I heard that familiar phrase as well as "you deserve better" as my wife and I talked Sunday. She has come to the conclusion that she doesn't want to work on our marriage and wants to split. She has been separated only for two weeks, but she is adament about dissolving the relationship.

We meet Tuesday with our MC in order to tell him which direction we want to go. Of course I don't want to end our relationship, but I can't force her to love me. She says she wants us to keep being friends etc. and wants an amicable split. Our MC said if we did go the divorce route that he would provide us with divorce counseling. I don't really know what to do at this point. Her coolness and lack of emotion has really got me thinking that she may be having an affair or is just wanting an easy way out of a tough situation.

To be honest if we do go the divorce route I don't want her in my life. Is this bad for me to think this way? Should I be open to divorce counseling or should I refuse to do this as well? I think she is trying to save face in the situation and feel like everything was agreed upon.

Hi, Tim.

For the most part, attending a counseling session with your wayward spouse is a waste of time and money. If she is really interested in some counseling with you, set up an appointment with you two and Steve Harley.

Otherwise, don't go.

Your wife wants the counselor to help 'soothe' the transition. If you go to your wife's counselor, you may in fact find yourself in defensive mode as you get attacked verbally by the counselor. Again, don't go.

Here is the approach to take with your wife.

"Dear wife. I love you, but I have no intention of divorcing you. None whatsoever. If you want a divorce, it will be 100% your effort. I will have no part of it. Furthermore, if you think that we will be friends in the event that we actually do end up divorced, then you couldn't be more wrong. I will not be your friend outside of our marriage - ever. Just to be clear, I want you to understand that you are the only one ending our marriage."

She won't like this, but it will get her attention. In the mean time, SNOOP.

All the best,
Gimble

Hey Tim!! I'm sorry about your dilemna. I agree with Gimble. I've had three sessions with Steve and WW had three too. It didn't reconcile the marriage at this point, but Steve will tell you EXACTLY where your WW is and what to do. He has too much experience to ignore.

It's worth trying to reconcile because if it ends, you know in your heart you did your best. Hold on for a little while longer to see what happens.

FYI - A guy in my office was ready to give up on his marriage to his WW until I held up the photo of his three kids and told him to stop whining. Life's tough. Suck it up. Do what's right, and see what happens. Besides, the strong man thing makes you look studly! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Tim,

I also agree with SIS and Gimble. I like Gimbles suggestion of the letter.

You've got a lot of red flags pointing toward an affair. You need to do some snooping, even hire a PI. Get some solid proof. Meanwhile Plan A.

That your wife want to be "friends forever" despite a divorce is a sure sign that you are still fulfilling some imortant emotional needs for her and she doesn't want to lose that.

If you end up divorcing you should invest that emotional energy somewhere else worthwhile. Yes, your wife is right, you do deserve better!

Tim...while there may be many red flags that point to an affair it may already be over. Your situation sounds just like what mine was....in 1999! My XW told said the same exact things to me. It was and remains an unacceptable solution. In 2003 we tried counseling and I went to save my marriage (I know it only took 4 years!) she wanted an amicable split. What an OXYMORON!!! There is no such thing. She wanted us to be friends. What I did not know, in 2003 or in 1999 was that two months prior to her telling me all the things WW's do (I don't love you any more, It's not the same..etc)was that she had ended a year long affair. There was nothing to "catch her" doing, it was over. So..you may never know...I only know because it was the ONLY way for us to reconcile...which she had to initiate....in 2004...

in the mean time...the advice given to you above is sound. Beleive me your wife has no idea what she has now, that is someone who loves her...

Good luck....

So if I hear right, I should not go to MC counseling today with my wife? Since today we're supposed to come up with an ultimatum. I should also send a letter telling her why I can't go. What about plan B? Should I send a letter saying that I can no longer contact her etc. or would this be detrimental to the situation?

How do you feel about not going to the session? What kind of baggage is your counselor bringing in? In my limited experience, good counselors are really hard to find. Most seem to almost encourage divorce. I know mine did.

Are you Plan A-ing? It sounds like this would be a good time to Plan A your butt off. Do you have children?

Personally, I'd go to the session. Go strong with your pro-marriage stance. Remember, everybody needs to earn their way out of marriage. You haven't been separated very long. It sounds like they are trying to issue YOU an ultimatum. Take a letter with your feelings with you. If things get tight and words won't come to you, stand up, read it and leave. If she wants a divorce, don't make it easy for her. Don't let the counselor browbeat you.

All is not lost.

People these days give up to easy on marriage, I say fight for it. Stand up as the person said above and make her earn her way out of it.

Hi,

In my experience, people seldom leave a marriage to be by themselves. Most leave to pursue another relationship. Your wife may be having an emotional affair or a physical affair, it really doesn't matter a lot which. I would bet that she is involved with someone, somehow.

It is imperative that you find out what is really going on with her if you have any chance in saving your marriage.

If you are apprehensive about counseling then don't go. If you don't mind going then, by all means, go. Explain there that you have no intention on divorcing and if your wife divorces you against your will you certainly aren't going to be her friend. Friends don't intentionally destroy each other's lives do they?

The MC identified that my wife had been trying to leave since last year. She had an EA and made out with another guy. He basically said she was subconciously taking an exit strategy out of our marriage. This reaffirmed her beliefs. We have no kids and have been married for 3 years.

I told her Sunday, when she said that she didn't want to work on our marriage anymore that I would support her decision. However, I'm reconsidering my stance as she has a history of just leaving relationships and moving on without trying to work things out.

I guess I just need more time before making a decision. As far as Plan A. I've been really nice to her and trying to meet her EN's. She communicates with me frequently and tells me she loves me. I'm not sure what else I need to do, any advice? I guess I will go ahead and go to the meeting, write down some things before and take my stand. It's hard though because she really wants out of the marriage and is already seperated.

Hmmmm....

So she had an EA last year, and at least a partial PA from the sounds of it.

Do you know if she's still in touch with the OM from that time??

If you didn't resolve the issues that lead to THAT affair, then it's not a huge jump to believe that it's either resumed now, or she's found someone else to continue that type of behavior with.

The other guy from the PA lives in England and works on her team, so they are still in contact via MSN chat. The other guy she had an EA with is on her team as well. He's married with a kid and she said that they ended things in December after he expressed his love for her. She said that although she had feelings for him that she did not find him physically attractive and that it wasn't right. She still works with him and she likes male attention. This is what makes it so hard. She lives away from me and she is daily involved with these people. How can I initiate Plan A when the OM are still around ?

Tim,

Not a lot of advice to offer you, other than to sympathize that I am in the same boat you are in, in terms of being married to a conflict avoider who has decided the marriage is over before even telling me why it's in trouble. I know the pain you feel. The only consolation if she leaves is this...if she stayed, you'd spend the rest of your life worrying about OMs, and wondering if she's going through some mortal struggle with being married and not even telling you about it. Even if you ask a conflict avoider what's wrong, there's no guarantee they'll ever tell you the truth. Just know, there are plenty of people out there who will tell you what they feel, and who will set some boundaries and will let you know when those boundaries are being pushed. That's the way adults treat each other, instead of sneaking around like high schoolers trying to hide their make-out sessions from Mom and Dad. And that's what you deserve in your next relationship, should this one end.

The best solution for people like your spouse would be IC to get over their issues, but the way of the conflict-avoider is to push all the issues onto the other person, because the conflict-avoider is obviously perfect and without flaw. <rolls eyes> Getting them into IC (basically, asking them to get into conflict with themselves!) is about as easy as getting a bull to dance ballet.

Stay patient, work on YOUR issues, and make her do all the work to end the marriage if she so chooses. I know it's hard, and you're freaking out about all that you stand to lose. It helps when you finally realize you can only control YOU, and your spouse is going to do whatever her psyche tells her to. If that means leaving you, then chin up, and go find that person who will be real with you instead of hiding their feelings.

hey thanks, your words are just what I needed. It's especially hard as the July 4 holiday approaches and I will be off work for 3 days. Such a lonely time.

I know there are alot better people out there and that even if I did win her back I would always be looking over my shoulder. This is something that I don't know if I can handle sometimes. She has alot of IC in her past over other issues regarding her parents divorce and molestation when she was a child. Walking away is just the way she deals with things and she does have a lot of issues with what she has carried through the years.

Everyday I go back and forth between wanting to save the marriage and wanting to move on and fine someone that will truley want to stay with me. It's such a hard decision and I hate that I feel like I am being forced to have a divorce. But then I wonder if I could ever rest easy if we did get back together again or would I always have to be second guessing everything?

You have a good handle on things, Tim. If you're going to be forced to let go, then just know it's not going to be all your fault that it happens. Yes, you may have faults, and now is a good time to try and identify them and work on them. I know for me this time has been a real opportunity to look at myself and see how selfish and withdrawn into myself I had become. Even if my marriage ends, I know that I will not go back to the bad habits I had gotten into, so I can at least be happy that I've learned something out of all this.

As for July Fourth, don't spend it all alone! Go out with your friends, see your parents, do something. Don't let this force you into sitting at home and thinking negative thoughts. It's a bad trap...you're life is going to go on whether you break up or not, and you're still going to have your friends and family in your life. So go out and have a good time!

And you are onto something with wondering about spending the rest of your life looking over your shoulder to see if something is going on behind your back. Being a "cop" in your relationship is very tiring, and you will get sick of doing it eventually. If your wife decides to do that with her life, there's no rule saying you have to put up with that.

You might try the backdoor approach. SH recommends it. Bob Pure recommends it. And it can't hurt. Encourage her to work on your marriage because she will benefit from it. Tell her you need closure and to know the whys. Tell her that work you do is for both of your personal growth.

The truth is that when people leave a relationship without resolving things, they often cycle into the same patterns in their next relationship. She's going to do it over and over until ??? It is in her best interest to find out why she sabotages and runs away from relationships. All these guys expresssing their love for her and then leaving. What's that about? The years of IC she's been doing have not helped her deal with her issues. Conflict avoidance and walking away from problems are not good lifeskills. If she doesn't figure it out, she's going to leave a trail of relationship wreckage whereever she goes. What kind of life is that?

On the other hand, you have 3 years invested in the marriage, no children and (I'll guess) haven't built up a lot of joint property. As a BS, you can leave whenever you feel you can't handle it anymore. However, if you can figure out what happened, what part you played in it and what you want from a relationship, your future will be much easier. You can also have the peace of mind of knowing that you did whatever you could to save your marriage.

Divorce only sounds like the easy way.

Tim... I don't know. Seems to me divorce counseling in situations like this is intended to deny the hurt party the right to grieve.


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Which is the chicken, which is the egg? Apparently the MC knows.

A ten-year-old could get MC credentials. To be blunt, I think almost all MC are an embarrassment to their profession.

Tim, I'm so sorry for this. Has it only been two weeks since you knew there was any kind of trouble?

GC

She told me 5/23 about the EA but didn’t tell me about making out with a guy until a week later. She had to slowly divulge information. I know she felt guilty and ashamed which is one of the reasons she left. Part of me really wants to try and the other half views that it has only been 3 years of marriage and that I should just move on.

I’m going to go today to counseling and just see how it goes. I’ll put up a defensive if need be. I don’t want to give in so easy. If she goes ahead and pushes for the divorce I’m not sure if I will partake in the divorce counseling. I will continue with IC on my own. Since I’ve been doing IC with the same guy that is doing our MC I may switch to another person. I would prefer one that had a little more religious background as this guy is your straight clinical psychiatrist.

I do think she needs to look at why she is doing what she's doing. It seems the MC hasn't looked at the "why's" only the list of events that made her want to seperate.

I just got out of MC for the third time with my wife who has separated from me since June 11. Although I was prepared for the MC to ask my wife for an ultimatum on whether or not we wanted to stay together he did not. Instead he mostly probed my wife to get an idea of what she wanted and how she felt about us.

Basically my wife has been withdrawing from me for over a year. She says she has already gone through what I am going through now and is far down the road. Now she feels torn between being independent and whether or not to still care about me. She explained that something in her holds her back from being going the totally independent route and also that she hates being alone. She said she wished that I was mad at her so that it would make her decision to leave easier.

She acknowledged that while there is some value left between us, she doesn't want to return home. The MC asked that my wife be more honest about how she expressed emotions around me as her changing moods gives me mixed signals on whether or not she loves me again. In other words, she has a habit of telling me things to make me feel better about a situation when she really doesn’t mean it, and withhold things in order to not hurt me.

From the meeting I got the feeling that my wife is still willing to try, but just barely. We have a date scheduled for Sunday but she did say that if she had anxiety about going out she may cancel. Of course I would not talk about anything related to the relationship if we did go out. I'm really not sure how to read her at this moment. I asked her if she was going to the MC just for me but she said she wasn't and that she really did want to try and see what happens, however she also mentioned that if nothing else it would help us be better individuals. I did send her a letter which did have a lot of impact on her earlier this week. While it didn't change her mind, she did take notice and I could tell it affected her.

I guess I need to invoke plan A. I've read the summary of plan A, but was curious if I need to continue to send her emails, phone calls, etc. or if she has to contact me first? Also do I tell her I love you, or is that forbidden? Should I send her flowers etc.?