I have read and re-read many of your posts...and see many similarities between your situation and mine.

Please read my other posts and help me if you can...

I am new to the forum, and glad I came here for support but for some reason I was drawn to your situation, the feelings that you posted at your lowest points are what I'm in now...

The situation I'm in goes way beyond what all I've been able to write...I'm shakey, can't concentrate very well...on anti-dep meds...trying to take care of my kids...she is home, but not...need help in deciding next step...should I back off? not discuss relationship issues for awhile?? I really am confused, I need to develop a strategy. I am a very organized, goal oriented person and this is obviously not an area that I have the ability to analyze well...

Hi Hurt

I read your tale.

HoBoy...

My Squiddy's affair was her first ( and only) so the dynamics are very different IMO. Serial or repeat cheaters usually have issues that go way beyond that which can be resolved by meeting Emotional needs says Harley in Survivng an affair.

I can't advise you regarding yoru WWs actions, mate, they're darker than anything my Squid did.

However I can tell you what worked for me and I have seen working in action in other BS lives, including BS of serial cheaters.

IF You want to give your WW a chance to repent and recover, it must be on your terms this time hrt. You seemingly forgave her previous infidelities too early and left issues unresolved. Such can give 'permission' to cheaters to do so again.

You first need to internalise how you are prepared to live.

If you are willing to live as a cuckold, meekly forgiving every subsequent infidelity, then such is fine if it works for you. But it usually doesn't.

HERE is a story from my personal experience of what can happen if a BS does not value themselves highly enough in response to an affair.

IF however you want to live with a self respect garnered by a proper valuation of your worth as a person and as spaouse you should decide and set immovable boundaries RIGHT NOW and put the responsibility for remaining married to you firmly in the hands of your WW.

My boundaries :

* NC for ever
* Transparency in honesty. No secrets. No lies. Ever.
* Active contribution to recovery

These have ( and still) serve me well.

Realise you have already lost your WW. Nothing you can do will 'lose' her more.

Do not discount the entry price to your heart hrt. Believe me when I say that these boundaries led to a pride in my own self worth that I had not experienced in my life before.

In short, hrt I do not think plan A is for you. I think you need to support your own best interests here and allow your WW to either contribute to your life as a faithful wife and mother not enjoy the benefits of you in HER life at all.

Sorry if this surprises you hrt. Your WW has shown a quite staggering level of entitlement and selfishness, fueled it seems by your acceptance.

Loving HER is very important.

Respecting yourself is irreplaceable.

All blessings

bOb pure* thanks so much for responding, I appreciate it more than you know.... need someone to talk too and this helps alot...not many friends here understand what I'm going through and all advise is "dump the b***h" not what I want.....again thanks

IF You want to give your WW a chance to repent and recover, it must be on your terms this time hrt.

**** I do want to give her a chance, but how do I determine the terms?? I have been Plan A'ing, I don't believe there is any contact, and I'm trying to have some faith in her statements of wanting to "fix" our marriage...but could you please give me some examples of terms.

You seemingly forgave her previous infidelities too early and left issues unresolved. Such can give 'permission' to cheaters to do so again.

***** I agree 100%, we never did fix the problems, I believe that is why the A started back so soon after the prev one. The current one I accept some responsibility for, I have been a fulltime student, working a fulltime job, dealing with a depressed wife that would not seek treatment after having children...(her admitted responsibility, she says she knows she is responsible for the hurt and pain caused)

As far as forgiving her, I do...but she also knows that I may not be able to get over this, (nor may I want to) what I discussed with her today was a "cooling off" "smoke clearing" period, in other words...no talk about relationship, A, MC, anything...let our emotions settle some... She and I both admittedly feel as tho we are walking on eggshells.

The story was horrible, there is no way any relationship would ever bring me that low...when we seperated my children sustained me, and I sustained my children, I will be OK with or without her...but I just vascilate so much between what I want that it destroys my nerves...need time for me think without concentrating so much on her needs I guess.

My boundaries :

* NC for ever
* Transparency in honesty. No secrets. No lies. Ever.
* Active contribution to recovery

***** NC so far I believe, no way to prove 100%
Honesty was the first thing discussed prior to returning home, she was kicked out for several days after OM made contact with her and I found out about it, and she tried to hide it (phone bills reveal no further contact since last time she admits it)***06/13/05***
However I don't feel any active contribution on her part for recovery, except her being home...is that enough right now? I don't know...she has agreed (today) to see a christion MC after the cool off period if we decide to move forward with recovery.

Realise you have already lost your WW. Nothing you can do will 'lose' her more.

***** you are right on, I never really thought about it that way, I have been very careful not to LB, trying to show her this is better than the alternative that I think maybe I forgot about me in all this, still don't want to come across as controlling to her...force anything against her will, etc. or needy, (even tho I slip sometimes) she said today that she feels I deserve better than her, she wishes she was strong willed enough to have NOT committed the A, either divorce first or fix the M somehow through MC, and she was sorry for that.

I think you need to support your own best interests here and allow your WW to either contribute to your life as a faithful wife and mother not enjoy the benefits of you in HER life at all.

**** my problem is what are my own self interests, I don't expect an answer I must determine that for myself, but I honestly don't know...I told my WW when she said I deserve better, etc. That I was a big boy that can figure out what I deserve on my own, and what I deserve is to be loved by by wife, I deserve an honest effort to recover, I deserve honesty, I don't deserve to be cheated on...or lied to...or played for a sucker, I pointed to a pic of our family and said the family deserves a good mother and wife....believe me, there are fixes to me that I have begun working on, whether she is here or not I am trying to look in the mirror and take responsibility for what I have contributed too....just all so confusing tho.


Your WW has shown a quite staggering level of entitlement and selfishness, fueled it seems by your acceptance

***** I don't accept it, I just forgive it. I love her unconditionally (my fault I guess) I told her if she want a D I love her enough to do it if it'll make her happy...( but I want custody of the kids) she wasn't happy about that at all...I don't hate her, I hate what she did...and has done, I just have trouble with the concept of terms and boundaries, any more advise on what I should structure in this situation?? ideas???

Thanks again, I don't know where I'd be mentally if I couldn't see MB and the forums, I have direction now***whew***

hrt

your terms last time were "

* Do anything you like ,only please don't leave me
* nothing else

This time I strongly suggest you set boundaries that mean your WW has to prove in deed to you that she wants YOU not just a convenie nt easy-forgiving platform to enjoy infidelity from.

You have EVERY RIGHT to tolerate being treated like [censored] if that makes you happy hrt. Just do it DELIBERATELY not out of conflict avoidance or fear of being alone. Just as you can enforce decent boundaries DELIBERATELY if you so choose.

READ that link I put in my previous post. read it and think about how you should behave now.

All blessings.

I understand...I read and re-read the prev post... I see how it makes me... kinda whipped...alot whipped really...I don't "feel" whipped but in comparison I agree.

No I don't enjoy being treated badly, by anyone...I can see how WW would probably be able to justify having her cake and eating it too without me setting stronger boundaries.

I will get away from the neediness, the apologetic nature I've been accustomed to... she will need to prove to me she wants to return and work on the marriage or she can go...this was the attitude that I took 2 weeks ago and when she begged to come back I crumbled...Love Hurts...didn't like to see her in pain...soooooo, massive cave in... she is here again, boundaries must be set in place...I really need time to evaluate what exactly those boundaries will be, starting with honesty and working at recovery, if no effort, my effort will be seperation ...this time on my terms, not hers...I guess a Plan B approach, or Divorce...depends on the direction "I" want to go in...thanks again bOb, I think I understand...in re-reading my post I think I'm appearing to defend her, maybe some of her fog has clouded me too....crazy , crazy, crazy...thanks for the advice and support...I'll check back and give an update when new boundaries are in place and give ya an update.

hrt

I'm not telling you to do anything except be deliberate in your choice. Don't cave because you can't be arsed to stand up.

Its OK for you to live as a cuckold if you want. Just don;t do it because its too hard or scary to do what you really want.

If you are willing to pay for your WWs presence in your life by teh loss of your own self respect, thats your business not ours not anyone else's.

Such was my instinct immedately after d-day. But setting boundaries was the best gift I have ever given myself in my life.

Boundaries just say "This is my minimum standard for my personal treatment. I will not interact with people intimately who do not respect these boundaries."

For me

NC was to support our recovery AND a mark of respect to me as a consequence of Squids affair
Transparency the same
Working on our M was to ensure that Squid wasn't just resenttfully in our marriage enjoying the benefits of it without maintaining the fabric of it.

You need to work out your boundaries hrt. Whatever they may be.

All blessings.