I realize that Plan A's purpose is to end the A, and obviously the M can't be saved if that doesn't happen. So I have read some about the exposure of the A, and I did some of this prior to coming here when I first found out. Truth is...it didn't help my sitch at all. In fact, I think it damaged it. H feels like he can't trust me. HE feels betrayed.
I have been doing some DBing techniques, which some of parallels to plan A. I have had some success at this, however the A continues and the lying about it continues, so obviously it is not enough. The success I've had is in ending the vicious cycle we were in. In H feeling very on the fence. However, when I do bring up A, it seems he withdraws and then avoids me, whereas when I don't bring it up he seeks me out. So I am not certain in this circumstance that bringing it up it good, but I still end up doing it alot.
At this point, it may be best if I let the A ride it's course and just stay away. I don't think this is a route I want to take though. I don't want to keep going through this. And I don't want to pretend the A isn't happening.
So in our talks about the A, H has gone from complete denial and defensive and aggressive, to admittal that it did happen, and little more pieces of truth seem to come out. H doesn't admit that the A is part of what is damaging our chance to reunite...in his mind, I believe, he thinks he will pretend it is over, get MC with me to see if it can get better between us, and then decide. I think that is ludicrous and will not work. Being in an A, you are not available to work on a M.
So I want to know the best methods of negotiating the end of this A, without returning to a cycle of broken promises and lies. I do feel that I am more successful when I don't get H's defenses up. It seems like we've talked countless times about this...yet somehow it stays the same. He thinks he's put on the image of the A over, but I know it isn't.
And we've talked about it before.
How do I get past this brick wall I keep running into?
Last time I talked to him, I told him and the wording seemed to work well...that I have my boundaries. That my boundary is that the A must be over and it needs to be clear to her as well. I expected a big deal to come from it, but surprisingly he just said "ok". But I don't think he's walking the walk, just thinks he'll be more secretive. Is this where I should say that because of x and x I do not believe the A is over, and while it continues, I am not interested in pursuing anything with him? And then implement plan B?
Im not sure, because I don't think I've put in enough positive moments, and his biggie- recreational companionship. Almost every interaction we have I do bring up the A and it really dampens things and I don't think he remembers enough of the positive between us to start to miss me much. He may just feel relieved.
Would a good plan be to really stick it out and say NOTHING about the OW or A for a good month or so, and make each and every encounter super positive and then have that conversation?
I think this part of Plan A is important and so I would love to hear what others have done that has worked for them. I know I should sched. an appt. with the Harveys, the prob. is I am already doing C with Michele Weiner Davis, and H has started too and he likes her and wants to stay with her. Her methods are so slow though, I don't want to stay in a M with an A going on for years. So I see it that at some point, it either stops or the M ends. I do want to make my best shot though, so that is where I am trying to plan a strategy and not just wing it.
If other people want to discuss this part of plan A here with their sitch. that would be welcome. I was hoping not to make this simply about me, but about the process of plan A and ending the A.

Dear Still Hopeful,

I don't know whether hearing about my situation will enlighten you or just confuse you... I have been in and out of plans A and B for the past almost four years. I tried plan A at first, but then, when the affair proved too tenacious I gave up and went on with my life. We were going to get divorced this spring, and in the process of discussing the divorce -- when so much of the initial emotion had dissipated -- we had a few pleasant exchanges. On the divorce court steps, my WH invited me to return. We were together again for three months, but my WH still took calls from the OW. We had counseling with Steve Harley, but because the OW was still in the picture, my WH was unable to meet my SF need. He also was not willing to do the deep-down work on himself and the marriage that was clearly required. So I decided to go forward with the divorce and my life.

Even at bleak times like this, hope remains. Because I've gotten used to the affair, I am alot more nonchalant about it than I was in the beginning. When my WH and I decided to part company again last month, I told him that I'd like to remain friends with him. I also started planning my return to the States from Switzerland where we have lived for the past six years -- the move here also triggered our problems. Well, lo and behold, guess who started making noises about returning to the States with me! I had told my WH that I believe the only way we will resuscitate our marriage is by going to a new environment, just as the Harleys say, and -- praise the Lord -- it seems like my husband might be ready and willing to do just that. He is not in love with the OW but keeps her around out of loneliness and low self-esteem. Believe me, it is not easy being a stranger in a strange land and I might have been tempted to do the same if I'd had someone -- but I haven't, so I've had to try to make it on my own, and I have grown much stronger.

I still don't know whether things will work out. Everybody tells me to give up, but... My point is that in my now emotionally detached state, plan A seems to be working even when most feel I should have closed the book. I am letting my husband work things out with the OW now without interference -- but I am giving him something very enticing to replace this relationship with the OW, which has long since lost its luster...

Don't give up, still hopeful!

Thank you for your insight and telling me your sitch. Yesterday, H and I got together and had a really good R talk. I focused on his needs that need to be met and on validating him, doing Plan A stuff etc. I did not mention the A or OW. The response was tremendous. H told me he felt that I was finally just thinking of his issues for once and he was grateful I didn't bring up the A. H knows how aweful the A is for me. But by not bringing it up, he felt I was truly interested in him and his needs. When I bring up the A he feels I am only looking to make myself feel better.
So it was really good. H actually got very teary eyed. He told me he was so sorry I was hurting. H hugged me intensely for about 5 mins.
I told H that I thought forgiveness was important for us to move forward. I told him that our R was built on trust, which it really was. I said that we now have these trust issues, and though it takes time, I don't think the trust issue is about how we broke trust, but about trusting the other enough to be vulnerable and let down our guards. Trusting that the other will not hurt us, but will care for our heart. This made him almost cry.
I still have a long way to go. My H is not yet ready to look at changes he will need to make. First, he needs to feel secure to let down his walls, to feel safe, to see that my changes are real, and to want to be with me enough to put in the hard work ahead. It is really hard to try to put my own needs on the back burner, but it is what I must do right now. H is taking steps. I have to appreciate them and be patient. I cannot rush him or it won't be genuine. Patience is so hard for me because I just want this to be over. But I realize, I have been working on me and on our M for awhile...I have thought about things, I have learned about things. H hasn't. He is just a the beginning of this. And despite all the aggression he has shown, he is so fragile right now. So I think to point out his errors will only hurt him when he is so afraid to hurt anymore. Because he feels so bad about himself inside. So I have to nurture his esteem, care for his heart, not pressure him, but gently lead him. I think I have a long way to go. The journey is so hard. I will be happy to get there.
Plan A to continue for now. Also, really needing to get my own life, get some friends and recreation going, start feeling good and happy about myself. I still have this well of pain I push down every day. I would like to let it go.

Hi again, still hopeful,

I think you've got the right idea. It is very difficult to do what you seek to do, not the least because you may feel like you are going it alone. Your friends, like many of mine, may encourage you to stop being a woman "who loves too much", etc. They just don't like to see me in pain, and after all I've gone through all my friends and family are encouraging me to end my relationship, to give up hope.

But if you can somehow manage to keep yourself busy and keep your mind off of your H, you will reap many rewards. (I now have a wonderful, full social life and have many new people in my life.)

I told my husband again the other day, "You may feel uncomfortable with this, but I just want you to know that I want to spend the rest of my life with you." He didn't say anything, and I thought to myself, "Oh, what did you do now!"

But I think my husband is holding on to this bit of information -- he has so much shame, he doesn't feel worthy of me. But the fact that I haven't given up hope in our relationship -- that I know that at the core is a man I have always and can continue to love -- is reassuring to him. For the past few days we have been working out the logistics of coming back to the States, as it becomes more and more likely that a job is coming through for me. That is not to say that we will go back to a bed of roses -- there will be lots of work to do, but getting the OW out of the picture will be the first step. Then will come my husband's healing and rebuilding of his self-worth. I think it's going to take years.

member1326

1326-
That is incredibly awesome that you guys are moving so far away. That is going to save you light years of agony I think. He may go through "withdrawl" at first, so be prepared for that. I wish I could say we were moving! H has talked about moving out of state, but now he's backpedaled on the idea...finances, which makes sense, but I care more about my M than finances! But the finance stuff is an issue of self-esteem for H right now, so I just validated. I think the threat of the supposed "secret life" he seems to think he is living will continue while we live anywhere near here. But one day at a time, trying to keep taking a step forward...I have not made an love withdrawls in a while so that is good. Now I have to beef up the deposits. Hard to do when a person is emotionally removed from you. I sense H does this because he can't bear to face what he has done. It's easier to just push it aside and keep doing what he's doing. It's sad. I wish he would get some courage and be a man!

1326---We are in a very similar situation. My H is Hungarian and we moved to Budapest 5.5 years ago. It has been the hardest thing I've ever done. It's been a constant struggle (with some bright spots of course) and from the beginning he didn't do much to help me. I almost came home due to the treatment he was giving me.

Just found out a little over a week ago about his A with an employee (he's the boss). I was on the plane home by Thursday. We have gone thru alot of talking, but after this morning I'm not holding out much hope. He still has feelings for OW and thinks he wants to be with her. I'm having a real hard time thinking about working it out and going back to a man who's not sure he wants to be with me, and live in an environment I don't find necessarily friendly. I dropped everything of mine to move overseas and realize his dream. What do I get for it? You know the word that fits. I have ordered Surviving an Affair today, so will wait until I learn more.

Everyone is telling me if he wants it to work, we should come back to America. I think so too, not sure if staying in the environment that fostered this situation is the place to work on fixing it. I am soooo raw right now it's almost unbearable...but I know I'll get past it. We've been together 17 years I hate to see it end.