I love my WH, but I am seeing that I have allowed him to cake eat and continue to hurt me. He draws me back in either because he is confused or he wants to control me. I don't know, but it always hurts to the same result - he doesn't come home to work on the M.
Here is my question - How do I get tough and make it thru this? Each time I see him I want to wrap my arms around him. I still want the M. I would love to have NC, but I can't because of DD. He even calls her nightly, which means I end up speaking to him.
I know that it is unhealthy and useless to try to figure out his actions, but I do. I am obsessed with his relationship with GF. How do I let go? I know it takes time, but it has been two years for me. How can i become indifferent to him and his actions?

Well, there are two paths.

The first is the one you've been on. Just let him keep hurting you and eventually all love for him will disappear and you will probably hate and loathe him or possibly feel nothing but contempt for him.

That path is sometimes long and always very painful. Since you have a daughter, you'll have to consider how allowing your WH to come in and out of your life will affect her now and in the future.

The second path is also difficult. It is to cut off all contact with your H. Hand the phone to DD and after she's done talking wiht her daddy, simply hang up. Have someone be an intermediary. Embarrassing, but effective.

This works for the same reason NC with OP works. Once you are removed from WH, he is no longer able to make any deposits into your lovebank and eventually you won't care one way or another about him. This takes a while and involves a lot of loneliness, but less anguish.

The second path will also help with obessing about OW.

So, how to you get strong enough to take path 2? Lots of sleep, good food, regular spiritual practice/prayer, supportive friends who will let you vent, and then tell you to go do it. Fear, positive affirmations,anyting that works.

I hope it gets better for you.

In time you will get tough.....trust me!!! I felt like a doormat for a while and then all the anger kicked in and I got tough. I think it took my STBX by surprise. He lost it because he didn't know what to do with me....I wasn't doing things his way anymore. Actually, that's still the case these days.
Keep your chin up and you will be ok. It takes time!

The book "Love Must Be Tough" by James Dobson is a great resource in this area.

Some of your questions, however, have me wondering to what extent you did "Plan B". Have you read up on it lately? A lot of the aspects of it (which are very similar to "Love Must be Tough") will help you in any interactions with your H.

Thanks for the support.
Greengables,
You are so right about the path that I am on. I am starting to loathe him on most days and then he does something that reminds of the man I love and stupid weak me gives in and feels hope and I let him make lovebank deposits. I know it is time to stop. The second path sounds so hard, because he will make it hard. Since my DD is young (2 years), handing her the phone is hard. She will talk and when I hang up when she has said goodbye. He almost always calls me back. He also finds excuses to call me.

I know that I need to get tough, because my weaknessess are killing me. Here is where I know my thinking is flawed, but I'm struggling with it. If I get tough, then I am the "B" that he always claimed I was and it helps him to justify all the he has done and continues to do. Then why would he ever want to come back to me? Now do I want him back - yes and no. I still love him, but I don't believe that he will ever change and I don't think that I will ever trust him again and that he is capable of doing what he would need to do to repair the M. So what the heck am I trying to hold on to????? Am I screwed up or what??

TreeReich,
Thanks for sharing your weakness with me. I have read so many of your posts and have always found you to be strong and your advice sound. Maybe there is hope for me.

I am trying to take things day by day. I am so tired of the tears and living this drama. My DD talks about GF and her son all the time, so it makes it so hard.
I want their relationship to fail so much. She wasn't the OW, but the one that got him away from the OW. He has cheated on her with me, so I do have hope that their life will fall apart to. When i react about her, I'm sure that I am sure that he loves it and it is fueling the fire.
Yiks - there is just so much to think about and deal with. I am trying to get tough. Thanks for the advice. Just remind me often and give me lots of 2x4s.

Don't fall for his flawed logic. Standing up for your self is not being a witch or a b*tch. People say it is as a way to manipulate you into letting them walk all over you.

Consider if he'll only come back provided you allow him to do anything and everything that comes into his head. What then? Will you be happy?

Plan B. Get caller ID and don't respond to his phone calls. If he calls you, say "I have nothing to discuss with you. See my letter of July 1, 2005 if you have any questions." Click. You've hung up the phone. Ring, ring. It's him again. "Hello. I have nothing to discuss with you. See me letter of July 1, 2004 if you have any questions." Click. Ring, ring. "Hello ---" Yelling. Click, you've disconnected.

It will probably take a whole night, and possibly a little more. But he'll catch on.

Luckystar,
The advice I'm about to give is not INSTEAD OF the marriage building advice, but rather in addition to it. It is was I wish every day I had done differently.

Do I wish I had Plan A'd or B'd better so my marriage would be saved? No, I am past that now. But even after the grieving is over, this is what I still wish:

I wish that before the marriage ended in divorce, while my XWH still felt like I was trying to "trap" him or guilt him into staying in the M or working on the M that I would have been SMART instead of EMOTIONAL. Or at least smart in addition to being emotional. I could not see anything but saving our M. But that's not what happened. And I was unprepared for the alternative.

I wish I would have really thought things through and gotten my ducks in a row. I wish I would have gotten XWH to agree to the things I need to rebuild my life while he was so depsperately wanting his "freedom" and was more willing to give them than he is after he's already gotten his "freedom". For example,having him agree to provide health insurance for me and the kids, having him agree to let me move out of state with the kids, etc. Heed my words: Do NOT wait until he knows he is "free" of you to start thinking about these things and working on making them happen. Even if you have to feign being a desperate BS for awhile after you know it's truly about to be over.

Sorry if this sounds terrible, but it's reality. Just remember WSes are selfish and will not care about you after the D starts anymore than they do now. So look out for yourself.

Hopefully, your M will be saved and you won't have to worry about implementing any of this.

Foundwoman,
Can you explain more to me what you mean? Our D has already started and he has moved out and apparently on. The settlement part of the D has been initiated and he isn't fighting on any on the monetary issues, just custody/visitation. So I have a feeling that what you might be talking about might be too late for me, but just in case can you elaborate a bit more? All the advice is appreciated.

I seem to be doing really well. I still love him, but he has made no attemp to make changes so the D is going thru. I'm still struggling with his GF. I hate the fact that he has her. DD comes home and talks about her and it rips my heart out.

H seems to throw out comments like his life isn't so great. That he doesn't do much of anything, but work. However when he is with DD and GF and her kid they seem to do a lot. Is he just trying to keep me on a string?

Then this morning he came to pick up DD and he wanted me to make him breakfast. I simply said that that wasn't my job anymore that he left me go. And he repeated it and laughed. Then he comes here and using my bathroom (leaving the door open for all to hear) and makes a remark that he bets I miss that.

Am I seeing confusion or what?? I'm still hoping/wanting more and although I am trying to get tough, I still seem to have trouble letting go.

Any suggestions?

No, you are not seeing confusion. Re-read your post. You are seeing a sadist torturing you. At least, that's what I'm seeing. Next time he asks you to cook him something or do his laundry or wash his car, just laugh at him and tell him to leave.

That's absolutley horrible!!!! I'm screwed up right now going through a cheating wife and trying to work things out, so I don't have any real advice, but what you just said is so horribly wrong that it makes me sick to my stomach. That sounds like a very bad person to me.

Wow! Am i really dumb because for whatever reason i am not seeing what you are? I know that I am always looking for hope - Stupid yes, but I can't seem just to let go.
So please explain to me what he did that you guys seem to find so terrible. I really need help, because I so want to fall back into his arms. Am I so screwed up that I can't see things for what they are? What am I missing?

My MIL said that he told her that he enjoys hanging out with GF, but has never named her his GF or has let on how he feels about her. He seems to want me to know that he is in limbo and I don't know why.

Overall I am proud of myself. I bought and learned to use a tractor - I never cut grass before - big acheievement for me. I learned to trim hedges. I learned to use a drill and am doing repairs around the house. I am changing things in my house to make it more "mine" and getting "us" out of it. He has noticed and I think it bothers him. So I see myself growing as a person, but I still feel so weak when it comes to him. I still love him and miss him. I still find myself wanting to call him and beg to try again. How can I make myself stop this?

I think you just need to separate from him a little bit. Any WH who asks his estranged wife to cook him breakfast has no remorse. He's telling you loud and clear that you should wait on him. You should be happy just to make him breakfast. Huh?

And when you say, "No, it's not my job any more," he laughs??? Luckystar, it was an insult to ask you and when you turned away the insult, he laughed.

He waltzes in and uses the bathroom and doesn't even shut the door? He's not using the bathroom, he's marking his territory.

He wants you to think he's in limbo because than you'll be in limbo. It's a way of controlling you and keeping all his options open. Have his cake and eat it too.

Lucky, I'd also add "Who cares how he feels about the girlfriend! More to the point is how he cares for you." Let's see how does he care for you? Leaving you with a toddler for another woman, yet expecting you to bend over backwards to lure him home.

One of the things I love most is using my drill and my mower. I love my mower, but I feel dangerous and powerful with my drill. I don't use the electric hedge trimmers. We don't have many shrubs and I like to prune with shears.

I've painted the entire downstairs including two bedrooms. I'm starting on the kitchen in a couple of weeks. I've painted furniture. I've patched and plastered holes. I'm getting better and better with each little project. I've landscaped like you wouldn't believe. Ask around in the fall if your friends are dividing. I've gotten great plants from people who were dividing perennials or pulling out shrubs. Best yet, these are free plants. Digging is a lot of fun. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Greengables,
Thank you so much for your help. You made things seem so clear. I just love him so much that it is easy to try to see things in a postive light, however I have been hurt so much that I must see things for what they are. Thank you for setting me straight.

How much do I put out there for him to see? Is it ok to let him know that I still love him and would love to make it work? Or will that allow him to believe that he can continue to do as he pleases because I am always waiting? Truth is the D is well underway. So maybe it is me getting cold feet, but I know that I have no other choice, but being walked on and I refuse.

I guess what they say about what doesn't kill us makes us stronger is true. I thought I was down for the count and now I see a stronger me. And guess what I love it. It does feel good when we take on things that used to be their jobs and we succeed. I just need to figure out how to get him out of my thoughts and heart.

Well, showing him you love him and would still like the marriage to work out has not produced good results so far. I'd say show him nothing. Slam the door in his face. Then, sit back and watch. If he straightens up and gets rid of GF, cancels the DV proceedings and then does everything else right, you can open a window a crack. If he moves in with GF and proposes to her, you know you made the smart move.

BTW, please consider that he may be trying to butter you up so that he doesn't get hammered in the DV suit. Make sure you have a good lawyer now, even if you have to pay him over time.

Tell me you have a lawyer. Please tell me you have a lawyer.

Yes, I have a lawyer. Again thanks for caring. In fact I was the one that filed. I have one of the top lawyers in the area, although so far it doesn't seem like I really need it. WH agreed to everything in the settlement except for visitation. I get the house at a agreed upon price (very fair market value). I get all the furniture and contents except for what he brought into the M, which was junk. He gets all of his tools and tractor. He acts like he is doing me this big favor, but from time to time I need to remind him that I am not seeking alimony, which could be a substantial amount. Settlement is stuck until we agree upon visitation times for him.

I went to counseling today and he told me the same thing about setting strong boundries and let WH wonder what is up in my life. He too doesn't think that I should discuss "us" anymore or how I feel. He believes that WH needs to grow up and see his mistakes and try to make amends before anything could work. And me pointing things out and talking about "us" has never changed anything so why continue. Basicly exactly what you said. Problem is me living it. I hate letting go and watching the cards fall as they will. I want to control them and I know I can't.

My counselor said that in most cases "the leaver" (WS) seem strong in the beginning, but tend to return to "the leavee" (BS) when "the leavee" appears to be strong and moving on. I just hope that if it isn't soon that he changes that if he ever does I will be strong enough to make the right choice later on. I don't know if I can ever take this pain again.

Why can some just let go of a love so easily when it tears others apart? I wish I could say goodriddens and never shed another tear over him. I wish I could look at him and see thru him instead of wanting to run to him. I see so many strong women here and I wish I had there strength. Thank goodness I found this sight. It has been a God sent. And thank you for your help.

Hey, most of us "strong women" have been in the anguish you're in right now. How do you think we got to be so strong? Sitting around eating bon-bons? No, we suffered and managed to live through it. Eventually, some sooner than others, we learned from our pain and made solid healthy choices.

You will too.

You know, when I first arrived here, I took ownership of the problems in my marriage. My actions had led to the state of my marriage. Looking back I know why I was so gun-ho to take the blame. If I caused the problems, I could fix them! They were under my control.

Ooops. It took well over two years for me to learn I was wrong. I did not cause the problems alone. Nor could I solve the problems alone.

The outcome was not entirely in my control. Part of it was, but not all.

You can control some of it. You've already proved it by filing for divorce. You may not always be able to bring about the outcome you want, but you'll be able to bring about some outcome.

Another idea is to tap into your mad feelings. A lot of people talk about how anger is a secondary emotion and covers pain or fear. True. And that's not a bad thing at all. When constructively channeled, anger helps us prevent people from harming us repeatedly.

Instead of "Why did he do this to me" think "How DARE he? Who does he think he is?"

I could've written the exact same words
"WH agreed to everything in the settlement except for visitation. I get the house at a agreed upon price (very fair market value). I get all the furniture and contents except for what he brought into the M, which was junk. He gets all of his tools and tractor. He acts like he is doing me this big favor, but from time to time I need to remind him that I am not seeking alimony, which could be a substantial amount. Settlement is stuck until we agree upon visitation times for him. "

But even though everything but parenting time was agreed upon in advance, in writing, at the 11th hour, x decided tofight about what he had agreed to - purchase price in writing, claimed he never agreed to the the furnishings, and actually tried to get alimony from me.

Keep up your guard, you will need it.