Some of you might remember my sitch. (xw left for married OM - family friend. om remains married - xw remains hopeful that om will D, continues "seeing" om at her house, going out to dinner in another town, etc. xw also continues to push DD13 to "accept" om as her next h. DD13 hates om, however fears that xw (Mom) will choose om over her if DD13 does not go along with Mom's desire. xw & om take DD13 to their out of town dinners, movies, etc.)

om fits pattern of somatic narcissist as confirmed by his former best friend and om's wife's best friend. Which means that xw is totally consumed in believing om's words, no matter the illogic involved. "I'm staying married to her because she is dying..." xw totally believes om and says he's a "wonderful man" for doing this. all the while shagging om and remains convinced they will marry. om has another gf that xw could easily know about - but refuses to confirm because "om would never lie to me..."

Problem: DD13 is being affected greatly and is an emotional basketcase. Custody is currently split weekly and DD13 is "swapped-out" at a Walgreens drug store parking lot between xw and I. xw thinks DD13 is "fine" yet DD13 gets to my house and has emotional breakdowns and more. DD13 wants to be away from om and live w/me full time, however does not want to disappoint xw. DD13 also thinks she can "rescue" xw somehow.

I recently put the legal wheels into motion for a custody change. DD13 counselor agrees that current split-time is not good and best place for DD13 is w/me. However DD13 counselor will only say this in court if DD13 says OK. DD13's love for xw has always been strong and DD13 thinks her Mom will "wake up" one day. I hug her & tell her that may not happen.

DD13 deserves none of this, and custody battle will make it worse. (xw currently has no emotional or legal boundaries whatsoever, so there is no telling what xw will do or say to "keep" DD13 in split-time once she gets word about legal matters.)

Any thoughts on how to ease pain for DD13 through this process? DD13 is Christian and clearly knows about adultery, D, etc. but is not strong enough to tell xw that she is leaving to be away from om and so that xw can help herself. (She's only 13!!!!!)

Thanks.

FR

Hey Racer,

I feel for you bud, My WWXW left for married OM..he is still married blah,blah,blah...so I know from where you come.

One very important thing to remember here....You are the adult. Your XW is not healthy enough to make the smart decisions concerning your daughter. It's been 18 months for me and my WWXW still cannot see where anything she has done effects the kids in the least.

So, you have to do the right thing no matter the consequences.

This switching off is horse pucky, your daughter needs a home base of operations, all kids do and I couldn't be any more opposed to "bed-swapping", which is your current sitch.

My children acted out as well, did poorly in school for a year, 2 oldest won't speak to her, 2 youngest barely put up with her.

As time goes by your daughter will find her own center of gravity. I'm not painting the picture of happiness here, just that she will either end or limit her relationship with her mother as long as Mom continues with her current behavior.

Your daughter probably does much like most kids in this sitch, she loves her "Mom" but really despises the "person" and what she has done to your home. BUUUUT...she will put on a good face for "Mom" right now till inside she feels there is no hope at all that Mom will straighten out.

So FR, you move forward with the legal stuff, get your ducks in a row, if you aren't documenting your XW's and daughter behavior, start today and work your way back as far as possible and keep it up. It's going to cost money but get yourself a Psych examination beforehand, so it can't be drawn out if she files a motion for a court ordered exam and you'll look far more concerned and responsible AND you won't be stuck with a bill for HER psych exam (it happens).

If your daughters counselor will not support this or represent your daughters best interests it is time for look for a more pro-active counselor. You are paying this person to hlp your daughter sort things out. If your D were to confess to being physically raped do you think you would get this wishy-washy answer from the IC? Well, your D is being mentally raped and I find it disgusting that even though this C knows what is being done and what is going on that they gave you such a crappy answer.

She is 13, you are the legal guardian, it isn't up to your daughter...Thats what you tell the counselor...She is 13, I am her father and I make the decisions as to whats best for her.

FR, a custody battle isn't going to make it worse, a custody battle is going to take care of a couple things...mainly....

1. Giving your daughter stability
2. Limiting your EX's ability to influence your daughter.
3. D KNOWS this sitch is wrong and she needs you to support that thought process. She needs you as an example, kids crave black and white, yes and no, bounderies....you can set the tone without bashing your EX simply by living the right way.

4.This one is important....really important FR....DO NOT allow yourself to be sucked into EX's psychosis...When she goes balistic, degrades you, calls you every name in the book for "taking her daughter away" (and she will)...You stay calm and repeat after me "I'm doing this because our daughter needs stability and a home base, not to "get even" or hurt you because this isn't about you, it's about the mental and physical well-being of our daughter"

And say no more...do not elaborate...do not get sucked into an argument. I did that for 5 months and eventually didn't even need to go to court...you know why? Becuase OM is more important and your EX will see D as a hinderence to her fantasy land eventually. Even if she doesn't you will have remained calm and be seen as NOT revenge driven because you made it clear it was about D without resorting to dirty tricks or filling the D's head with BS.

So, log behaviors, get psych exam, change counselors if this one sticks to their statement about helping, find all the supporting info you can on children having a base for operations...Do a case search locally for cases similar to yours (don't worry, you'll find plenty)in general cover your bases FR...

Good Luck and keep us posted

Good advice from RM.

My two cents: At the beginning of my DV, I almost went through the opposite--I have custody of my 15-yr-old daughter, but she wanted to go live with her dad, because he has no rules. I talked with my attorney, found out all the things that RM just told you (and how costly it all is), in case I had to prove that she'd be better off with me.

The courts WILL start listening to a child once they're in their teens. I'm not sure the rules in your state, but my attorney told me if my daughter, at 15, told the courts she wanted to go live with her dad, it would be hard for me to swing that the other way.

Anyway, my point: What he suggested was my allowing my daughter to do a "trial period" of say, 30 days living with my ex, because we were pretty sure she'd decide in that time that it was NOT as good an idea as she thought it was, and then we wouldn't even have to do the court thing.

In my case, I was trying to retain custody, in yours you're trying to gain it. I know, two different things.

But would it make sense, if you think she'd be better off with you, and she likes it with you, to see if you could work out a test period like this before taking it to court (or while your stuff is in process). Might that be what she needs to convince her that she'd be happier with you?

LL

RebornMan:

Great information - much appreciated. Please see my additional comments:


Yes - that is my exact position. I have exhausted all other methods and have no regrets in starting this process.



I allowed this in the beginning only because XW "had everything figured out" and I wanted to be able to say that I gave it a try. I knew this was the worst case for DD and talked to her about it; telling her it would likely change soon. "Soon" is now.



Ah - so similar, our sitches. DD19 refuses to contact xw. XW tells DD13 it's because of DD19. Amazing that DD19 and XW were this close (><) for all those years. (XW was @ college when all this went down - and XW contacted DD19 saying many lies about me, which confused DD19. It was a bad situation!) DD19 admits that she was "in-denial" about XW's actions, that “she just could not believe it” - but she is definitely out of denial now.



Exactly!



Actually, our D-agreement calls for a mandatory session(s) with a licensed parent-coordinator (for xw and I) prior to any attempt at custody change. I have already set my appointment.


DD’s counselor does represent DD’s best interest. I have no problems with counselor. Occasionally, we disagree at which time we get together and handle it. DD likes counselor, XW does not!



Oh – no worries about this. Despite the fog; once xw gets word of this happening; knows that I will stand firm and see it to the end regardless of how she acts. And I am informing her today of the parent coordinator appointment, which will send her into panic-land. (I choose to inform her, because I’ve always been “straight-up” in our M and will not change now.)

I have logged behaviors, comments, comments from xw’s family, etc. Without telling her – XW knows that I do this.

Thanks Reborn. Your timelines are also helpful!

FR

Hi LL:

Thanks for input. I had not thought about a "trial period" and think it's a good idea as an alternative. I would not want to go in asking for a trial however might agree to it if necessary. A better trial might be for DD to live with XW for 30-60 days. I'll keep you posted.

FR

FR, been blamed for driving away oldest daughter yet? My oldest is 16 and my WWXW says to me...no lie...when he chose to not speak to her anymore...here goes.."What am I supposed to do? Give up on my kids? You drove him away from me" I say "Uh...Darling You did the driving...last I checked I didn't have my legs up in the air guiding a penis in"...WWXS...what a hoot! So your 19yo has come around? Good, it means she see's it for what it is



thats good and all FR, but unless they are going to do a full on psych eval (the 4-5 hour kind) then you need to have one done...big time saver and show of responsibility


FR, I wasn't trying to run your IC down just thought the comment about they will do it in court if D wants her too was a little suspect...hence my rape reference. I do not use that lightly, I feel my children were raped mentally, still are.


It'll be good, it seems like you have thought ahead, wise move.

Talk later
Rebornman

RebornMan:



LOL! That's too good. I can only wish I'd said the same.

No, not driving her away. But certainly for the destruction of our M, telling DD's that it was me who drove her into OM's arms!!! The one thing I have learned through this is that xw simply has no boundaries - whatsoever - none! Like your sitch - if it wasn't so sick, it would be laughable.


This is the 1st I've heard of this, but I will check it out. And of course will happily oblige to anything of the sort. 4-hours, 4-days, I don't care. Whatever it takes. I will keep you posted on what I find out.


I re-read my words and see how they could've been misinterpreted. Sorry about that. DD-counselor is working to help DD13 regain her confidence in standing up for what she knows to be right vs. wrong, (as xw & I taught her for 1st. 12 years of her life.) DD's confidence has taken a major blow (understandable) and counselor is trying to help re-establish it. When push comes to shove, (and if needed) counselor will be in judges chambers w/DD to help her be strong enough to say what she feels.

The rape analogy is dead on. Both DD's have gone from confident, happy, full of life young woman & young teen to borderline timid and ultra-sensitive. Of course - xw remains convinced that they are "fine". I sometimes wonder what planet xw is from - or living on.

Don't worry FR, the opportunity will arise and since I didn't copyright it your free to use it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />




Soon you will find humor in it, I just did. Your WW telling your DD's it was you, basically, who drove her to his place, fluffed him to prepare, lubed everything up...while she lay there helplessly submitting to your demands she screw him....Maybe I'm jaded and twisted but I find that completely humorous and a good example of how screwed up our WWXWs are.



This is one that I still can't get my WWXW to see and never will I suppose. I tried to explain it like this to her..."How can you be upset with the kids or I? If the kids had used this type of good /evil judgement on someone else in the same predicament, you would have been proud that what we taught them over the years stuck. Lesson learned, but since they are using those same skills to pass judgement on you...The accusations of brainwashing and driving them away are just a convenient way for you to avoid searching yourself and finding one shred of fault"

She stared like a retard and I continued

"Alright, then I guess I'll change my tactics, from now on I'll tell them that it is OK to hump anyone they want, anytime they want, anywhere they want, under any circumstances that pleases them, as a matter of fact I'll tell them you approve of this so much you were "brave enough" to destroy our home to prove it is OK, I'll tell them Mom says it's ok to F*** whenever the feeling hits" Of course then she claims I was being stupid and mean...I say.."no, just throwing your logic back in your face"...oh well


I hear you FR, I hear you loud and clear. All we can do is provide a soft landing for them and that just isn't enough for an overprotective Dad like me, but it is the best we can offer. We still need to live our lives as an example for them to emulate.

The good part is we don't have to reach to high to set a better example, with WWXW's in the background doing what they do it gives us a little leeway in the mistake department y'know? I've made mine God Knows and I'll make more

Talk later brutha

In terms of a "trial" visit....I'm glad to see that this wouldn't be your first choice. In lordslady's situation the daughter wanted to live with dad because there were fewer rules. In doing so, the daughter would experience how all wasn't fun and games living with dad. In your daughter's case, she is very clear that she knows it's not a good situation to live in...and hopes to be able to "save" mom.

While I recognize that your daughter's counselor is working at empowering your daughter, I'm concerned that this custody choice or decision is being placed on your daughter to some degree. Maybe it's time for the two adults (you and/or the counselor) to take some of the responsibility for such a difficult decision away from your daughter. Let one of the adults be the "bad guy". That may help your daughter let go of some of the self-blame she'd have at not wanting to be with mom. Or, at the least, free your daughter from having to make a clear statement to her mother about the whole issue.

Your daughter can have her say, but have it made clear that it isn't ultimately her choice about what happens. Allow her an "out". Also, it will reinforce the message for your daughter that it is not her responsibility or the expectation of anyone else that she try and rescue her mom. That of course she (daughter) cares about her mom....and hopefully things will change for mom...but that's something only mom can do....

If your daughter is feeling so fragile right now, I'm not sure this is the issue that should be used to help start rebuilding her self-confidence and self-esteem.

heartmending:

Thank you for the input. I did not want to imply that a big part of this decision is being placed on DD13, because it is not. That is too much to put on a recently emotionally-beaten up 13 year old and I would never throw her to the wolves like that. She is secure in the fact that I will protect her - as much as I am legally able. She is very secure with this. You see I will not deceive my daughters and they know this. They rely on this. And if I were to tell DD13 that no matter what - you won't have to tell a judge, guardian ad litem, etc. where your preference is to live; then I might be deceiving her if it comes to that. My hope and belief is that it won't get to that. But it may, and I desire that DD is prepared.

Counselor has already stated that she will be the liaison however counselor also said that a few judges desire to talk to the kids in person. If this happens - counselor will be present, for support.

And of course, all of this is designed to hopefully, help DD's empowerment skills, that have been rocked.

I hope I explained it better this time. Does it make better sense now? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

FR