Hi, found.

Quote:
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Ah. I see what you are saying.
She has to own her portion of the problem.
Is that it?
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As others have responded to you, yes.

Your children, your dog or cat, your neighbors, are all responsible for their own actions.

Would you apologize to your dog because it bit you? The version of your wife that you are currently at conflict with has repeatedly committed adultery. That is her sole part and parcel and has NOTHING to do with you. Those were HER CHOICES. If you find yourself disagreeing with my last two sentences, on any level, then you really need to spend some time figuring out why you disagree.

Let me ask you something. Have you always been a conflict avoider, or have you ever been a part of, or studied teachings from the discipleship movement? If you have, then you really need to re-examine the whole "falling on the sword" concept and get that out of your system. It really doesn't have a place in working out the issues in your marriage.

Hang in there found.

God bless,
Gimble

Tip - don't watch videos about lovers when in my current situation. (especially Shania) It does not help.

But it was fun singing with DD11. She is becoming such a fine young woman. I so love her.

Thanks, Gimble. I am not sure what the discipleship movement is.

OK - just googled it. No, I have not studied it, but your comment about falling on the sword stands alone anyway. Thanks for the admonition. I appreciate all of you.

It has been a wierd last couple of weeks. As certain events played out, I could, at times, almost hear the music of the theme for each situation. I have always wished there were a musical score for life - constant, and well written - like a good movie score. Like in Forrest Gump, or Star Wars. I could actually literally hear it as I sent notes, and pondered the effects of the karma we are bringing on ourselves. Mainly, I was thinking about WW, actually. (I know - karma is not a Christian term - but it still is the best descriptive)

I have been musing about my life - past and future - and present. Not light stuff - but the deep heavy stuff that happens in the heart. I have not turned on the radio for weeks. Every spare moment is taken by the need to process information. I fall asleep while trying to process all of this. I have sweet memories of my soulmate and I - and memories of missed opportunities.

God led me to Ephesian 5 today.

By the way - men - if you are looking for the next step in how to honor your wife - check out www.e5men.org. There are only a few thousand of us worldwide, but it is the most honoring thing I feel I can do for my wife.

So E5 men is based on Ephesians 5. But I was not remembering that until I was halfway through the book today - after God almost audibly told me to read it.

I am about to fall asleep again. And it is almost wakey-wakey time for Bob.

Just some musings of the day and week. Thanks for helping me stay sane.

far

I sent WW this note:
"***** – as of this date, July 6, 2005, I rescind any agreements that may have been previously made concerning separation, divorce, child custody or division of marital assets. All agreements previously signed or verbally registered are now null and void."

She opened it this morning. She just sent this email to me:

"FAR,
Just so you will know...
You scare me now. I determined in my mind, long before this, that I would never again be frightened into submission.

WW"

I sent notes to her mom and sister, after I called OMW. I also spoke to her boss, and asked boss to check her own work account for any email activity between WW and OM. (I was walking in to boss's office when WW called upon finding out that I sent notes to MIL and SIL) A few days after she returned home, she told me I scare her.

Interpretations, anyone?

Had a good day - took all kids to a b-day party at a skate rink. WW was huffy and puffy at first, but ended up enjoying it. Saw me having a lot of fun with the kids. She gets huffy with me, then starts warming up to me some. Then a trigger will make her cross with me, and the cycle continues.

I have not asked in the last few days about any contact with OM; and she no longer uses her usual mail accounts.

Just an update.

Also - WW downloaded a spyware remover this morning, and is wants to remove the spyware. There is an unspoken battle going on here.

Advice?

Found,

If the computer is yours do not remove the spyware. If the computer is hers remove the spyware. If the computer is hers and you have a network at home you can monitor her activity from any computer on the network if you would like, and she would never know it was being done.

Hi, found.

Just to make sure you understand, you should NOT be falling on the sword where your marriage and wife are concerned.

Your wife stated that she is scared of you. That's bull, but you can expect her to file a restraining order against you. You have protected your finances, and consulted a lawyer, right? If not, then you need to get an immediate move on it.

Please stop sending your wife notes. She is not interested. I wrote you about doting as well a while back. I hope you have stopped that. You also need to make sure that you are not controlling, acting desperate, being needy/grabby/feely/touchy with your wayward wife. If you are doing any of those things, then you are pushing her further away.

I see that you are writing about honoring your wife.

I am going to say something to you found, that is completely counterintuitive, but it is what you need to consider doing.

Stop trying to win you wife back with words or short term actions. She is not interested, and you will just piss her off. Stop avoiding conflict, and be the man that your kids and your wife needs. That means doing a lot of things that you are uncomfortable with.

It is easy for some men to play the part of martyr. Jesus was not a man that wanted to be a martyr. Remember his prayer and plea with the Father? Jesus did not want to be a martyr.

Conflict avoiders usually like being martyrs, found. Are you following me? Your wife is not interested in seeing a martyr. If you want her back, then you need to learn to be the man that she needs. That is NOT a 'yes man' or a guy that is there at her beck and call. That is not a man that controls her, but a man whose actions have earned her respect. You will win her respect by holding her accountable for her own actions, while you are accountable for yours. You will lose her respect by trying to win her back by your self-inflicted pain.

I am sorry that I seem rough with you found. Conflict avoidance has played a huge part in your relationship getting to the state it is in. You have to put your conflict avoider to death. You have to learn how to live differently, regardless of what your wife does. Your wife is also a conflict avoider. That fact will be the greatest difficulty in turning her back toward the marriage. She will need to draw strength from someone. That someone needs to be you. In order for her to see your strength, you have to have some.

Stop fawning over your memories and your wife. Face the reality that is staring you in the face, and act. Wallowing about will only make the pain last longer.

God bless,
Gimble

Hi, found.

Quote:
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Also - WW downloaded a spyware remover this morning, and is wants to remove the spyware. There is an unspoken battle going on here.

Advice?
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My understanding is that you are paying the bills. If that is true, turn off the internet connection and format the hard drive on the computer. You can post and read here from work, after hours if necessary.

Consequences.

God bless,
Gimble

Gimble is 100% right on ..... read and understand Gimble's words ....and take a stand against the fruits of adultery.

Gimble - thanks for your post. I understand that change in me is the only thing that will win her back. I realized that over a year ago, when I found out about the first affair. I was not as well studied on MB at the time, and should have handled the first affair head on. But I knew that I needed to change a lot, and began the process then. WW has seen that, and lived with and benefited from a lot of the continuing changes for the last year. I feel as if I have been in plan A for 15 months. I am continuing to make changes.

On another note - I had a good conversation with WW the other night. She and our tennant are very close, and went out for a walk Saturday night. They are both in a world of hurt right now, and picked up some libations to ease the pain. After I went to pick them up from down street - helping our tennant/friend into the house - WW made a comment that created a cascade of feelings inside me. She said "I could so have sex with you right now." But there was a "but". It had no way to progress, as I had to go pick up DD11 from a pizza party - plus I am unsure of her sexual history at this point - but when I got home she and I talked for two or three hours. It was full of information - about how she does not trust me now - how the letter rescinding any documents I signed scared her to death - how she feels I am developing a case against her and how she feels I could win it - how taking the kids would be like putting a gun to her head. So much - but I want to gather some female input (I heard through the grapevie that Mimi is a good interpreter...)

She keeps telling me I told "anyone who would listen". I do not know if she has actually realized I did not tell our tennant/friend?? I wondered how much she knows of my exposure - she then told me she thought my mom established the phone call with OMW. He told her a woman called, then I talked to OMW. I explained to her it was a co-worker.

We talked of how any sign of legal action on my part puts her on red alert (I know it is supposed to). She says she is afraid of a part of me. She talked about how she thinks I need counseling to deal with control and manipulation issues. (probably do!) She told me she never wants to fall in love with me again, because she does not want to be controlled or manipuated again. (she has boundaries issues - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> ) She talked a lot about the forum here at MB - how you guys, well meaning as you are, do not know her and and our problems (true - we only know what we are told) She understands that things I say are part of the script.

She seems very confused about a lot of stuff. She also seems strong in her resolve to not fall in love with me again. She knows she could - she does not want to.

So much more - I could not even remember a lot of it to journal late that night.

I am reading the book boundaries, and about to try to develop better boundaries for the kids. WW typically shoots that down. She has explained that she has boundaries - that are different than mine. I would love to negotiate those boundaries - but she is not coming to the table. She will have to soon - I am going to set boundaries, and she will have to join in if she wants to be a part of the plan.

Also - she kept saying something like "if I WERE to come back to you - not that I am, but..."

She said her idea of a perfect divorce would still have us all living in the same house, for the kids. It would be possible if I could do it - but her running around is like a 16" stilletto in my heart. She got a gift - and I assume it is from an OM - and it eats at me each day I see it.

Oh - about the sex. Her "but" was - "but I can't". She wanted to - but she knew not to - to stick with her plan to not fall in love. My helping our friend generated some positive electrons in her.

We have had issues with sex since the very beginning. I have always been geeky and inhibited - and that continued into the marriage. Inhibited. She has a voracios appetite - and i should have taken TOTAL advantage of that - but for some reason I did not. I feel like that would be different - but she pointed out that the (lack of) sex is a symptom. I agree, and fully believe that it will be different. I am a different person, and becoming more so every day. Mortar's message to me still resonates in my head. I only digest a little of it each day - and see more and more what he was talking about. DIE TO SELF

Wow. Does any of this make sense?

Oh well - that is the update for today.

FAR

Far, you are hyper-analyzing small snippets of conversation for a positive spin when the dynamics between you is f'ked beyond belief.

Whatever you believe is the derivation of your humility, martyrdom, honouring your WW, Eph. 5 , Dcency, CA or alien visitation the fact is your meekness is fueling your WWs entitlement.

IF you are happy with what you got - snotty toleration from yoru WW and constantly smashed raised hopes, then carry on doing what you're doing.

Best thing I ever did in early recovery was realize that my self respect was my next greatest gift to my salvation, and I need to be respectABLE in order to gain Squids respect.

FAR, you must work out your boundaries and police them.

I truly believe that true recovery starts with self respect from the BS.

Unless you are happy with your snotty, haughty, arrogant and manipulative WW FAR, you haven;t got much to lose by standing taller have you ?

All blessings.

Well Said Bob...take head FAR....

Found,

And she's right, her boundaries will be different than yours
just as her EN's are different than yours.

Just so you know, I made an update on the Boundaries Post on the EN forum if you want to check it out. I really believe reading the book and journaling the questions will be quite helpful to you.

Awesome. Plan A is working!!

There always is in fogland.

I'm not female, but I know fog talk. She is acting exactly as the handbook says. This is encouraging, actually. She is fighting her love for you. Do you hear that? She COULD fall in love with you, but CHOOSES not to. Very encouraging.

My wife said the same things. That she was scared of me. That I had ruined her reputation by telling everyone (which I didnt do...most everyone knew by the time I got home from deployment...it was the running gossip and joke in town). Typical WS stuff!

My wife said the same things. A big deal with WWs is the fear of being controlled. Not sure the whole dynamics to that, but somehoe they feel like they were being controlled, and they wont be now. This will be this way for a long time, even in recovery. You will have to find different ways of leading her that will keep her red flags from going up and making her feel controlled.

And the things she says are a part of her script. An interesting thing was in the middle of the fog, my wife read SAA. And she said for that brief moment, she did recognize that all of this is correct and she was living in fogland. Did she do any thing about it at the time? Nope. But it began to eat at her well constructed fantasy world though. The truth always does.

As I said above, this is typical. She is confused. She does mean what she says. The problem is, she doesnt have all of the facts yet. Time is NOT on her side.

Again, promising. Not to get your hopes up. But in a way that tells you that you are making the right moves, you are doign well.

They all would love this. Cake eaters!

Score another one for Plan A. Keep it up!!

This is where you need to concentrate. Keep changing for the better. It is obvious that she is noticing.

Makes perfect sense when you understand affairs and fog. She is right on script. She is scared of you, and knows what you could do to her life. Ever drive by a police officer and had done nothing wrong? How did you feel? Most of us wouldnt even care or think about it. Now, every drive by a police officer right after or while you were breaking the law? Were you anxious or scared at what that officer might do? Of course you were!

Your WW is scared because she knows she is guilty and knows what kind of power you have. That is why she doesnt understand this, because she would not have done what you have if she was in your shoes. She would have run and taken everything she could have. That's what is turning her on. You area different man. One she cant quite put her finger on. The more power you get...but dont use...the more scared she will get. But also the more she will want to be near you. Why? I'm a guy so maybe the gals can speak to that specifically. But I know that there is something about a man with power that shows restraint that women seem to be attracted to.

FAR, you are doing great. Keep it up.

In His arms.

Bob - I am not happy with what I have. That is why i am reading, studying Boundaries, and devising my development of good ones.

Funny you should post this - all morning long I have been consumed by my Boundaries read, and am beginning to develop them - in all areas of my life. I am about to take control of my life. With her or without her. She needs Boundaries WAY more than I - I hope she finds them. It would be nice if it was before I moved on.

But I am moving.

TR - I will research your data. Sounds good.

MM - as usual - you are my rock. (the one on this planet, anyway) If i ever start travelling again, i will look you up and buy you a beer. Or three...

I appreciate the encouragement. I have a lot to digest. And I am about to call my IC and start exploring manipulation.
(pause)
At 4:15 on Thursday.

Like I said to Bob - I am moving.

Taking control. Manpulating. (just KIDDING!.....)

Mel - Diva - Mimi - got 2 cents?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Oh - something funny. I am currently showing more attention to our tennant/friend than WW. That seemed to have an effect Saturday night. And tennant/friend at leastappreciates it. Still plan A'ing WW - just giving the spare attention to someone else.

(tennant/friend and I are never in the house together alone - always kids, and WW when she is not at work or "out")

Lets see if WW notices....

It would have to be three blocks or more away from the hotel - I work with evangelists....

You know why do don't take just ONE Baptist fishing with you??



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He will drink all your beer!

How do I find out if WW has had sex with FB?

She might be honest and tell me. But she has proven that she does not mind lying.

He is unmarried, homeless, his mom died years ago - he has no other family except an X and two kids she keeps from him (HMM, wonder why??) yada yada yada. He has friends she enjoys, apparently.

I knew he was trouble the moment I heard of him. That is it's own long, crazy story.