WW had affair with 19 year old male nanny of our DS8, while on assignment with U.S. government in Europe.OM sent home when discovered.

Two months of talking and counseling with SH provided no reconciliation. SH recommended that DS8 stay in U.S. and visit WW during the summers.

WW kidnapped son to Europe and filed restraining order and divorce paperwork on Mothers Day. Plan B initiated unofficially.

Court removed restraining order and said that DS8 would be returned to U.S. after school year in Europe was over on June 30, and the courts would determine where he would be for third grade at the end of August pending the completion of a parenting evaluation and psychological review of both parents.

WW contacted me via E-Mail today for the first time since Mother's day asking if I would consider a position in Europe that she found was available. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> (That would have been Plan 'A'.)

I need a Plan B letter that will clearly explain where we are. And this one is a little bizarre. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks everyone.

Sleepless

Hi sleepless! Ummmm...what do u want to do? Would you like to live in Europe? Or do you think you should be where you are now.
Also, do you want her back? Or is this more about your son?
Asking for clarification for better answers from someone...

WW contacted me via E-Mail today for the first time since Mother's day asking if I would consider a position in Europe that she found was available.

I guess the meeting with the parent evaluator didn't go well?


I would make a Plan B very short...to the point...

Start by telling her you love her and all the things you love and miss about the M and being a family.
Tell her there are things that both of you have done to further the demise of the M to this point. Tell her having an OM is hurtful and that continuing contact with her at this time hurts more. You still love her and have hope for the M, but need to stay away to preserve what love you ahve left.

Tell her you would be willing to work ont he M again if these things are being met...a plan for NC with OM, and accountability so no new OM could come into the picture. A plan for you both to live together again in the future. A parenting plan you both can agree on for DS18 and DS8 (where do you stand). Etc.

Beef it up, add some swirls and dots some i's. Add your own terms at the end, you may not want to be so specific...

Be honest with yourself...what would it take for you to accept her back?

Hi, Sleepless.

Quote:
=============================
WW contacted me via E-Mail today for the first time since Mother's day asking if I would consider a position in Europe that she found was available.
=============================

Please don't respond to her, especially while the evaluator is there. Run it through your lawyer first.

Gimble

Excellent questions MAB. I had been looking for a job in Europe, but now I'm focused on putting DS8 in a more stable environment, and that's here. Moving over there to live in a different apartment would only be enabling my WW's bad decisions.



First, it's about my son. Second, I don't know if she could correct her behavior enough for me to take her back. I would consider it because it would be better for the boys to have their parents married and in love. But from a realistic standpoint, I'm in full protection mode until I see A LOT OF EVIDENCE that she can change her behavior. "Grumbled Papa Bear" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Did that already. Just responded with DS8's flight information. My lawyer said don't even acknowledge the job idea. So, I didn't. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

If you took a job over there and then later wanted to come back home the courts might not allow you to move him after he has been settled in his current location. Just a thought.

Flynn, That's kinda what I was thinking too. Plus I would have to quit here and have no guarantee of getting a job when he moves back. It's once again all about the WW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Sleepless.

I think this is probably the first order of business. What do you want to do? You have been so focused on protecting your sons, which is very commendable, have you had time to think about what you, Sleepless, want for yourself?

Exactly what you would need your WW to do to let her back into your life? That has been a very hard thing for me to decide in my own situation with my WH. I'm not saying you'd necessarily need to list all your requirements in your Plan B letter (I'm no PBL expert, as you know), but it would probably be good to know what you would require.

Gee, I sure am wordy and full of questions after the kids go to bed and I have a glass or two of wine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Good thing I don't do it too often.

Hmmm. Not many people ask me what I want. I've just always been happy to make other people happy. Sounds codependent maybe, but I get happiness out of sharing with other people what life has to offer. I want my son's to discover that giving to others is a good thing. I think I would add now, that Giving to others with a thankful heart is a good thing.

I have had one friend fly in from Texas because he was worried about me, just to drink beer and go sea kayaking. I've had another drive down the day he got back into town with a bag containing a six pack of beer, bananas, apples, two different potato chips and cookies. He said he didn't know what I felt like. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Another friend called two weeks after I had sent him a message of what was happening. He got an E-Mail from friend 1 that said, "Sleepless is doing well considering the circumstances." Friend 3 called and yelled at me. "For stuff like this USE THE WORK E-MAIL!" He hadn't checked his web account for a month! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I want my WW to care for me as much as these guys that worried about me. I want her to appreciate what she has with me. I am NOT perfect. But I'm a great husband, and a fantastic father.

Surviving an Affair says I shouldn't expect an apology. In the beginning I didn't want one, but after this crap, I think I've earned one. The bigger problem is that the third friend promised to fly out here and kick my A$$ if I let her come back. That seems to be a general consensus. She needs to apologize to more than just me if she wants to have a family again. She needs to demonstrate how a man and woman should behave in a loving marriage. Stop looking at other men. Show me a lot more respect. Stop trying to control everthing...including me and the boys. Start telling people she loves them. Take more time for vacation and less trying to fix and clean things to gain approval.

Tell me how lucky she is to have a great husband and work for the rest of her life to be the best wife and friend she can be to me.

Have I set the bar high enough? I just got done watching "You've Got Mail." I think my view is skewed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm still capable of loving someone in spite of their faults. She needs to whittle away some of her faults, and not cause emotional distress to our sons anymore.

How's that?



What are you drinking... last night? I've been sampling a "Barefoot Cabernet" But if you prefer Chardonnay, I discovered the "Black Mountain Chardonnay" is REALLY good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

2-1/2 hours south of San Fran? I know where you are too.
Sleep tight young lady. How's the Melatonin working?

Thanks for asking what I want.

Sleepless.

Hi, Sleepless.

I think that's great. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> What you wrote about wanting your wife to care about you as much as your friends do, that was really touching. Why is it the people we love the most are the ones who seem to treat us the worst, hmm?

Last night it was some kind of Gewurztraminer (sp?). The 'on-sale' kind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> There was some left for tonight. A bottle will last me a while...all by myself (shameless sympathy grab, LOL).

Well, a lot of places are 2-1/2 hours south of San Fran. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The melatonin does seem to help a bit. Thanks for suggesting it.

Hey, somebody's gotta do it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Sleepless.

Quote:
==================================
Surviving an Affair says I shouldn't expect an apology. In the beginning I didn't want one, but after this crap, I think I've earned one.
==================================

The whole John and Sue story in SAA left me with a bad taste. I am sure that the whole story isn't known, maybe John was a bad abusive guy, regardless, I couldn't come to terms with accepting the vitriolic spew from a wayward spouse without remorse, not counting moving the other person into a place I am paying for, with my children.

I do understand the need to move on. There is a place where the damage is so great, that you just can't repair it. You either start over, or you move on. In my case, my wife and I started over. If there had been children, property and a lot of money involved, I doubt that we could have recovered.

I would really like to know how John and Sue are doing. My dollar would be bet on the marriage eventually failing.

In my opinion, in the best outcomes, the betrayed spouse does need to apologize for their failures in the marriage preceding the affair, then address those issues, The wayward spouse must understand WHY they did what they did, apologize to the betrayed spouse, and take whatever action is necessary so that they never do it again. I don't think it is really possible to make reparation in a marriage, other than choosing to love each other. The very act of attempting to quantify bad actions (or inaction for that matter) on the part of either spouse is near to impossible, and for any practical application, it is useless to even try.

From my experience and observation, the greatest chance for recovery comes from both spouses making the choice to recover. Maybe that is the lesson from John and Sue.

When my wife and I decided to leave the past where it was, and get legally married 29+ years ago, we made a choice, a decision to move on. Neither of us had much love, and little feeling toward each other at the time. What we started out with was two very damaged people and a choice to make a life together. I think we did good.

So, Sleepless. all you can do for now, is decide that you will decide when the time is right, and when that time comes, make the best damn choice that you can given what you know at the time.

God bless,
Gimble

Thank GOD! I thought it was just me. I think I can write a decent letter now given some big picture suggestions and just thinking out loud here.

I'll try to put something together and let you all review for me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />