heres a question is it wrong of me to write wh love letters. or to give him copies of his letters to me. i have been doing that and i think he reads then and saves them. i hand wrote one the other day and he took it. he sounded better on the phone the today but he always does after we have had a round for a while. then he will want to get started on everything else. and we go another round. he has a lot of anger.

I don't know about the letters. If he is angry at you, the letters may make it worse. Not because of what's in them, but because of his mind set.

Usually small things that meet his most important needs. Often we do what we would enjoy personally, not what they need or want. We tend to do that because it's what we understand.

For instance, men often respond well to adimration. Telling him thanks when he fixes something, runs an errand for you, or mows the lawn. I realize he isn't doing much, but if he does do something, praise that thing.
"Thanks for letting me know you were coming, it really helps."

It really helped when you stopped by the store for me, thanks so much."

Find things to thank him for. It needs to be real, not contrived. It needs to be sincere, not made up.

Start small, and work up as he responds. It takes time. Watch him closely, ignore his rants.

If he won't fill out the EN survey, do it for him. Think about what has been important to him in the past, and see if you can guess his most important needs. (don't tell him you are doing this.)

Then pick things from the list and do something each day. Small things. If he has a favorite food, make it for dinner and invite him. Tell him thanks for things he does right. Praise him when he is NOT angry, and tell him how much it helps you to cope.

Try this for a few weeks, and see where it gets you. THERE WILL BE BAD DAYS, plan for them, and go on. Don't expect fast changes in him.

Remember, life can still be good for you. Don't let him control your feelings. Act strong, be strong.

SS"

joanna, it sounds like you've been putting plenty of effort in.

I warn you... showy displays of affection, like love letters, can get you into trouble, maybe because they highlight how different his feelings are from yours. On the other hand, if he's obviously receptive to them, that's different.

Where's he getting bad advice? WS look for people to tell them their affair is a good idea, and often that's not so difficult. The OP is an easy one, and many therapists will make them feel their cheating is okay. In families filled with cowards and coddlers, affair supporters aren't hard to find. Sometimes a WS will find parents or siblings who go along with their complaints and believe their lies... "whatever it takes for me to avoid a fight and for my precious baby to get what he wants", that kind of thing.

What are you reading?

GC

well i have been reading after the affair and surving an affair, also infedelity survival guide, just got his needs her need also have dr phils book to. i read on this site and the divorce busters site as well that is all the personal reading for school it maternal child nursing and medical surgical nursing along with a dozen hand books and other manuals.
i know it is strange that he reads and saves my e-mail letters. he even has a folder with my name on it. i went by his work to give him some money and left it in a bag on his front seat. i called him as i was leaving to let him know it was there and he asked if they were gone when i came i said no ijust figured you didn't want to see me. he said oh real sad like. pretty wierd for a man who wants nothing to do with you? still mystified at him but oh well ill just keep plugging. i also bought him a book and left it with the money so maybe he will read it.

i think hes talking to the op for advise since she is his friend and some of his buddies as well. he hasn't gone to a counseler and his mom is an advocate for him to straghten up and go home to his wife

joanna, be careful about being too much of an evangelist with the marriage manuals and all.

I did what you're doing... read lots of books about affairs. It was all I could do, try to understand what was happening, collect data, so to speak.

Joanna, are you religious?

GC

Joanna,

Right now you need to concentrate on you and your family. The BS can't help a WS, they can only help an Xws.

Pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. You can't teach or preach to a WS. Their minds are scrambled and it is worse than spitting in the wind.

Use your time and energies for you and your family. WS' are selfish creatures and they do see and miss their families but what they miss is twisted since WS' don't deserve families.

The one you want back is your spouse. Your H. Learn to know when your H appears vs the WS. Learn how to communicate with your H vs the WS. That book His Needs/Her Needs is a great help for that. If you get a chance read Giver/Taker also by Dr Harley.

For me part of the recovery meant doing less. I still do a lot but not near as much as before. In return it has reduced some stress and gave H a greater appreciate of me. That has helped our recovery. So it isn't all work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

Joanna,

What Orchids says is invaluable. And this concept she is explaining is key I think. This differentiation will save your sanity and enable you in very positive ways.

i am not super religious but have been praying. and there are times when i do see my h and that is great but then it changes as fast as it appears. i am reading the books for me to help with my self . i gave him a copy of dr phils book but if he doesn't read it thats okay. i am and am working on making me a better person. this is still really new for me and i have so much fear and doubt about everything. the one thing i have held true to is that if give the chance our marriage could work. but wh doesn't see that that is why i have addopted the phrase" i am fighting for our family and we love you when you decide you want to be a part of it again we will be here." it just get really hard sometimes. i guess the women in me has the need to fix it and somethings need to be left alone. but i am staying strong to my beliefs. i will hold my ground. i have been a doormat for way to long. this is one engagement that i refuse to change my position on. i just wish he would quit seeing it as me getting my way. thats not it there are no winners in this if he continues down this road we all lose. if he turns it around we can all win. but he sees it as a power struggle and his taker is pulling hard. it always me me me. but hey aslong as i am dug in it can't affect me. so let him thrash. if he does d me then he will be the real loser. he loses his family , security,love and the majority of his money. i am not going to allow him to cheat these children. and if he thinks he will have time for a social life he's dead wrong cause he will be watching the kids as much as i can get him to. iwill have to work full time and also finish my schooling. so that leaves him to the child care. oh well enough for now. i got to getready and go see his grandfather in the nursing home. ill check back later

Joanna,

Your response is exactly why I made the recommendations in my previous post. Please read it again. I was in a similar situation and I can tell you that the more I tried t/b there to help the WS, the more damage I did to myself and family. Helping a WS is not healthy. Helping your H and helping yourself and family is.

Think about it. It is a hard concept for a GIVER to understand. I know it took me a loooong time to figure it out.

L.

no no i think something came out wrong i am fighting my urges to fix him and letting him stew. the book i gave him had to do with personal growth. not marriage. i am not doing anything at the moment to be considered fixing him. that is his responsibility to do. and i know that this is his mess and he needs to clean up his part of it. i just let him know that he is loved and we will be here if he chooses to reenter the marriage.
it has been a rough day. went to see gf in nursing home. he doesn't understand that he can't come home. there is no more home. i can't take care of 2 kids and him to he requires that i be home all the time and i can't do that being a single mother i will have to work to take care of these kids.but i did not tell him that it is my wh responsibility to explain that to him not me. well thats all for now i have to go to my moms for dinner

wel i am back its been a rough day so far and i fell worn out. i have cried to day like i haven't cried in about 2-3 weeks it just weighs on me when i go around family and they know whats up. they understand and have a hard time believing that he has really done this. they never thought that he would run out on his wife and kids like this. i sometimes feel that this is a horrible dream and i will wake up soon and then i know its not. i am really tired and i feel really bad tonight. i look at my children and want to cry for all the things they won't have with 2 loving parents at home. i know this because i am a product of a failed marriage and i aknow how it will be for them. its painful going through life and growing feeling like something is missing. never having your daddy there when you need him the most. him missing all the important things that happen in a young girls life. lets face it they say oh ill be there for the kids but what is really ment is i will be there when it is convient for me to be there. they don't think about the damage that they do to thier lives and how this will effect thier future the only thing they think about is them selves. i have been through he#@ and back with my parents even though they loved me it was still pure He#@ at times. i was lost a lot of the time growing up stacked between the perfect daughter and the son dad wanted i felt like most of my life i was unwanted and unloved. i felt in the way and all i wanted was someone to love me and be there for me no matter what. and he failed me he couldn't live up to his vows. he left me alone and in pain and blamed me for the whole thing. this is really hard to write as i am crying again. it has just been on thing after another today and tonight and it is really really hard to hang on. a little support please

Joanna,

I am here to support you but you may not think of it as such right now. U R hurting and want someone to take your problems away. We can't do that. But we can support you so that you can handle all the crap thrown your way and survive. Can you work with us?

If so, go back a read the post you made at 4:10pm. U R trying to fix 'him'. Stop it.

No more self help anything. Leave him be. Can you plan A your H but plan B the WS?

L.

alright guys i got it no more i promise. i will stick to the other stuff . plan a no help got it

well here i am again the weekend has really sucked. i tried to stay bust but have a lot on my mind. i have been apartment hunting and getting very discouraged about finding one that will suit my needs for the kids and all. if it was just me no problem but my kids need to know that they are safe in there own beds at night. wh said you need a house and i told him i can't afford a house i will have to take what i can find.i have less then a month to find a place and move. minus him. get my oldest enrolled in school find daycare for the little one and try and settle up on all the bills here. hes such an a$$ right now. hasn't spent any time with the kids this weekend. and there is only so much of me to go around. looks as if i am going to have to give up school for a while. not enough support or time to do everything right now. i hate it but don't really have much of a choice. this really sucks. our live are going down the tubes and all he cares about is himself. that just stinks. doesn't care that i have already given up a lot. he just wants more and i won't give in to his demands. can't i have bleed enough and i won't give him an ounce more until i see some changes or i get a d. then iwill get him to pay through the nose. sorry guy just neede to vent let off steam. i am really frustrated right now and i feel it building everytime i think of all the stuff i have to get done.