Six weeks since d-day and eight days since I discovered MB. I don't really know why I'm posting this except that it's 3:30 AM, I can't sleep and if I sit and stare at the TV any longer I'll shoot myself.

Wife admitted her affair on May 11 after denying it for 3 weeks. Found her taking birth control pills when we weren't having sex. Funny thing is that our new baby was HIS baby. Went into the most intense psychic shock of my life (I'm 52), didn't eat or sleep for 4 days. You all know the story.

Wife said she was SO sorry and begged for a chance to rebuild our marriage. Said she had broken off the affair and wanted to give our marriage the chance she never gave it before. I love her and the baby and my family is the most important thing in my life (we have 2 other children). I agreed to try.

I am retired and had been staying home and taking care of the baby while wife worked. Did nothing but brood and suffer all day long. Found to my immense joy and relief that knowlege of his paternity made no difference in my feelings toward my new son. He is a wonderful baby. No comfort from my wife. She wanted to act as if nothing had happened. Refused to discuss any aspect of the affair other than to say it was over and I should be happy that she chose to stay in the marriage instead of leaving. Found out by bits and pieces that the affair was two years old and that she was in love with her Partner in Adultery.

Searched the web for some understanding of my situation and ways to cope with my agony and found MB. I learned that I had instinctively been applying plan A and found ways to refine it. I applied it with a new understanding and determination and pushed my own feelings to the side. During this time while attending marriage counseling my wife recovered memories of multiple childhood rapes that she had repressed for 25 years. I was the first person she ever told about this and I was there when she went to pieces. No chance it was faked. Broke my heart to see the woman I love in such pain and made it much easier to continue with plan A.

Saw some very positive changes in our relationship. We were giving each other affection and attention that we never had before in our marriage. Physical contact which she admitted had always made her uncomfortable became easy and full of good feelings. Hugs and kisses where she didn't pull away. No sex but intimate and even sensual touching, mostly by me but more and more by her. Even hand holding which she had never allowed before. I saw plan A working just like it was supposed to and felt that I had my wife's heart for the first time if only just a little bit.

Father's Day weekend we went out of state to a family affair and stayed at a hotel. Two rooms, one for an aunt and one for us. Very nice, even romantic. Family mostly stayed in the aunt's room which gave us time for intimacy and allowed us to enjoy each other's company. Even took a shower together for the first time in years. On Father's Day she called me form her aunt's room and asked me to bring her her cell phone so she could call someone. Seemed odd since it was 8 AM and early for a call. Then it hit me, it was Father's Day! On a hunch I listened to her messages and yep, you guessed it, there was a long tearful message from him. He expressed sorrow that he was not going to see 'his' son on Father's Day and said how much he missed her and the baby. He also said that he had gotten her message and thanked her for thinking of him.

So it seems she never broke off the affair. She has lied repeatedly for the last six weeks whenever I asked her if they had spoken. She always said no. When I confronted her she had the predictable reactions but claimed that there had been no physical, only telephone contact. As if that were a big distinction. She also said in part "I guess I'm busted" and "So I lied to you, so what?". That was three days ago and it's d-day all over again.

Now I understand why she put me in Hell and left me there alone. Now I know why she has resisted even looking at MB. Of course the affair is a taboo subject, it's still going on. Even if it's the truth that there has been no physical contact (and I have every reason in the world to trust her word) how long before that occurs? My first reaction was to pack a bag and leave that night. I didn't and by the next morning had found a new determination to proceed with plan A. Wrote her a 3 page letter which reaffirmed my love and determination to save our marriage, left it on her pillow with a rose I cut from the bush outside our home. She called it "beautiful" and it earned me a smile and a hug.

Now here's the rub. There's this big heavy spiked ball inside me. It's spinning around and bouncing from my chest to my stomach and back again. Yesterday the alarm went off and I turned to her for a good morning kiss and hug and the thought hit me like a 2x4 between the eyes. "She's still with him". I jumped out of that bed like it was on fire. It's kinda hard to keep up with plan A when I know she's still involved with the man who helped her to destroy my life. She has said again that she will break off all contact with him but refuses to offer ANY gestures of reasurance or evidence of her desire to earn my trust back. She said that she didn't feel she had to earn my trust and that it will come back on it's own. I know that without plan A the marriage is over and she responds very well to it. But it's almost impossible for me to keep it up any longer. I keep thinking "she's stil with him". Only my guts and determination will pull us through at this point and it scares the hell out of me that I may not have what it takes. I want to save my marriage and have my wife's love more than anything else in the world. I know that the obvious conclusion to the above is that I should move out and I'm sure that if anyone responds to this post that it will be their advice as well. My heart doesn't agree. The small, lovely moments we have shared these past few weeks ahve been glimpses of heaven and I know, also in my heart of hearts, that these moments were genuine irregardless of any other lies or deceits. So I am continuing on at this point but have no clue as to how to proceed.

I konw this is a long post and if you've read this far I thank you and salute your endurance. I am the kind of person who writes things down. It helps me to organize chaotic thoughts and emotions and gives me a clearer picture of what is going on inside me. I could have written this in my journal but chose this medium instead on the off chance that someone might offer a plan or some words to pin my hopes on. Hope, and strength, are what I'm a little short of right now.

Hi CampDog.

I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. I've been trying to follow your posts when I can and I was excited about the progress you and your wife seemed to be making. It saddens me greatly to see this post tonight.

Please remind me -- Is No Contact an option for your situation, with the baby?

I know this sounds trite, but you are doing the right thing, and her behavior is not that unusual for a WS so soon out of DDay.

Some very firm lines need to be drawn by you, and drawn now. You can do this and still be in Plan A mode, loving, caring, etc. But your WW needs to know that you will not be trod upon in this time!!

Are you comfortable with this? Feel ready to implement it?

sending you both hope and strength,

StillLovingHim

*edited to add -- please forgive my brusque & abbreviated response -- been up all night and lying in bed with the tablet pc, trying to think about sleep. BTDT, huh?

Glad you wrote CD. You may find even more support on the preg/child board. Keep posting here also.

As for your W's trust issue, she is wrong. She does have to earn your trust back. She can't just expect you to get over it. The OM is still in her life. Is he recognized as the father on the birth certificate? Did you have a paternity test done?

Please consider calling Jennifer C @ MB for some phone cousenling. It w/b good for you 1st, then for W if she is willing to participate.

I believe right now she is placating your efforts and that is one reason why you don't feel like staying in plan A anymore.

Read Surivivng an Affair along with Love must be tough. The 1st is by Dr W. Harley and the 2nd book is by Dr. James Dobson.

Also His Needs/Her Needs c/b a good book but I think your W has other issues that she is allowing to keep her in the A comfort zone.

IMHO, it is time to stop plan A. Talk with Jennifer 1st.

take care,
L.

Hiya Still. Funny, I have read your posts as well. Comrades-in-arms I guess. Thanks for trudging through my ramblings.
I HAVE told my wife that this is my line, my boundary. I told her that I had every intention of going on with trying to save the marriage but that it was incredibly hard to do so when I knew she was still carrying on her affair. I told her that the harder she makes it on me the harder it is to show her my love and the more I focus on my own pain and anger. I assured her that I would keep up in my efforts until I had no strength or will to go on.

For her own part she has told me that she will break off all contact with her Partner in Adultery but has not offered any time frame for doing so or any assurances that she will inform me when she has done it. And of course she told me six weeks ago that she had already broken off all contact and it has proved to be a string of lies. If she told me the same thing now I have no way of knowing if it's not yet ANOTHER lie and would take no comfort or hope from such a statement. Our MC told her last night that if she didn't break off all contact that there was zero chance of saving our relationship and I think she believed him but who knows if that will motivate her to break it off?

If we remain together No Contact is not only an option but essential no matter what happens concerning visitation between the baby and his father. Orchid, I already have a thread on this topic in the Pregnancy/Child forum. I want the SOB to pursue his 'rights' through the courts but my wife wants to just let him have the baby once a month right away. I have decided to let her do whatever she wants concerning the baby without any input from me. I have no faith in her keeping any agreement we reach since it's apparent that she'll simply do what she wants anyway and then lie about it. Why should I allow her to hurt me again with more lies? Her actions will determine mine as they have all along. If she dumps enough LBs on me then we are finished no matter how much effort I put into working it out.

Just wandering around looking for something to do until I send the kids off to school. Thanks for reading my drek.

I'm glad you wrote, I find that articulating my thoughts on paper leads me to better clarity, also.

Your situation is very tough, and yes, the obvious choice would be Plan B. But in your situation I wouldn't do it, and I'll tell you why.

Apparently, you are listed on the child's bc as the father. I would not want to lose the baby I'm bonding with, for one, and the baby is a hold both you and the OM are holding to connect you to her. He is in every way but biology your son, it sounds. I think I would get a consultation with a good lawyer who specializes in paternity suits, just to find out what your rights, and potential challenges are in your state's legal code. I know of several biological fathers who never claimed their child in similar situations. (Right in my own family in fact.) There is a chance the OM is the kind that would rather not do the family thing in reality or maybe has a family already, helping your cause. Otherwise why wouldn't your wife have left and created a 'happy little family' already with him. Something seems to be amiss.

If these assumptions should turn out to be in line with the facts, than WW is living in a fantasyland of what life could be with OM. As you are well aware, it has nothing to do with reality. For now continue Plan A, and research the situation and the legal code. Are you the financial provider in your M? This could also bolster your position.

There has never been a time in your life that requires more clarity and calculated thinking. Find out everything you can, and continue to Plan A your [censored] off. You can deal with the fall-out of your own emotions once you are clear of the danger zone.

Use this time you'll spend researching and doing Plan A to evaluate whether you can stomach Moving On. There may come a point where you will have to go to Plan B. If it comes to that do it for yourself. Many times it takes Plan B for the WW to come to her senses. By that time, you may find you don't want her, but she will want you. I've seen it right before my eyes.

Good Luck, and I'm terribly sorry you had to join us.
Swords

Nor will most of us agree that moving out is the answer. Not if you want to save your marriage.

If one of you needs to move out, let it be her, with you staying in the family home with the kids. Allow her to face the repercussions of her poor choices. Dealing with real life very quickly removes the fantasy and excitement of the affair and/or continued contact.


Please consider calling Steve for a counseling appt. Campdog, recovering and rebuilding your marriage, Plan A, etc does NOT mean becoming a doormat. It does not mean conceding to contact with the OM just because you feel she'll do it anyway and lie. You HAVE to have a POJA (enthusiastic agreement!!) in place to feel heard,, to feel understood and appreciated in marriage. Without this you WILL EVENTUALLY become bitter and feel unappreciated. I know you think you're strong and she's the one that needs special counseling for her issues but you need help too. This recovery stuff is NOT easy!!! Consider calling Steve!

ditto Nerly

Campdog,

Going to throw my two cents in on this subject, take it for what it's worth. From your well written story I have been given certain facts.

1) Your wife has not done even one action that I would deem positive in her whole mess. Every positive that you cite is in response to YOUR M saving efforts.

2) Your unbelievable kindness in your acceptance and care for the OC, coupled with her continued lies and deceptions bodes very poorly for your M. Against most MB principles, I feel that this situation cries out for Plan B, ASAP. Since her A is continuing unabated, her cuckold H is caring for the OC, this woman needs a rapid and overwhelming dose of " Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions". Get her out of the house as quickly as possible and hopefully into the arms of the OM. Let reality do what your kindness NEVER WILL.

You have absolutely nothing to lose. The wife you knew and loved is gone and will never return. Don't let your BS "fog" permit you to make hopefull interpretations out of each and every "she really loves me" occurence.

Your establishment of rigid boundaries NOW is the only hope you have of starting a new M relationship with your W. Appeasement now will only start the inevitable cycle of false recovery proceeding to another D-Day ad nauseum.

You are one hell of a man. Don't let your WW rob you of that.

CY:

You are a very honorable and intelligent man and one of my favorite posters here. This advice given above should be PINNED up for all BS to heed and follow. This is the essence of personal "recovery".

How have you been?

LM

Lemon,

Thank you for your very kind words.

I am at almost 15 months since I left my home and have not seen nor heard from my WW except for one brief moment on the road . She saw me pull up behind her and she almost rearended the car in front of her. I still have the blood pressure rise on that kind of occasion but like our interaction , it is rare indeed. I have been quite busy filling out interrogatories as per her lawyer's demands and we are battling through our lawyers as to the community property split. It is my desire to liquidate everything but she apparently would like to hold on to any remnant of her ill gotten gain. The illusion of social standing and the appearance of a stable personal life have always been much more important than actually working at any of those goals. She has always lived a fantasy life and I have to admit that for the past 8 years I had been the "pusher" for that fix. I have no knowledge that her romances with assorted beaus is uninterrupted, nor do I care( at least not very much).

My mom continues to deteriorate and I am flying home tonight to help her celebrate her 81st birthday.

How goes it with you Lemon?

Checking in to see how you are doing. I agree with Cy, Lemonman, Nerly & Pep. YOu need to id your boundaries and implement them.

Women as a group c/b difficult to handle. Seems like some of our gender want to make the guys suffer. Boy we c/b good at it.

Learn that a WS craves drama and chaos. Remove yourself from it.

L.

I thank you all humbly from the bottom of my heart for reaching out to a stranger. I value your input and thoughts, I spend entirely too much time wrapped up in my own thoughts. You all are a lifeline to a man drowning in emotions.

Cym, I see from your post that you have given my situation some thought. Thank you for that. But it made me reread the entire thread since my first reaction to your words was surprise. I can see that I have given a rather one sided view of what is going on. Please understand that I am currently experiencing alll the torments of d-day as fresh and raw as the first time around and it's hard to do anything but focus on my own feelings. I do apologise and I'd like to balance the scales a bit if I may.

My wife was the victim of childhood rape as I stated in my first post. It happened to her from around age 8 to around age 11. She repressed these memories even from herself for 25 years. When they surfaced as a result of marrige therapy I was the first person she ever told. That is a positive thing to me. As a result of the rapes my wife built a strong personality that would protect her from being hurt in such a horrific way again. But it was a child who built that protection in the only way she knew how. She decided that no one would ever touch her again, both emotionally and physically. If she couldn't be touched then she couldn't be hurt. Add to that the fact that my wife is African, not American. She was raised in a culture where children and women are given little if any value. She was taught from the beginning that expressing her emotions was neither appropriate or allowed. She has told me of being slapped for 'talking out'. She was also not raised by her parents in a loving atmosphere. She was a virtual orphan, going from relative to relative and never staying in any home more than a couple of years. I knew none of this when I married her. I thought that since she was 17 years my junior that I had learned life lessons that were down the road for her and decided I would give her the time to grow.

As our marriage progressed I saw positive growth in her personality but no progress towards the emotional and sexual realationship I craved. She was unable to grow in this regard because of the reasons I cite above. Again, I had no knowlege of her horrific past, I thought she just didn't care. As a result I became an angry, bitter, fat and slovenly spouse. I only entered counseling two years ago as a last ditch attempt when she asked me for a divorce. Even then she agreed to stay and give it a try. Positive?

My wife mostly refused to atend MC for the next two years for reasons that are clear now. She was having an affair. But since I attended counseling religiously I was able to see that my own personality had been shaped by childhood abuse as well. In my case it was emotional and physical, not sexual. I can see why I have never been able to have a lasting relationship with any woman. After two years I am rage and alcohol free for the first time in my life.

Since my wife's revelation of her affair she has confessed in therapy that she hated to be touched by any man and disliked and avoided sex until she met her lover. It's plain to see what difficulty she has in putting her feelings into words. But now, as a result of her trying to respond to MY needs she is expressing her love to me and initiating physical contact for the first time in our marriage. Small things it's true but they are there nonetheless. She sits next to me now instead of on another couch. She kisses me spontaneously instead of pulling away when I kiss her. She no longer stiffens when I hug her. She asks me for gestures of love where she rejected them before. She has even approached me sexually which is something she NEVER did before. It was always me who took the initiative. These are positive things to me especially when I take the time to consider the enormous effort it takes to overcome a lifetime of conditioning. I know what a huge effort it was to change my own personality. Could she have learned these things from her partner in adultery? Undoubtedly she did but I also find it positive that she has learned these things at all.

Cym you speak of the 'unbelievable kindness' of accepting my new son. It's no kindness and it takes little effort on my part. My son is not a symbol, he's a person with all the wonder and joy and needs of any other baby. He and my other son are a source of happiness and unconditional love in an otherwise pretty bleak existence. You say I 'have absolutely nothing to lose' and that 'The wife you knew and loved is gone and will never return'. I know I'm changing your meaning somewhat but losing that person is not neccessarily a bad thing since I was never able to connect with her, or she with me, in ten years of marriage. I still have hope that a newer and better version of my wife is starting to emerge, however slowly. Am I being a fool, a BS lost in the 'Fog"? Maybe. How can I know? It's hard to be sure of ANYTHING at this point. What I AM sure of is that it's my decision to quit or continue on hope and right now at least I choose hope.

My wife is still lying to me and has not ended her affair. But I have learned from my readings here and in other places that this behavior is sadly common. Whether it is only phone conversations with him as she claims or more makes little difference to me emotionally. I have made this clear to her and both myself and our MC have told her that there is no chance our relationship can survive if she continues contact with her partner in adultery. This is my line in the sand that can't be crossed, my boundary, and I think she knows it. I can't MAKE her do anything and I have no trust in her words. I do know that if she doesn't take her head out of her [censored] I won't last till the Holidays.

Yet another ridiculously long post and I admire the stamina of anyone who has gotten this far. I write this stuff for myself as much as for the guidance I hope to receive and I will print out this thread to keep forever. God bless you all at MB and know that I pray for you in your times of trouble. No one should have to bear the load we share. Thank you for helping me bear mine.

Campdog:

Posted a reply over at P/C.

Gotcha. Thanks Boss.