DGB -

This is what I wrote when I finally came out of my fog and returned to my H 5 weeks ago ...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2734797

I share it to give you hope. If you read some of my earlier posts, you'd never believe that I'd write something like this. (I certainly didn't.)

With that said, let's talk about Plan B for a sec. Why are you still talking to your W? Unless it's to let her know when you'll be picking up your daughter or that you need to resolve some bills/household necessities (which you can also send via email), I'd suggest that you cut everything off. Let her miss your phone calls for once. Let her feel the loss. That's what WS's need to get over the fog. Keep in mind, you're doing this for HER and for your family!!! Keep your goal in perspective at all times, and it should make the tasks seem a little easier.

"W got on the phone and wanted to chat about the things I'm doing to impove myself."

>This is her way of staying in control. Don't let her have the upper hand. Yes, this does sound like a game. The name of the game is called Plan B. When she baits you like this, just say your goodbyes, or, better yet, let her know that you've got something to do or somewhere to be. Can't talk right now, etc. Get caller ID. Screen her calls. Unless it's an emergency, wait a day or 2 then return her calls. Let her wonder. I know the last thing you want is to play games, but, again, keep your eyes on the prize. Re-read my post a few times if you need to give you hope and focus. Plan B is hard. You can do it!

Well Whisper your right. It is HARD. I did well. only contact was to confirm pick-up and drop-off of DD. Pick up was sat 5pm drop off mon 10am. This was completly confirmed Fri evening. All day saturday my home and cell phones were ringing guess who. Did no answer. I did call back at 4 to let her know i was on my way. Asked why she called so much and she said she wasnt sure of the plans. Whatever. Truth came out later when she tells me that DD shouldnt stay at anyone elses house just mine. That was rather confusing to me I asked her what she meant. She thinks because I am taking our DD on my off weekend that i must have a GF with kids and thats why I want to take her. I told her its alot simpler than that. I just want to see my DD without seeing her. Took DD to the zoo sunday. all day sun WW was calling to see if DD was having a good time. Finally called her back in the evening let DD on the phone. Told her to stop calling and seeing what were doing. If she really cared she would figure out a way to be with us then she would know.
Sunday night she stay over at the OM's house. OH well Im sticking too it though.

Week and a half into PB, I think the inevitable will be DV. The thing about PB it actually can help on both ends of the spectrum, Reconciliation or Divorce. By detaching yourself you start to realize you have to live your own life without your S. Everyday it becomes a little easier. Not a lot easier but a little each day. Plan B prepares you for the worst(divorce) but has the potential for the best(reconciliation).

"She thinks because I am taking our DD on my off weekend that i must have a GF with kids and thats why I want to take her."

>Something to keep in mind is a WS is usually the most self-conscious, jealous person around. Meaning, they know what they're doing is wrong and thus they tend to project the guilt (and suspension) onto their S (or anyone they care about). My recommendation is next time she calls and asks, just let her know that your DD is not staying with anyone else, but what you do on your own time is not up to her so long as she's keeping up the A. She gave up that right by choosing to stay in an A. In some instances, jealousy and confusion can play to your advantage. I know it certainly shook me up when I found out my H asked a girl out on a date when I was in my fog. Makes me shudder just to think about it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

"The thing about PB it actually can help on both ends of the spectrum, Reconciliation or Divorce."

Yes. You're now seeing the value of a good Plan B. It is true. Not all M are salvageable. Detachment does help in either scenarios.

Not to repeat the history here but I was the one who orginally strayed in our marriage. I have been fighting for 1 year and 10 months to try and save our marriage. I'm having alot of trouble calling my W the WS . With that said though there is still no formal seperation agreement but considering us to still being married seems like a joke.

I had our DD this weekend and we had a wonderful weekend. The drop off though proved to be very difficult for me. After saying my goodbye to my little angel I asked her to give daddy a hug and kiss. She did and I turned to walk out the door. Now my DD will be 3 at the end of july. She stopped me at the door and said Daddy you need to give mommy a kiss. I reluctently kissed her on the shoulder. After that i turned to leave and she stopped me again and said Daddy you need to give Mommy a hug. My W did give me one of those patronizing pat on the back kind of hugs. The coldness and unemotional response from here hit me like a ton of bricks

I found out later that evening the OM was comming over the house. WIth that info and the events earlier in the day I lost it.

I called told her I didnt understand what we were doing that this stagnet life was killing me and I wasnt going to do this anymore. I told her that it was time to formalize the seperation agreement and proceed with the divorce. She got how should i say it well kinda pissy said I must be PMSing and if thats what i want then fine.

Now that was yesterday(Sunday). This evening around 5 she called In a frustrated kind of voice she said that her and our DD were going out for pizza and our DD was upset I wasnt going. I went (sheesh im a sucker). Now here is the part that really stunned me. As were eating I look up and around her neck is an old gold chain on the chain was a gold band. Something I have neve seen her wear.I asked what that was and She turned it and it was one of her wedding bands. She said it looked nice on the chain. Yea sure.

Just another occasion to MIND **** me.

Ok back to the worse execution of plan b ever

Im out

Yep, I agree, Mind******* going on...

I know, you can't think of her as a WS...I'm here to convince you otherwise.

When you had multiple A's and in the throes of the SA, it hurt the M. Took love out of the M. There was neglect. The aftermath has been a repentant FWH and a BW that feels entitles to do whatever she feels like. She has D you in her mind, how else could she rationalize going out on dates while you are STILL M? There has been a turn of power...she feels she has the upperhand, because you have done wrong it entitles her to all the assets in the M, DD, and she can fool around as much as she wants. She is having fun, and she has it all...her BFs and you to hang around with...why would she want a separation? This has been going on for over a year, she's used to it, and it enables her to have her cake and eat it to. She knows she can control you with that guilt...anytime you get out of line she can mention your past indiscretions, or how your DD misses you and YOU come running...

What needs to happen is for you to be VERY firm with her about what she is doing is wrong...she is NOT allowed to date without the M being over. She is having an A. She has had an A everytime she has been on a date. She will argue this and say she's allowed...but she is not...

Until she stops dating, there will be no reconciliation. Write her a letter telling her there will be no reconciliation until she stops dating and ends all contact with her BFs.

Thank you Still,

I wish I could free myself from this guilt and love I have for her. Even knowing about the BF's hasn't cut into the desire to work out our marriage. I can hear the response now if I tell her there will be no reconciliation until all BF's end. Basically **!

I cant let it be about her this needs to be about me now. But I am the biggest sucker in the world.

God please give me strength.

Im out

Is this the catholic guilt?

You DON'T deserve the way she is treating you. And I'll bet she is not happy with the way she is behaving.

So what is your plan. I've read where you are cutting out the LB's, and how has hte need fulfillment been going? It's not enough to just BE there unless you have been fulfilling her top 3 EN's (or the ones she has let you). If you are confident you have been doing that over the past year (or even few months) I would say it is time for Plan B.

The longer you stay in the situation, the more concret her actions and behavior become...them ore she thinks she can cake eat AND reconcile a M. The more she will try to convince you she wants you to visit AND she wants to go out on dates...

And now it sounds like she has dated enough that she has found an A partner.

It is NOT OK for her to date while she is still M...no matter how close she thinks you are to a D. She needed to legally end this M before moving on... She IS a WW.

Have you ALWAYS thought she was better than you?

Wow! you know what I never looked at it that way. Guess by my actions I'm showing a very insecure person. I need to get it together and put an end to the abuse.

Thanks Still

The reason I ask that is because there was a very poignant thread on "In Recovery" a while back where many of us began to agree that we thought the A started because the WS, for whatever reason, felt unworthy of the BS. Almost as though..."I know you will leave me some day, so I will just do it for you"...or another way to look at it is, "I will find someone I can feel superior to be with so I don't feel so 'less than' around them."

If that is the case...time to pull yourself up to become equal with your WW. A good M is founded on an equal footing, where one doesn't have more power than the other...

After many months of counseling I've come to the conclusion that I was, and I'm not trying to be glib about it, an oversexed selfish a-hole with an addictive personality. I cant say my SA's had anything to do with her one way or the other. I know that I've learned alot about myself and have made substantial improvements in myself.

Now with that being said.During the course of the separation I have felt like I wasnt equal to her and I think there is where the problem is now.

(Hey, we got edited by Justuss...thanks Justuss)

It sounds like you've done quite a bit of work on yourself, and being honest is a BIG step. You have admitted to the A and your SA...you have admitted the guilt and not afraid to feel it.

So, what next?

Here are some things you can try...

Realize that you had a part to play in where the M is right now...not the A, but the way the M got there. Sounds like you've done this.

Become the best H you can be by learning her 3 top EN's, learning the curb the LB, and spend as much time together as you can. The timing for this may have changed. Are you confident you have shown her the best YOU over this past year? Have you fulfilled her requirements for NC with OW?

Expose the A to family, friends, and OM's wife or family. Yeah, I know, a moot point, her family and friends may be encouraging her to get out...but it may be important to let family and friends know you still want the M to work and you are STILL M.

Let her know it is NOT OK for her to date while she is still M.

Realize that you are WORTHY of a good woman and a good M. She picked you as a partner for a REASON!!

This is Plan A. It is about negotiating the end of an A and showing her the best of YOU.

You can only meet her halfway. She has to meet you the rest of the way. When you begin to feel your love for her slipping away it is time to move to Plan B. Plan B is for you to preserve what love you have and for the A to die a natural death. It is so she can get a taste of what a D will feel like before it actually happens.

Plan B begins with a love letter and NC with your WW.

But you shouldn't do both at the same time. Plan B should come as a shock.

It sounds like you have more in you to Plan A. But how long can you do this for?

Have you read Surviving an Affair. It is good for the WS as well as the BS.

You know Still you make a lot of sense. Problem is I think my lack of consistency has lead to a complete lack of credibility.

This has been going on for almost 2 years. At NO TIME has she offered to meet me anywhere let alone half way. I would however say that over the last 2 years I have meet whatever EM she has let me meet. But even then I really don't know.

She has at no time indicated that if I do X and Y and Z then she will commit to reconciliation. Or even an attempt at reconciliation.

I'm starting to feel that I've been in and out of plan a and b over the last 2 years that nothing I do now will change anything.

The best I can do now is to continue to enjoy as much time as I can with our DD

Thanks Still and Whisper you 2 really are good people.

Have you read Surviving an Affair? Very useful thoughts for both the WS and the BS.

Todays Horoscope. This made me laugh.

"You've been polite, considerate and attentive to everyone, just as usual. You've even gone out of your way to be nice to at least one someone who might not deserve it. Enough. Just walk away. It's time."

OH and Still I will get that and read it. Thanks

Is it time for Plan B?

You're getting great advice from SHMI. Please take heed. Detach yourself from your guilt - for the sake of your M.

"What needs to happen is for you to be VERY firm with her about what she is doing is wrong...she is NOT allowed to date without the M being over. She is having an A ...
Until she stops dating, there will be no reconciliation. Write her a letter telling her there will be no reconciliation until she stops dating and ends all contact with her BFs."

I couldn't agree more with SHMI's above recommendation.

Hang in there, DGB!

You know something. I've got good supportive friends and a wonderful family but there is something special about this place. You all really help me. Im a little slow to head the great advice you all give but believe me I am Listening.

Its 2:30 in the morning Ive got an old Fleetwood Mac CD on and Song Bird is playing. The song pretty much sums up all my feelings I have for my W. If you know the song you'd understand, I just dont think Im ready to commit to Plan B. Im just the biggest sap in the world.

God bless you all

Im out
(I think I need to change my music choices like start listenting to songs like "Cold Hearted B*****" by JET. LOL)

That is wonderful that you have so much love for her. Plan A?

And if you commit to Plan A there are some things to follow...

You had mentioned you were not consistent about your behavior. Time to get there...

Read about EN's and LB's. Time to try to fulfill her top 3 EN's and cut out ALL LB's, if not for her, then for you to learn to be a better person.

Expose...this means tell everyone you are close to you still want to be M and are working on the M (including OM?)

Tell her very plainly that you want to work on the M but know you can't with OM in the picture. Want her to give the M a try and ask her to stop dating and look into MC.


Then, while you're following this, keep an eye on your hearrt and hte love you have left for her. You will feel your love drain for her when she is hurting you. While you still have love left there will be a time to move to Plan B, to protect what love you have for her.

Read Surviving an Affair. Did you see Moving4ward's post, she is getting rid of some of her books. She's done the reading, but her WH is gone.

Thank you Still you always make a lot of sense.

After we first separated I started going to counseling I continued with this particular counselor for almost a year. We didn’t deal so much in my past actions but in what was going on at that time. It was basically a release session for me, This was the first time I had ever been to counseling so I didn’t know what I should get out of it. Turns out in looking back I got nothing from this.

1 month ago I began counseling again with a new counselor. This one in particular deals with addictions including sexual addictions. I spent most of the last 2 years focused on trying to save our marriage and all the other things (not that there were a lot) I was lacking in myself. I’ve learned quite a bit about myself but I have never dealt with what I did and why I did it.

These sessions have been very intense and I really get a lot out of them. We do though talk about the current situation only in the Idea of developing what makes me tick. The biggest thing that came out of last night’s session was the counselor’s question of whether or not my W ever really loved me. Her point was to point out even now that my desire to work out our marriage with someone who has shown no signs of wanting the same only supports the notion that I have an addictive personality. I started to make a reality list.

1. Not once has W agreed to any type of counseling either IC or MC.

2. Not once has she ever said she would like to work out our marriage

3. Not once in the last 2 years has she done anything nice for me

4. Not once in the last 2 years has she ever said anything complimentary toward me
5. In the last 2 years she has shown interest in at least 5 different men. Currently dating one

6. Not once have we been able to discuss what is on her mind, how she feels, what she wants to do. It always gets meet with complete aggravation on her part. I try to talk about it she says that’s all we ever do and I say no I try to talk and you always tell me that’s all we ever do.

7. She has continued to rub my nose in what I did. Most of the time being very crud and hurtful.

8. She told everybody we know what I did, immediately. I understand exposure is necessary. I was never given an opportunity to stop what I was doing before exposure happened.

9. Her contention has been that it is my problem and that its not her responsibility to deal with it.

So is there really any love for me? I don’t think so.

I’m going to plan b now, not to save the marriage, but to save my soul