Good points Owl.

Once a solider, always a soldier. I live not too far from Mount Vernon, George Washington's home. If you have ever been there, you will notice that the tour guides always talk about "General Washington." Never "President Washington." He did not want to be called that. He always felt that his highest calling was him being a soldier.

So, I agree with you. There is no way I will ever fully be a civilian. The military changed me over the last 20+ years. It will be impossible to take that out of my blood.

You know, I met a few D-Day members of my Division. They were in their 80's and 90's. Some barely able to walk. Shakey speech. But remarkably, you could see it in their eyes. You could feel it around them. Something about them that only a soldier knows. They had an instant connection with us. And rather than just thinking we were talking with a bunch of old men, we instead sat down to talk and eat with our brothers in arms. And we had found out that nothing had changed thru the generations. The same banter they had in the 1940s was the same we had today. Same issues. Same gripes.

It never leaves you, does it Owl??

In His arms.

No it doesn't. I've been stopped many times by men and women who have served and asked where and what branch I'd been in. You can see it in their eyes, and in the way that they carry themselves. And it usually seems to me you can REALLY see it in those that were non-coms and warrants.

You can see it here on the board in some ways too. You'll notice that many times the ones that served will harp on having a PLAN...because we're all used to having exactly that...orders to march to. And most of us know that almost any battle plan is the first casualty when you have first contact...so you have alternate and tiered plans in place.

And I've got to agree with you...I'd trust my buddies with my money many times...but NEVER with my pogie bait or my girl!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Which is why I believe this Marine SGT will take the ball and run with it. Because he is used to having to put 10lbs of crap in a 5lbs bag. He is used to having to develop a plan. He is used to following the plan, even when things dont look good. And he is used to never giving up.

For a soldier...failure is NEVER an option.

In His arms.

Thanks a million gentlemen. I feel like I already have a plan, since I am trying to save this marriage more than anything. She is very confused, and I know we still have alot to talk about when I get home on the 1st. She doesn't know what she wants right now, and I don't know if she is gonna try to stay with me or tell me it's over. That's the part that's killing me every second. I know how to do this i think from my point of view, but right now it's all hinging on her. I've been trying the last couple days to get her to see that we can get through this, that we have to work together, and that this could be a beginning for us. I know she has more to say and it scares me.

Don't be afraid. We have tons of folks here whose spouse was absolutely done with the marriage, who are happily recovered. In fact, there are probably very few people here whose spouse said they wanted to stay married.

You have some of the best advisors on this thread. Stay calm, and do what you need to do.

thank you so much. i really would be lost without all this support. i haven't yet yelled at her or let my anger take over, but i am angry. Is it okay to go off on her a little? Right now it's like I'm on the defensive because I don't know where she stands on this thing and I want to get past it. I'm afraid if I start yelling or let my anger show that it could be the catalyst for the end.

No - It's not okay to go off on her. Come here and rant and rave. That is what I used to do.

By the way - are you near Camp Pendleton - the home of the USMC? I work there.

And no, Mortarman, I'm not hitting on him. I'm old enough to be his grandmama.

I'll take that advice, believer. Thanks. Currently, I am working at March Air Reserve Base in Moreno Valley, CA, where the Marine Corps has recently set up what's called the Marine Corps Urban Warfare Training Center. I am an urban warfare instructor here, but i am permanently stationed at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, which is the home of the Marine Corps, not Camp Pendleton with the hollywood marines, heh, heh. I just had a coversation with my wife on the phone and it seemed good. We didn't talk about any of this, just a normal conversation about her work and stuff. I haven't always been a good listener for her and communication was definitely a problem before this.

Sounds promising - you definately need to be in Plan A. So give that a try. Read all about it here. It includes showing her what a great husband you could be, meeting her emotional needs, no disrespectful judgments, or love busters - ie: yelling, name calling, going off.

When you get home, try to be very calm. I know it will be hard, but that is the best way to get her to work on the marriage.

If you feel like you can't do it, go running or something. Any hurtful remark or criticism of the other man will just push her into his arms.

Of course, he will have to be out of the picture completely. And we can help you with that too.

thank you believer. can you tell me where i can find all this info on Plan A? Also, I am unsure as to how to approach her as far as the other guy is concerned. Like I said before, she told me he told her he couldn't talk to her anymore and she is sensitive to talking about him because he was a good friend of hers for a long time.

I guess I missed the part about him not being able to talk to her anymore. Please explain more. Sorry that he was her good friend, but once the line was crossed, no more friendship. But we will deal with that later.

Here is Plan A and B.

So, then, what is plan A and plan B?

Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.

In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward resolving the issue of thoughtlessness.

A third possible cause of an affair is a lifestyle where spouses spend much of their leisure time apart from each other, and form leisure-time friendships with those of the opposite sex. A plan to avoid being away from each other overnight and making each other favorite leisure-time companions goes a long way toward creating a passionate marriage that is essentially affair-proof.

In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery. It should not be one-sided, however. The plan should make the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse equally responsible for following the overall plan.

But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the wayward spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again.

Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.

Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.

Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?

While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s pouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success. That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion. Marriage, on the other hand, especially with children, has many factors that motivate couples to restore their passion for each other after passion has waned. So when passion is gone from an affair, a wayward spouse is usually motivated to return to the betrayed spouse by all of these other factors. For most, it's a logical choice.

But what about marital separation when an affair is not the issue. In your letter, you did not indicate why you had separated. It may have been for reasons other than infidelity.

In general, I recommend separation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behavior. An ongoing affair, of course, is one of those situations. Hence, plan B. But other situations such as physical and verbal abuse, where one spouse's mental or physical safety is as risk, are also grounds for separation. As in the case of infidelity, if one spouse is abusive, I often recommend plan A first, where, through negotiation (without anger, disrespect or demands), an attempt is made to overcome the abuse without separating.

But in some cases, the safety risks are so great that plan B should be implemented immediately, with no time for plan A. In these cases, treatment for the abusive habit must take place during separation, and some evidence must exist that the risk has been greatly reduced, or completely eliminated, before the spouses should return to each other. Then, after being together again, the formerly abusive spouse should be held accountable by others for his or her behavior to assure the other spouse's safety.

In other cases, such as annoying behavior or failure to meet important emotional needs, where thoughtlessness does not reach the level of physical or mental abuse, plan A should be given quite a bit of time and effort before resorting to plan B. Remember, plan A is negotiating (without anger, disrespect or demands) to eliminate the annoying behavior or improve the meeting of emotional needs. A blanket agreement between spouses to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward eliminating these thoughtless acts, and can also help couples learn to meet each other's needs with enthusiasm. But without that policy, couples often find that they cannot get anywhere with each other through negotiation, and sometimes separation can eventually lead to mutual recognition that they need the Policy of Joint Agreement to help them resolve conflicts.

But, as I mentioned earlier, the risks of separation are great. It should be used only as a last resort to help resolve a fatal flaw in marriage. Once separated, couples often never do reconcile, remaining separated for life, or they eventually divorce. A fact unknown to many is that fifteen to twenty percent of all married couples end their lives permanently separated. These, who are not included in divorce statistics, usually feel that they should not legally divorce for religious reasons. But for most practical purposes, they are as divorced as those legally divorced. Their separation did not create the opportunity for reconciliation, but rather, created an even higher barrier between spouses.

Thanks for all that info believer. Do you suggest reading through this with my wife when i get home on leave, or just trying this without her knowledge?

No, this is something that you do without her knowledge. Don't try to educate her right now. Pretend like she is the enemy, and this is your battle plan.

Can you explain more about the other man saying they should not talk?

It makes much more sense for you to read this without your wife's knowledge at first. The only time that it would make sense to share much of this with her is when she's made the choice to end her relationship with OM...and THEN you can help her to understand withdrawl, etc...

Doing so before hand will give away too much information on your battle plan. She's not going to want to know that you've got a plan in place.

Believer, about the other guy, he is an old fiend of hers from college. He just got divorced because his wife cheated on him, go figure. My wife had comunication issues with me and felt i wasn't there for her emotionally etc. She hung out with him a few times and realized she had feelings for him. Whether this was because of her view of me at the time or something else i don't know, but they ended up sleeping together. She told me that later he told her he couldn't talk to her any more and i think she said it was because he felt bad and didn't want to be the "other guy." Too late, huh? I must tell you all thank you. i can only be on here for another 45 minutes or so, then i'm meeting with friends before leave. I also am cancelling my internet service here because I will soon be leaving ca. I still will be able to post, but much less often. I must give you my eternal gratefulness for all of your support, and i thank God for you all.

I am getting offline in an hour or so. I want to thankyou all again, and i wish i could find some way to repay you for all of your compassion and support. Tomorrow, I go home on leave and i will see her face to face and tell her everything about how i am feeling, and hopefully, God willing, we can start the road to recovery. I can't express how much your help has meant to me the last few days and i don't know where i would be without you. I will post again when i get back from leave around the 9th or so and give you all an update on the situation. Wish me luck!

My prayers are with you. Please, please find a way to post if you need help. This is going to be very hard for you. We can help you.

Thank you believer, I'll post as soon as i can. My prayers are with you all as well. God bless all of you.