we probably sound like a bunch of cynics, but there is wisdom here that you should take heed. Please don't think that just b/c your families do things together that things are on the up and up. Even if this woman is married, have kids, is unattractive, overweight, or have strange quirks, doesn't preclude your H from building an emotional attachment to her. Many A's are built upon simple conversations alone - b/c that fills a BIG EN for many people. Now, this is not to say that they aren't just friends (I've had very platonic male friends with whom I've discussed my marital problems too), but we simply want you to look at things for what they are and not what you want them to be - esp. if your H has had an EA before. I almost think of them as "teasers" if they've not been dealt with properly.

With this said, one should always be cautious when a man and a woman discuss marital problems outside the M. I hate to be an alarmist, but this is how my A started ... with someone who's FAR less of a man than my H simply b/c he was willing to listen and pay attention to me.

"He says he is afraid of resenting me if he stays, but afraid of the unknown if he leaves. Which I think he means not knowing if he will miss me and what will happen to him being alone."

>I concur with your interpretation. This is how I felt too.

In your initial post, you said: "He says that he married me because I'm his best friend and thinks that he was "in love" with me then, but over the years he has regreted decisions regarding staying with the marriage because he felt guilty in leaving."

>Again, this sounds awful like fog-talk. Meaning, when someone is in an EA or PA, they aren't very receptive to their S fulfilling their EN. Instead, they feel confused - on one hand, they feel guilty for their feelings or actions; and on the other, they feel they "deserve" the right to be happy. The good news is, it's a great sign that your H admitted that he was "in love" with you at one point. Then, he knows there's hope that it can come back. That's probably why it's such a struggle for him. I'd know. I was just there not too long ago.

"My problem is that I don't want to push him away by tring to hard."

>This is a toughie b/c if you push too hard, he'll feel crowded yet if you do nothing, you'll lose your M. My suggestion is that you keep things light. Have fun. Go on dates. Flirt. Unfortunately, going on vacation places a lot of pressure on both of you, and if things don't go well, you'll be disappointed and discouraged. You must be strong and can't afford that right now. If you can, do lots of things together that are fun and entertaining so as to keep your and your H's mind occupied. Try to avoid too many serious relationship talks for now. Even if there is no "OW," you're competing w/ a phantom that's more fun & exciting than your M. Does this make sense?

Keep your chin up and keep posting!

U take the EN questionnaire once as yourself and once as him. Find it in the concept section above.

Read the books recommended. Even if the A isn't or wasn't physical, remnants of it still remain and he is vulnerable to another.

Go get MC ASAP. Steve w/b your best call and dollar spent.

Don't wait. You and your H are not in recovery.

L.

Thanks for the advice. But I'm not sure what to do with it, do I say to him its not a good idea to talk to his friend because of what could happen. Will he just resent me for not letting himself vent to her. He doesn't have friends that he hangs out with to talk to and he has always had issues with making friends with men since before we got together. I think it stems from his father and his childhood. He has told me he has trouble talking to me about this stuff because all I do is come up with ways of tying to fix it, I'm not objective about it. He doesn't have people he can turn to to talk about it. He not interested in getting M/C, should I have him post here?
I just don't want him to hate me for saying "I don't want you to talk to her anymore", then hes back to square one and things might get worse.

Do you think it would make things worse if I pulled out some old keepsakes/pics from the early days when we were happy or would that just pressure him? I thought reminding him of how we did feel would bring back some good feelings. Maybe it would just make him feel worse, I don't know. Men are so frustrating, I just wish he had told me how he felt sooner so we could have gotton help a long time ago when things were not so bad.

Thanks for letting me vent
Sorry its so long

"He doesn't have friends that he hangs out with to talk to and he has always had issues with making friends with men"

>Then have him visit w/ a pro-marriage MC, a female one if he must.

"I just don't want him to hate me for saying "I don't want you to talk to her anymore", then hes back to square one and things might get worse."

>Often, this is a matter of presentation. First of all, let him know how much you care for him and that you understand that his decision must be excrutiating. Then, let him know that it's not that you're wanting to control him or not allow him to have outlets but rather that it may behoove him to go to someone who truly can understand without external biases, who can not only provide the outlet but also some constructive, unbiased advice/guidance. Ask him to reconsider visiting w/ a pro-M MC (or IC) who is experienced in dealing with EA/PA's.

And, if he is absolutely adament on not visiting a MC, then definitely have him post here. There are lots of FWS (like me) who has been there, done that and are ready to help him through make a decision. (Note I said make a decision v. come back to the M. Since this approach is to his benefit, it will help relax him.) Believe me, I couldn't have done it w/o the wonderful community here @ MB!!

Hang in there and have faith!!

warning same thing happened with my h and the ow. he lied and she lied i was clueless. do something now bwfore it goes ant futher. he should be talking to you instead of her about your relationship. this is very similar to what mine started out as

Heed this wonderful advice! My husband and I made the huge mistake of not "dating" after our DS was born. I know that contributed to our growing apart and his A(among other things). I thought that our M was strong enough not to worry about it.

Make time for you H now and let the other things go(working so hard). I also made the mistake of feeling like I had to "do it all" - except take care of the EN's of my H. I worked outside of the home, cleaned ALL the time(& yet my house always seemed dirty), and even started working a Home based business in the evenings.

Slow down, Find out what is going on with your H. I wish I had -

Blessings,

Kim
D-day May 14th
DS, 5
Still working on NC

Thanks for all the responses. My H and I are supposed to go to to the water park and have a BBQ at the house of the female co-worker that I spoke of, this weekend. We have gone with her and her H/kids before and it wasn't a big deal. Now that we are having problems and he isn't sure if he wants to stay with me should we still go? Should I just stay home so he has his space and let him take the kids or just the opposite and make sure I fill his ENs and have a good time with me there?

I know now after getting all your responses that he should not confide in an opposite sex friend and it can just lead to problems, so I figure we shouldn't go at all.

I mentioned in a gentle way to him the advise I had received and he was quiet for a moment and I said that if he truely has no intentions in talking with her then I would believe him and still go to the water park, an also if he talks to someone else it would be better for us in the long run. He said that I guess we will still go this weekend then. He later said I love you when we hung up on the phone, which he hasn't done in a couple of days and he seemed more up beat. I don't want to be a fool so I will keep my eyes wide open.

Should I go still? Or is this a mistake, I know if I ask him to stop talking to her he will resent me for not allowing him to have friends to talk to. And it would make him uncomfortable at work being around her.

It's very difficult for me to respond to your post.

First of all, have you read through all the MB material? You must share his recreational activities, so this PRECLUDES your allowing him to go on this outing without you.

This is where I screwed up: I trusted my husband to go have fun without me because I was too busy with my school and work, and the intimacy of his friendship with the other woman led him to having the physical and emotional affari with her.

Now a condition of our reconciliation is that we do all recreational activities together, we have fun together as per the Harley Plan. It is a huge mistake to allow him to go by himself, especially if this friendship is developing between your H and this female coworker.

Also per the Dr. Harley's MB plan, you should not have complete Trust in one another, complete Trust opens the door to Affairs. This is another MB principle that we have adopted in our Marriage. I don't want him to trust me completely, I want him to be vigilant over me to protect me from predatory males, and I will be vigilant over him to protect him from predatory females. This, for me now, after having gone through the PAIN of his Affair, is a dealbreaker for me.

I cannot see the benefit AT ALL of your husband talking to someone else, nor can I see how it could POSSIBLY be better for your Marriage in the long run. NO Way, Jose!

I think it is a good sign that he said he loved you on the phone.

However, I asked my husband point blank if he was with another woman a few weeks into his Affair and he looked me in the eye and lied. This was a man who has rarely lied to me in 22 years!!

I think his continuing to confide in her about your marriage is a breech of trust in your marriage; It may be time to call the Dr. Harley.

YOu are not trying to stop him from having friends to talk to, but you'd better make damn sure that any friends he has are your friends too, and friends of your marriage.

This was another huge mistake I made, I didn't think it would cause him harm to be around people who had not proven to be friends of our marriage. Another WRONG ANSWER. He can have female friends, as long as they prove that they are also your friends and they support your staying married to each other, and encourage the both of you to be happily married to each other.

It seems to me that if this friend was a friend of your marriage he would not be getting any validation that it might be time to let go of the marriage.

I have a MAJOR problem that he thinks he can't talk to you, his wife. This to me, would be an unacceptable deal-breaker, in fact it is a deal-breaker in my marriage, now that I am wiser to the dangers of having your emotional need for communication filled by someone outside the marriage. This is what led to my husband's emotional (and Physical) affair.

If your husband is not already in an Affair either Emotionally or Physically, he is on the verge, by everything you have stated: he no longer values the marriage, he doesn't want to confide in you thereby sharing his emotional need for intimate conversation, (he wants that need filled by someone else) and he's not interested in fixing things by trying Marriage Counseling, because he has already entered the state of Withdrawal.

It is frustrating to see this because I feel like I'm watching a car accident in slow motion!!

YOU ARE IN TROUBLE, GIRL. If I were you I would start doing PLAN A and I wouldn't mention that to him right now. And I would read HIS NEEDS/HER NEEDS and started filling all of them if you don't know what they are. The toughest one you're going to be able to fill is the communication need because he is obviously choosing to allow that one to be filled somewhere else.

Thank God, My H and I are in Recovery and Life is Sweet right now, but it hurts my heart to read your words and see the same naivete that allowed my husband to hurt me more deeply than any other thing has ever hurt me in my entire tragic and pain-filled life. Your trouble is you trust him too much. There is such a thing as trusting too much. PLEASE spend every spare minute reading the MB website; here are some places to start:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5024_qa.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3615_state.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5059_qa.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3803_honesty.html

Know that whether he goes or not, he is still quite unstable. You need to decide whether his unstable behavior c/b tolerated at that gathering.

It's a 50/50 tossup so know that he will never be satisfied regardless of whether he goes or stays. Do what is best for you and your family. Tell him he needs to decide which way he should go and let him make that decision. This will lessen his ability to blame you. Believe me, those WS work hard at finding things to blame a BS for.

L.

We talked when H got home last night and he told me that the friend said he owes our M a honest try and she wants to watch the kids so we can go out on a date. I thinks she true and a friend of the M. My H wants me to go so much and maybe its a good recreational activitiy, even if its with the kids. Its been longer than I can remember since we have been out alone.

My biggest problem is that I don't know how to approach him without him getting defensive. I have read through the MB website, printed sections and even used highlighter. But I can't get him to look at the EN questionare or get him to open up about his ENs. I want him to trust me and confide in me, but I think that he is afraid of hurting me and thats why he has gone outside the M. He has gotton more physical with me, which is a good sign because he has always had a high EN for sex. I just need to figure out how to let him open up to me without feeling pressured.

Thanks for all the advice, it has really helped. I mentioned to my H he should come here to talk, but he is wierded out talking to poeple he doesn't know. He's not real thrilled that I'm posting. But he understands why I'm doing it, I think I might be able to bring him around though.

"My H wants me to go so much and maybe its a good recreational activitiy, even if its with the kids. Its been longer than I can remember since we have been out alone."

You should absolutely go!!! Anything that can help him associate you/the family with fun, light-heartedness and love is ALWAYS a good thing. Don't miss out on opportunities to show him how fun, light-hearted, independent and loving you can be. Remember, I said this in my 1st post ...

Even if there is no "OW," you're competing w/ a phantom that's more fun & exciting than your M. Does this make sense?

Please keep this in mind. And, again, keep the serious "relationship talks" to a minimum at this point. It'll just make him feel cramped.

- If you really want to know what's in a WS's head, ask a WS/FWS. We've been there, remember?

Keep posting.

Well, did you end up going to the picnic? If so, how did it go? I took my H to a BBQ this weekend and I thought about you. Hope all went well.

thanks for thinking of me, things were uncomfortable but not for the reasons you think. I confronted the friend and said point blank that I like her alot and we both have fun together and I appreciate her helping my H. And she said she understood about my concern with her and my H, especially after hid EA last year. She said that she wasn't sure what to expect from me and was nervous. So we broke the ice and started talking about my H and what he has told her, she even said after he and I had the big talk about everything (which was after he disclosed everything to her first), that he came back to work the next day very upbeat and he said he was optimistic about our future (which he never convayed to me). She wants to help us but its my H I don't get.

She and I hit if off all night and would talk about all sorts of things, including him when he wasn't close enough to hear and when he was gone. My H saw this and said to me later that he was a little weirded out by how well we got along. He was quiet all night long towards me, I gave him lots of chances to be affectionate but he stayed aloof. I noticed that when he would engage in conversations with the group he would always look to her for some kind of reaction or approval and never looked at me. Later when we were talking I was sitting in a chair and he was near the kids playing by this couch, which she was laying on. When he sat up she gave him a pillow to lay against the couch near her midsection. So am I just being sensitive or should'nt he have come lay by me and my chair?

She "seems" like she wants us to work out, she already wants me to go on a girls night out with her and go dancing and her, her H, H and I all plan to go out next weekend possibly. She wants to take me shopping for non-mommy clothes and hang out with me. She even suggested I spend a day with her H and the kids because he's off for the summer (teacher)and has their kids. So she is a really open person and wants me to make myself happy, doing the things that I should have done for myself along time ago to be excited about life again. The things she knows my H misses in me.

Its just hard when I know my H feels more connected to her because she is someone new, outgoing, and listens to him. I know he confides in her alot and now that I'm doing the same I hear from him things that I said to her that she mentions to him. I don't think we should put her in the middle of this and turn her into our counselor. He even said to me that he wasn't sure if I was "keeping my enemies closer" by hanging out with her so much at the BBQ.

At this point I'm actively persuing all the things that will make me happy, but he is hard to be around because he still has a bad attitude about it all and I told him so. So he says he will try to be better.

We'll see

Who did he have an emotional affair with last year?

Let's say he is having an affair with this co-worker, how would he contact her? Cell phone? Computer? Land line?

Why does he view her as an "enemy?" I have to tell you, that I smell an affair here and think you should start doing some intensive investigating.