Hello all, I'm new here. My husband left me and our 1 yr old son on 2/13/05, but did not mention A. He said he had been talking to a co-worker (lunch and cell phone calls). On 2/25/05, after counseling, WH confessed to having a PA with the OW. I never suspected anything, so his confession completely caught me off guard. PA started in November ’04, EA sometime before that. At the time he was not interested in working on marriage and we were separated for 3 ½ months.

During our separation, he stayed with his parent’s who were not supportive of him, but allowed him to stay, b/c they were afraid he would move in with OW. We began to alternate weekends with our son, so he would go and stay with OW on the weekends that he did not have our son. OW is single and has a 6 yr old son.

WH went to Europe for business at end of April. When he returned, he expressed doubt that he was doing the right thing by leaving. I told him it was not too late, I was willing to work on marriage. On 5/12/05, he told OW he wanted to try to make things work with his wife.

We began to talk and he came back home on 5/25/05. WH says he is only doing this for our son. He says loves me and says we are a good team and we can do anything when we are together, but he is in-love with OW. His head tells him to stay, but his heart says go to her. I am avoiding LBs and am working to meet his ENs. SF and RC are definitely his top two. We have begun mountain biking, something he started doing with OW and convinced me to try when he came back. We are enjoying our time together, but even now, 6 wks later, he is still so torn about OW. Some days he is very depressed. He still says he is in-love with her and now he thinks maybe he should leave again and go to her for good. He says he is afraid he will always be sad if he stays, but he thinks if he goes, the guilt of leaving will eventually wear off. I am trying to convince him that he won’t always be sad, it will just take time and I am here for him to help him get thru the withdrawal. I have several of Dr. Harley’s books, including SAA and HNHN, but he won’t read them. He says the books are for marriages that are supposed to be saved, but isn’t sure our’s is one of those yet.

I am terrified that he isn’t strong enough. The affair did not die a natural death, he just cut it off b/c he missed our son so much. And he has not maintained N/C. The longest he has gone with N/C is 4 wks. He broke down and talked to OW again two days ago and while driving home from work that day, he said he thought he would leave until he got home and walked into our house and saw all of our things and all of our son’s toys. He says it is the doubt of it working with OW and my strength that keeps him home. It is just so hard to hear how much he misses and loves her, but I know he is still in the fog. Is there anything else I can do?

Tell him that it's called WITHDRAWL. Just like a drug addiction. And get him to agree to stay home and completely end contact with her for 3 months.

If it's true love, three months won't mean anything, will it? He'll still feel the same, and so will she. But he'll know that he's done the best that he can to save his marriage that way.

The reality is, if he stays out of contact with her for that long, it's VERY likely he'll start to get out of that withdrawl, and he'll begin to see a glimmer of reality. And that is the best chance I can see for you.

Just my thoughts...

This must be really upsetting to you. It is *very good* that he is telling you this. (Admittedly, it would be better if he didn't feel this way...) I feel very sorry for the WS and you...WS is truly messed up.

I hate to state the obvious, but the OW is poison for him. You have to get NC established and final.



Let's see, he has a 16 month old son now and the guilt should wear off when he no longer has to see his son, in say 50 years or so? Wow, this is major league fog.

Is there any way that you can get him to post on this board? There are many FWSs here that can help him get through this.

Owl, thanks for the input and support. I'll keep working on him. The N/C is hard since they still work at the same place. They do work in diff depts, so contact is really by choice, but I know just being in the same bldg is tempting and there is always the chance that they accidentally see each other. And he is not open to finding a new job. I've tried that already. She is supposed to be looking for another job for reasons other than the A, but doesn't seem in a rush to leave if you ask me.

Thanks Jimmy, I've been reading here for awhile and I have sent a couple of good posts from other FWS to my WS and I believe he read them. His comments are always so negative. Like, those are people that want to save their marriages and I'm not to that point yet. I am always puzzled by this as I think, if you don't want to save your marriage, why did you come back home? He's a smart and kind man and I never would have expected this from him. But I feel like I don't even know who he is anymore. How much good does it do for him to read while still so deep in the fog?

I have seen a good bit about the WS referring to OP as their Soul Mate. I've heard that too. I told him if she was his Soul Mate, why didn't he meet her first. If love was so perfect and we all had a Soul Mate, then why would we meet that person after already being committed to someone else and having a child.

To answer you question, it does him quite a bit of good. I've been exactly where he is now, and so have a lot of other people. He thinks he is unique when he is really just another garden variety adulterer.

He is "spinning his wheels"--he can't move forward and he can't move back. He doesn't want to give up the OW until he is sure the M is going to work, but he can never be sure of that until he gives up the OW.

I suspect that he has figured out that OW isn't the answer to his problems on an intellectual level, but he can't quite figure out what is going on with him and her on an emotional level. He equates what he feels with "love", but it isn't. If he is smart, he has figured that out.

IMHO he needs counseling. Is he one of those "up and comers" in the corporation who wants to work his way to the top?

He needs IC. Both of you need MC. Do you think you can get him to go to IC or MC? If not, then you should go to MC by yourself.

Unfortuanately, reading isn't going to get through to him in a way that will cause him to end the A. It may provide a few little "a-ha" moments though that can help to penetrate the fog for about 30 seconds.

I did the same thing and XH did tell me the stuff I gave him made him think. He also told me that he turned some of it around in his idiodic brain to justify some of his actions though.

Have you exposed at their work?

He sounds like he is still driven by the A in all of his actions. It could be withdrawal. Although now that he's contacted her he has lost any ground he may have been making and is probably right back to where he was in the very beginning.

Don't lose hope though.

He is at home right now and you are doing Plan A.

Part of Plan A is doing everything you can to STOP the A and any contact. Assume there is contact while making it your goal to eradicate it from his life.

Are you inviting him to do fun family events? If you are and he says no..... do it anyway and have a blast with your son. It is actually an advantage to have the WS have to watch from the sidelines while you and your SS bond as a family.

He knows in some part of his brain what he will be giving up. He lived it while he was away and it drove him back.

Now that he is back at home the other side of the fence is sounding good again. Try to give him a view of what he was missing when he was gone the first time.

Are you getting out on your own sometimes? Taking care of yourself?

It sounds like you are spending time together doing things you both enjoy so that is good.

He came back to you because a part of him does want to work it out. The excuse that he is only there for your son is an excuse. Of course he isn't back because he may have made a mistake!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> It's for YOUR benefit because he is such a big hearted do-gooder who puts his families needs before his own <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Just keep up with your Plan A. When he talks about leaving I would maybe look at him with a questioning expression, nod your head and ask him exactly when he thinks the best time to sit down with your son to tell him that daddy is leaving to live with another woman would be.

Or... "You are my husband and we have a family together. The only way to find our way to a better marriage is to work at it and we can't do that if you are commiting adultry. I will not give up on this marriage simply because you have chosen to have an affair and I won't put our son through the horror of his parents divorcing without a full fight."

good luck to you.

FIM

We started in MC together after he left on 2/13/05 and admitted to talking to the OW. It was strange how it happened, he was perfectly normal to me, affectionate, etc. until he left and then he became very angry with me. At the time, I couldn't understand his behavior.

Still unaware of the PA, I got us into MC. The MC saw the anger and asked to see WH alone. After that, WH confessed to PA and continued to go to counseling alone. So it became IC for WH. After another session, WH said he was in-love with OP and began talk about her as his Soul Mate. He said IC said for him to do what felt right. And soon after that he was no longer interested in the marriage.

In the meantime, I started to see another IC as the first counselor said he could not see us both idependently. WH is no longer seeing his IC, his last visit was just before he came back home. I still see my IC and she has asked to see us together. WH said he would think about it.

We went to a Catholic Marriage Encounter this past weekend. It was very intense and I think too much too soon for WH since he is still in the fog. It is an excellant program and we both said we wish we had gone last year, but we didn't know we needed it. I think there is another one for trouble marriages, so perhaps we should have gone to it.

tucson123:

Well, I think you are making progress. Marriage encounter sessions are great. Get him as involved in possible in rebuilding the M.

It hurts me when I think about the stupid stuff I told me spouse.

The statement that finally broke through the fog to me was when my IC said:

"I don't know if you and your W can work out the problems in your M. But, I do know that OW isn't the solution to your problems. OW has very serious problems of her own. What kind of person would get involved with a married man with three kids? Who would want to start a life saddled with a man giving half his paycheck his former wife? Such a person has emotional problems you can't even begin to fathom."

WH had lunch with OW today. He says he doesn't think he can stay in the M. He says even though he won't be living with him, he will be a better father to our son, b/c he will be happy.

Our son has to have a minor surgery next week and WH says his goal is to make it until then. Ok and then what? Now that he has made contact with OW again, he says he doesn't intend to stop. I don't know if I can put up with the contact while he is at home with me.

In the 4 weeks that there was NC, I thought things were going well. WH says they never were. He hasn't found what he is looking for here, even though he doesn't really know what it is. But he thinks he has found it with OW. Hearing him say these things and seemingly give up makes it hard for me to stick to Plan A. In fact, it makes it hard to even be around him.

Sounds like a perfect time to tell him to go be with his "soulmate", and for you to go into a really, really hard core Plan B. You've done your Plan A, and tried to fill his LB$$, yet he pines for "all" the OW has to offer. Get your attorney to protect you financially, and to make sure you and your son are "taken care" of, start your Plan B letter, and right after your son's surgery, tell him to GET OUT, and go so freakin' dark on him that he'll wonder what the hell happened.

Make sure you are legally protected, financially, and that your child may NOT be in the presense of the OW at any time. He will have to pay you some kind of support, typically, and that may be enough reality to "shake" him into some clear thinking.

You sound grounded and strong enough to do Plan B with a vengence. Are you?

He's waffling in the worst way, and if you don't take some fairly drastic measure soon, he'll turn into a "cake eater" and wobble between you and OW for months and months. Let the "soulmate" OW meet ALL his needs for a while, and him hers. It will be the beginning of the end.

Best wishes,
SD

I am close to the point of telling him to get out. I am mentally and emotionally exhausted. At times, I think it will be a relief to have him gone. I basically feel like I am walking on eggshells when around him, never knowing what kind of mood he will be in and trying to stay upbeat and meet his ENs. He isn't angry like he was towards me the first time he left in February, it is just that he is so depressed at times.

I still believe our marriage can be saved. We really do have a good time together, we have accomplished so much and have never really had any problems. We have been very fortunate in life this far. I guess that is why this caught me so off guard. But I just don't know if I can get him out of the fog and I don't know how long I can wait.

I did see an attorney while we were separated the first time, but I never filed. He knew I was seeing the attorney and at the time I told him that isn't what I wanted and he said he knew that and that it was all his fault, but still said divorce was what he wanted. Then he had a change of heart after his trip to Europe and he came back home and here we are now.

So read up on Plan B, get your ducks in a row, get your questions answered here on the forums, and give WH a major dose of reality, the reality of life without YOU. It will give you some time to heal. Strike while the iron is hot.

SD

I started a second thread, but I guess it is probably easier to stick to one. I am new and still learning how this works ...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=0#2748228

In response to Cat on my second thread ...

Thanks Cat, Sometimes it is very tempting not to contact her. I have no intentions of being angry or vengeful. And I guess I am kidding myself to think she would even be honest with me. I just want to know what her motives are. As far as I know, she made no attempts to contact WH after the first week that he was back. He is the one that started the contact again. Is she really willing to let him move in with her? I know she must have her motives, she is telling him all she wants is for him to be happy. WH says she is not asking him to come to her. I would assume she is trying her best to get him to come to that decision on his own, so he feels that it was his decision alone.

The minute they started talking again, WH insists how he will be a better father to our son, b/c he will be happy. That is the same thing he said when he left the first time and then the guilt brought him back.

Does she realize how tormented he is? I would think she would want something a little more stable being a single mom that has never been married. WH moods literally can change from minute to minute. How can he profess so clearly what logic tells him is right, yet still go the other way? I guess he isn't the same when he is with her as she is his drug and he is on an emotional high, so she may not see how tormented he is. Why am I even wasting my time trying to figure out what is in her head?

Yes, it's a waste of time, so try not to do this anymore.



Your WH will be a better father to your son if he stays with you and makes the marriage work, but I guess you already know that.




One of the bonuses of going to Plan B is that the OP has to meet all of the needs of the WS. She only sees him on his best behaviour right now. I bet that once she's spending most of her home-time with him, things will change.

The affair started late last year, right? Many A's die out after six months.

I say go to Plan B. You'll force them to be more to each other, which could be to your favour. More importantly, though, you'll protect your love for him. If you let him eat cake it's going to wear away at your love bank.

Cat

I think your right, they need to see what life will be like together. Most of their time together before was doing "fun" stuff and going to lunch together while at work. He never moved in with her the first time he left, he just spent weekends with her when neither of them had their sons. So they went mountain biking, went to shows at the local theater, and I don't even want to think about the SF.

I know WH and OW talked about him eventually moving in with her, them communting to work together, getting M and having kids someday, etc. But while we were separated, he said she never wanted to get M ever and he never wanted to get M again that they would just live together. Half the time I don't know what to believe. I guess when he says things that is what he is feeling at the moment, but it doesn't mean that is what he will be feeling the next time you ask him. Earlier this week he told me he wants a family, to be M and have more kids and he wants to know if she wants the same thing. He said she changes her mind, sometimes she does and sometimes she does not. He said he wants her to tell him "No", so he can stop feeling this way about her and move on with his life. But I guess if she says that is what she wants, then he will leave the family he has now and start a new one with her.

Exactly!!

Can you see how Plan B will do just that?

Have you read about Plan B? Can you draft a letter for us to review?

As for OW going back and forth between what she wants... She either isn't sure, or she doesn't want to impose any boundries on your WH and risk him saying "no."

She wants to remain fantasy-ish in his mind. That's the only thing that she has that you don't - the relationship is sneaky and secretive.

Wait a second - I can't remember now - have you exposed? To who? Maybe you should hold out on Plan B until after that part of Plan A is complete...

Cat

I think most everyone they work with is aware of the A. When the A was first revealed, WH did not want me to contact anyone at work. I threatened to do it a couple of time and WH would get very angry. We have a mutual friend that works there, so he knew right away b/c we are friends with him outside of work.

A few weeks after PA d-day, I talked to 2 other co-workers. I know both of them and we are close enough to them that they came to our son's christening last year. Both were shocked, disappointed with WH and were very supportive of me. WH got very angry with me for talking to them. Over time, WH told more people and now I think it is pretty much common knowledge and office gossip.

I sometimes think the OW really isn't sure what she wants either ... that or she is the master manipulator. My guess is that it is probably more the later of the two.

WH's family wants nothing to do with OW. WH's sister even sent OW a not so nice email soon after A was revealed. From what WH said, the email made the OW cry. Why would she want to be a part of his family? WHs father said to me in the beginning, "doesn't she know we will always hate her." WH comes from very close family with a large and close extended family. It doesn't sound like OW sees much of her family. Parents are divorced and she doesn't go home much. She has never been married herself, so I don't think she has much of an idea of what a real family is about. Atleast that is what it seems like to me.

Don't be surprised if his family changes - ask Pebbles, who's BIL said that he would help her financially, and then accompanied her WH to court to fight the child support ruling...

Are you ready for Plan B?

Cat