Ok Dani.

Me Peach here. I know why you haven't called me back. I understand completely.

First of all, FIRE THE INCOMPETENT COUNSELOR! SHE IS ENCOURAGING YOU TO STAY IN A PERSONAL HELL WITH NO WAY OUT.

I SAY THIS LOUDLY FOR ALL MB'ERS HERE...THOSE WITH AND WITHOUT RECONCILED MARRIAGED....

I WISH I COULD MAKE THIS IN HUUUUUGE LETTERING...

NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, YOUR WH HAS HIS OWN LIFE AND HIS OWN CHOICES....WHAT YOU DO IS INCONSEQUENTIAL AT THIS POINT. YOU CANNOT SAVE HIM. MY GOD WOMAN! YOU'RE COUNSELOR BELIEVES THAT YOU, A PERSON DEEP IN CODEPENDENCY, CAN THROUGH HER OWN ACTIONS SAVE THIS MARRIAGE WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM YOUR WH? IS SHE SNIFFING GLUE? WHAT PLANET IS THIS ALIEN COUNSELOR FROM?

LET HER COME HERE AND DEFEND HER ADVICE AS IT IS MALICIOUS AND ANYTHING BUT HELPFUL.

SORRY...hit return again in a fit of frustration.

ok.

HERE ARE THE WORDS OF YOUR WAYWARD REPEATED BACK TO YOU AND I SHALL ADD IN A BIT OF REALITY HERE.

Dani's post:
You said for better or worse, this is worse, please just be patient with me. (while I GOT HAVE AT IT WITH ANOTHER WOMAN AND MAKE DEUCE BIGALO LOOK GOOD)
à I am just starting to turn my life around, please……please….(PLEASE UNDERSTAND I WANT TO EAT MORE CAKE...SHE'S COOL BUT SCREWED UP...AND NEEDS ME.)
à My relationship is ‘basically’ over. There is ‘nothing there’(BASIC MEANS THAT IT'S MOSTLY OVER...EXCEPT FOR SOME SEX AND SOME ATTACHMENT THAT STILL REMAINS)
à I love you and the kids, I wish I could make it all right..(BUT I CAN'T! I AM A CHEATING LYING DUDE WHO LOVES BEING A WS...IT IS WHO I AM AND YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TIME TRYING TO CHANGE ME)
à ‘So basically I am wasting my time sitting here with you because you won’t even consider working on our family?’
(AGAIN, I AM WASTING MY SKIRT CHASING TIME SITTING HERE AND TRYING TO BS YOU AGAIN INTO BEING MY SAVIOR, MY CODEPENDENT WIFE WHO SAVES ME FROM MY INSANITY TIME AND TIME AND TIME AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN)

I am sad for you.

We don't wish divorces here.

We truly don't.

But what in the hell kinda building can you do when you have a half a$$ WS saying only the MINIMUM AND DOING NOTHING to change his ways.

He said he will talk to her. She is extremely dangerous and destructive and most likely it is because of HIM AND HIS MENTAL CRUELTY THIS WOMAN FLEW OFF THE EDGE...DO NOT BLAME HER...THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GOES DANI.

He said he's gonna give her FINANCIAL SUPPORT? DIDN'T THE JERKO SAY THAT TO YOU TOO? He didn't. And yet he wants to give the OW financial support>>>

YOU ARE NOT FACING REALITY. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE IL'S ARE SAYING TO YOU OR WHAT THIS CRAPPY COUNSELOR IS SAYING TO YOU....

but it's sad.

I once remembered going to a horrible counselor. She saw a woman who was beaten, abused and treated poorly. Yet she said it was because I did not improve myself that my xh was cheating and lying...all in a guise of christianity she said these vile and poison filled words which cost me almost a year out of my life.

WHEN YOU GET ADVICE FROM A PROFESSIONAL...ALWAYS CONSIDER THE SOURCE.

Is it worth it too live a life in misery forever knowing his heart is not changed and that he may be insane? Is it worth knowing you will never be treated as your should be/ Or your kids be treated as the blessings they are? Will you always be looking over your shoulder if this guy might do the same thing again.?????

Danielle,

You are still holding on to your end of the rope. But now you have tied it around your neck. And at the end of this rope is not just your WH, but his lover. He is holding on to her rope as well and expecting YOU to bear all the weight while he quietly decides whether to keep holding on to his lover.

You will slowly choke to death and die if you don;t let go.

Post deleted by Miss M

Danielle,

Please return to Susan's post.

And if you have any questions, please refer to Susan's post.

She is all over it.

And please, don't do this hit and run posting. We all care about you, so please respond.

And drop this counselor as if she were a hot potatoe!!!

Your H needs psychiatric help. Until he gets it, this will continue.

ow is now in the paper. She has lost her kids, thank the LORD, because they don't deserve this.

You don't either. THINK, STEP BACK. What is healthiest for you and your kids, your WS? Until he hits rock bottom, he will not get the help he needs. Why do you keep cushioning that fall? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> It has to happen for any kind of recovery.

Hoping you will set some personal boundaries soon, cause this is way trashy. Are you getting used to it and therefore keep this sick situation happening?

Stop trying to help your H. He needs to see that he has a problem. How can you sit there and take what he says to you? All this sympathy for ow, and what do you get? What do your kids get?

If you have any questions, I say look at Susan's post again.

Keep us updated Danielle.

Prayers for you, you sure do need them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I had a counselor during my FWS affair, but this counselor did NOT tell me to give 100%. He told me to step back, and do what was HEALTHY for me. Yeah, I had a certified nervous breakdown. He was a Christian counselor, who counseled in the secular world. He also told me most counselors would not even see me until I had agreed to divorce. However, he understood I wanted to save my marriage. But he taught me to set boundaries and do what was HEALTHIEST. To STEP BACK, not react and do what was right. And that ended up being boundaries, a Plan B, when it got to be too much. It worked.


Love in Christ,
Miss M

Thank you all for the replies, and I am sorry that it is taking me so long to write back. While I may not seem to agree with everyone or everything that is said, it is beneficial to see/hear.
WH and I had our first marriage counseling in about 6-8 months. It was court mandated and actually quite helpful (for me at least) I sometimes wonder if anything would be helpful for my WH.
The MC that we went to was suggested by the court. She was very familiar with MB and used a lot of Dr. Harleys concepts. Basically, in short, WH feels that I am not giving him the support he needs to end contact and he doesn’t feel that I will be there for him when he goes through withdrawal. The MC told him that it was his job to get through the withdrawal on his own, and stop acting like it is my job to do everything for him. His state of marriage : Conflict. Mine: Intimacy. They don’t mix well. WH made a comment (I can’t even remember what he said) but it was about the fact that I always want to run away and shut him out when he contacts the OW or ‘makes a mistake’. I was kinda jerky and said ‘maybe you just don’t have what I need out of life. Maybe your not capable of being the husband I need you to be. Maybe you can’t be.’ Well he just basically shut off and said ‘fine, if this is how you want it to end’ I said ‘your ending it Adam, you ended it 10 months ago’ The MC just basically listened to us. He started about how I used to be, why he left in august etc. I just listened.
Finally he said ‘Listen, this is it. I am done. I will try to stop calling her.’ Are you ready to love me? I said ‘well I might try’ and then he said ‘try?!?!’ I said just like you will ‘try to stop calling her’
WH mentioned at one point that I said we would get a camper last year and never did, he used this as to prove I don't keep my word. He then said he bought the family SUV, and I would buy the camper. Because I had given the counseler the backgroud of the situation she responded to him by saying 'Well maybe she would have botten a camper, but since you stole the family SUV and didn't give her any money to support your children, I think it is quite selfish of you to expect she keep her end of the deal'
The counselor tried explaining to WH that he can’t keep two women in his life, no matter in what ‘friend’ relationship he thought he could keep the OW in. WH tried saying that it is up to me if I ‘let’ his contact with her hurt me, he has committed to his marriage, and him calling her to check on her is not hindering that.
She also explained to me that she believes that WH really does WANT to be married to me, he WANTS to make me happy, he WANTS to do the right thing. She pointed out that he is ‘making progress’ in that he does see the kids without comment of OW, he does come home at night, he does go to work. I said ‘progress isn’t progress when he openly disrespects me by contacting the OW’ WH said ‘listen, I know I need to stop, and now your beating a dead horse. You can check on me, check my logs, block her number from the phone, do whatever you want’ I said ‘and should I lock you in your room at night too SON!?!?!?
So…until we meet again on Monday WH and my ‘homework’ is to not talk about the OW, and spend one hour a night together, alone, trying to learn about each other. I said ‘gee that ought to be fun’ when she suggested that. WH said ‘it can be’ the counselor said ‘well you have shown your wife that being around you ISN’T FUN because you contact the OW as soon as the ‘fun’ ends. I think I might actually learn to become disgusted with him in a hour a day… He says he wants this, he says he wants me to be there for him, and I want to be, but he isn’t doing anything I approve of.
He talks one talk, and walks another walk….
We meet again on Monday.
Danielle

I'll make this short.

You ARE NOT YOUR HUSBANDS' MOTHER.

You ARE NOT YOUR HUSBANDS' WARDEN.

I am gonna quote you again:
WH said ‘listen, I know I need to stop, and now your beating a dead horse. You can check on me, check my logs, block her number from the phone, do whatever you want’ I said ‘and should I lock you in your room at night too SON!?!?!?

WH made a comment (I can’t even remember what he said) but it was about the fact that I always want to run away and shut him out when he contacts the OW or ‘makes a mistake’

Wow....He makes a mistake? How trite his words are...hardly a mistake ripping apart a family.

Again, this man is NOT BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS ACTIONS AND IS NOT GETTING THE PSYCH HELP HE NEEDS. HE HAS DRIVEN ONE WOMAN (OW) TO INSANITY AND IS DESPERATELY CLOSE TO DRIVING YOU TO IT ALSO. The OW is NOT YOUR PROBLEM...YOUR WS IS THE PROBLEM.

Now C'mon Dani...are we supposed to believe that 2 counselors...TWO SEPARATE COUNSELORS...are both saying for a codependent enabler to continue enabling him? That's what's happening.

Your WS is still speaking and acting like a WS. He is NOT remorseful...He is still seeking a way to appease you and still remain in contact with OW. He is NOT SORRY REALLY. IT DOES NOT TAKE A ROCKET SCIENTIST TO SEE HIS MOTIVES. PURE SELF CENTEREDNESS...CAKE EATER EXTROIDINAIRE.

Now here is my new take on things dear....YOU ARE WANTING THIS DRAMA IN YOUR LIFE OR ELSE YOU'D PUT A STOP TO IT NOW. I AM NOT GONNA RESPOND ANY MORE TO YOU EITHER PERSONAL OR HERE B/C IT IS GOING IN ONE EAR AND OUT THE OTHER...I WILL PRAY FOR YOU AND YOUR KIDS AND HOPE THAT YOU BECOME BRAVE ENOUGH TO END THE CODEPENDENCY ADDICTION AND FIND A REAL AND COMPETENT PSYCHOLOGIST...NOTE, NOT COUNSELOR...WHO CAN HELP YOU WALK THROUGH THIS DIFFICULT TIME IN YOUR LIFE.

NOT ALL BS CAN SAVE THEIR WS. I OUGHTA KNOW...

LEARN WHEN TO SAVE YOURSELF. GO GET THE WISDOM AND HELP YOURSELF NOW. I AM VERY SAD FOR YOU.

How long is this court mandated marriage counseling supposed to last? I don't recall you ever mentioning this counselling before when you were trying to serve divorce papers. I can't believe the State would require a victim to counsel with the thief who stole from them.
This is nuts.

hmmm....

I would think that things have changed a bit for dani here. I imagine that she has "taken" him back...warts (OW) and all (forgeries) once again. Now, if that is the case, the judge will do the counseling thing when they start talking reconciliation instead of divorce. Especially if BOTH parties state that they want to stay the divorce.

The only other thing it could be is not court mandated marriage counseling...but court mandated COPARENTING counseling. They order that when divorcing couples have children that still need to be parented. The attempt is to get two people to put the best interest of the children on the front burner, and to put their own animosities toward each other aside.

So...dani....am I way off target?

committed

Note to others here...I do wish her well. I do care for Dani, as her sitch so much mirrored what I went thru 2 years ago and am still healing from....

It took me getting away from the source of the insanity to get straight. I so wanted to fix things, as by nature and profession I am a fixer. A healer. But I couldn't and it was so hard for me to accept. Time is the healer. But what is upsetting to me is seeing writing on the wall, and knowing she cannot see it.

Yep, mojo and committed (see, we are on same fence side now and then) I see some inconsistancies with regards to who in the heck is doing the counseling here. It just does not make sense that the judge would want this kinda counseling with such an unstable man. What I see is that , and this is my take on things, is that she's giving him some legal leeway here, or doing something which may allow for this type of counseling or dialogue. I still don't get it. And committed is right. When courts need to, they mandate parenting classes. I did not have to go to them thankfully...as I couldn't imagine being around darth during that time. And can just now accept him for who he is.

All I pray for here is for her to get TRUE WISDOM from somebody who is an expert...imho, she needs to seek a wise psychologist here. Somebody who can help her w/her codependency to see that she does not need anybody else to complete her or make her happy. That comes from within. And until you get it, you will pay a huge price.

Her WS will not change because he is not motivated to change. All he has to do is say he will TRY to not call her, try to be a good H, try to stay home, cry a few crocodile tears, and do what he can do to stay outta jail and that's it. I do not sense any true remorse as this guy deep down wants the ow. His actions say he doesn't want to go to jail...that is all. Jail is a huge motivator to some...and it's his prime motivator right now. But he does not want to give up the ow.

And after all the ow drama I endured, I would like tos ay that many times, the OW can be indeed driven to being evil, cruel, and psycho b/c the WS IS FEEDING THEM HUGE LINES OF BS. SPOONFEEDING THEM BS...Lies. And it would make anybody insane. It makes the BS very very wacked out. Hey...we're here trying to learn how to speak an alien language. Our loved one is acting wierd, saying and doing things counter to the person they know, but they are also saying the normal and loving things to somebody else..the OP. And then it will flip for a while. We'll think the alien has left their body and then the OP goes on the rollercoaster ride.

No don't get me wrong...anybody who KNOWINGLY SLEEPS OR SHACKS UP WITH A MARRIED PERSON....AND EVEN MORE DASTARDLY IF THAT PERSON IS A MOM OR DAD...IS A SLEAZEBUCKET OF THE LOWEST FORM. But they are and can be driven to insantiy when they are lied to time and again.

That is her sitch here. And the ow went over the edge. I know, my xh's first ow, monkeyho, was a CLASSIC CODEPENDENT TO THE 10TH POWER...She was manipulative, controlling, and would act out and then retreat if she didn't get her way...fully knowing and aware she was doing something horrible. And ow2, his present wifey, is also fully aware of what she's done...she's not codependent...just a sleaze.

I'll post on divorcing/dating about the recent developments there...seems the marriage is on the brink after 1.5 years...OH THE WONDERS OF AFFAIR MARRIAGES HUH?

But Dani is hurting nodoubt. She Wants to save her family at any cost. But a family is not today defined by a mom and a dad and kids. We have to redefine it. When a divorce is the last resort, it has to be redefined so that the responsible parent remains as such...and so that the kids are stable.

The court mandated counseling was ordered on May 24th at the PFH hearing. It is for one month, once a week. He is mandated IC for 6 months, every two weeks.
Comitted, 'taking' him back is not an option. The cousneling is not to 'repair' our marriage, because frankly at this point, he is not able to GIVE anything to our marriage, and I can't keep giving...to someone who doesn't see anything but himself in the mirror.
This counseler was MUCH different from my IC. She does think that if we both worked on our marriage we could recover, however, she does not think that WH will now, and maybe ever work on it....enough to help.

Danielle

Please tell me then that you are only going to these counseling sessions to fulfill the one month requirement and that you truly aren't hoping it will wake him up. Because you will be sorely disappointed.

So after this one month requirement your divorce will be final?

The cousneling is not to 'repair' our marriage, because frankly at this point, he is not able to GIVE anything to our marriage, and I can't keep giving...to someone who doesn't see anything but himself in the mirror.

You said it is 'marriage counseling' here...



So...what is the court hoping to do in "ordering" this marriage counseling ? Usually marriage counseling is used to repair a marriage....have better communication skills WITHIN a marriage...make a marriage better..etc. I have yet to see marriage counseling mandated when there is no longer going to be a marriage (divorce) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. Is it so that the judge can say that all avenues of trying to save the marriage have been exhausted?

dani, you are spinning some words here...and I think because you fear the fallout of posting the nitty gritty....or you fear the disappointment of the people that are telling you that you need to jettison his a$$.

It isn't for us to be disappointed whether or not you do. We will feel concern...we will feel fear for you...we might even feel anger, but not AT you, as much as for the entire situation. Disappointment doesn't come into play...well, not for me anyways.

JMHO
committed

Dani, is he living in your home again? You said he comes home at night, and that you have to spend an hour together each night...how is this possible, unless he is living with you again?

I am sorry that I am not explaining myself well. It may be because my situation has so many turns and twists that I don't explain enough for people to get the clear picture.
WH is NOT living with the kids and I. When I say he comes 'home' I mean home to his parents house. I guess I say home refering to that because before we had our own place 4 years ago we lived with his parents and I feel very at home there. I have my own place with the kids, about an hour from his parents house.
The court mandated cousneling has NOTHING to do with the divorce process. It was ordered at the PFH hearing against the OW and at his bail hearing for theft. The divorce process takes AT LEAST 60 days from the date of filing, if it is not contested. I should hear back within 2 weeks for the first court date, which is called a case management hearing.
The one hour a night is not quite possible, (well I guess ANYTHING is possible) but it isn't probable. We took the kids to the beach yesterday, and today I havn't talked to him at all. I am not putting myself out there to meet the one hour thing, he has to come to me. Believe me because I am not going to sit here and type lies, I truly wish and pray for him to 'come around' and for us to be able to reconcile......but I don't hold my hopes to high for that.

Danielle

The court mandated cousneling has NOTHING to do with the divorce process. It was ordered at the PFH hearing against the OW and at his bail hearing for theft.

So, it is not "marriage" counseling then ...right?

committed

The order reads 'joint counseling with (my name).'

So I guess you could call it counseling with the two of us together...
Danielle

I'll be a dissenting voice here, because I fear this thread has gotten off-balance.

I don't see the co-dependency that others have seen Danielle. I see how you have kept strong boundaries. You have gone forward with legal action WHENEVER WH or OW have stepped out of line. You have kept your address secret, no matter how many false starts. You have shown WH you are still there (and sure, falling for his "poor me, take me back." speech) and yet know when to get out of his life, again.

You are following Plan Dani, you are going to school, taking care of your home and kids, and taking care of YOU.

YOu still love your H...and I wonder if that is what people bristle about ("How could you still love a man who treats you like this.") You are a woman with a great amount of patience, and the fear is that you would take him back too soon, and accept too little. You are worth SO MUCH more.

What would he have to offer you for you to accept him back?

email me if you'd [email]like...stillheremakingit@yahoo.com[/email]

That makes two of us. I agree with STMI.

Give the counseling a chance.

And I want to add that we are all going through an emotional time and it is possiible that we may be projecting our own situations when we minister to each other.

Hmm, yes perhaps you are corect SHMI. Maybe it has been that Danigirl has just been the incredibly strong one this whole time and what some of us see as "co-dependance" is really just her "strength" and "boundary defining". What we may see as weakness and dysfunctional living is just a woman who is fighting for her marriage and just "lighting the way" for her Husband to come home from the evils of the OW and his own addictions. Indeed, perhaps Dani has "got it" right the whole time, and it is just us who have called it all wrong. This is certainly a possibility. One, that to be honest I never considered.

Yes, I think on second thought, there has probably not been any (or very little) co-dependence here in this situation.

Maybe Dani is the shining example of what we as BS should strive to do. Fight for the marriage, show patience and define our boundaries. Her boundaries have been so strong that her kids have been minimally affected, and hopefully all of the legal fallout of these multiple unfortunate events will fall on the OW, who in the end is who is really responsible for this. In Dani's own words, she herself has said that her Wayward Husband is a great Dad and Husband and is always very contrite and wants to reconcile, but whenever the OW gets involved he goes against what he really wants. If the OW can be permanently removed from WH life, then maybe Dani has been right all along. This is something of an epihany to me, but it just could be. There is alot to be gained from this insight.

Thank you for spelling it out like this, as I have never been able to quite see it like this.

We all learn something everyday. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

LM