Ah...I think I understand where you are coming from.

Perhaps I used an incorrect term earlier. Instead of punishment, perhaps therapeutic humiliation is a better?

I disagree that it's the BS job to "break" the WS as you imply. It's not. That will happen as a matter of course. YOU (the BS) do not want to end up being perceive as the precipitator of that brokenness.

I have seen MANY examples of people on these forum who I believe have done it wonderfully. My W did a great job. Even while admitting that we we're having marriage difficulties, she remained my biggest defender and fan. She wouldn't allow others to speak badly of me. She worked to RESTORE me to a place of honor and respect. Yes, in case you're wondering, she IS a saint.

I think you can work to preserve your WS diginity while taking actions to terminate the affair. After all, you do LOVE this person.

Exposure must be executed strategically...not indiscriminately. That's my whole point. I'm not judging anyone for what they've already done. By talking about it openly and honestly, maybe we can get those who have to go down this raod to more carefully weigh their options.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I think this is NOT a very flattering thing to say ... by the way !!!

Who wants to be married to a saint? Not me.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> ... I like a little devil in my life now and then ... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Pep

I agree!

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> LOL! And you have discovered the remaining sources of our marital challenges...

I do sometimes feel like that little devil sitting on my wife's shoulder encouraging her to let go a little.

Low

Low ... I'd flop over in a dead faint if Mr. Pep ever called ME a "saint" ... HA!

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

That makes two of us. (If I ever heard him call you that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />)

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Mmmm, interesting. You know, you're right.

I don't just want to be the good guy...I AM a good guy. Despite having done some not so good things. Took me a long time to understand this. My wife knew it long before I did.

We don't wear the scarlet A forever...we forgive ourselves, learn form our errors, and move on...it's our only healthy option.

Susan ... you know me well. LOL

Low ... one annoying thing my H used to say to me was ... "You're always right."

I am NOT always right and it really pissed me off when he'd say that ... I don't WANT TO BE "always right" ... how damn annoying is someone like that?

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

It depends on if I'm having to follow them through a minefield or not...

good one!

Dynamics of shame and it's function in human behavior is always predicated on which side of shame you are currently existing. I think that a WS or for that matter a FWS recommitment to the M is much more profound when they accept ALL of the fallout for their despicable acts. If there were no lies told in the exposure process, I would find it VERY difficult( or for that matter healthy) for the BS to feel any remorse for acting in a completely honest , moral and humanistic manner

If the purpose of this process is to get the two spouses to reconnect for any reason and for any length of time so that the process can be deemed succesful, then I would say that exposure in any form should be uniformly condemned. However these false recoveries have no place in the "scorecard" of marriage building or marriage saving process.

In short, accept the direct and indirect consequences of your behavior in their totality.

When a WS( and BS) actually realizes the truth of this simple phrase and embraces it's principles..........Surprise Surprise........an affair proof marriage.

Hi, LO.

Quote:
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Exposure must be executed strategically...not indiscriminately.
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I disagree. I think that exposure highly depends upon the individual being exposed, and the skill of the exposer.

I do agree that exposure "must be executed".

All the best,
Gimble

I never felt it was my place to start a smear campaign against my WH. He was living a lie and he knew it. Word got around quick enough that there might be an OW. I never had to say a thing. When people asked I said Yes I think so. My parents knew, my best friends knew...his family did not. I did speak with his BIL about it. His friends knew and he in fact even pointed out the OW to some of them, who reported back to me that she was NOT ATTRACTIVE.

I look at it this way...whether it seems like it or not the WS has to deal with their guilt. They are not children who need to be scolded. If you are training your child to use the potty and they have an accident...do we drag them from friend to friend, family member to family member and annouce "Guess what lil Jimmy made a mess in his pants, lets all give lil Jimmy dirty looks to humiliate him and make him feel bad." Don't you think he already feels bad enough. And if the WS has any hope of reconciliation why would you do that? I remember another thread in which we talked about how we talk about our WS. If we are constantly calling them names like [email]a@#hole[/email], whore etc etc, do we really think that person is going to want to come home?

Exposure needs to be done discreetly and only when necessary. The reason I don't feel bad for "perfectgirl" is because now after all the damage is done and she is D her BH...she is feeling scared. Not a nice feeling I bet, but she brought it on her ownself.

OK Folks...

I have read this in a quick fashion but it was always my understanding that exposure was done in order to get "the secret out" in order for the affair to stop. To interfere. I'm at a loss as to what the disagreement is about.

I found out about an affair my XW had that ENDED in 1999. Any need for exposure?

Reading your sig line, I am confused. You are having problems with an A that started and stoppped in 1998-99?

And then she had a PA WHILE you were divorced in 2004? And there are no reasons to expose that A?

Well said Cymanca!

I think one might want to consider who they are exposing to in the context of what that person might do, aside from help.

My sister told my dad this guy beat her up (different from affair I know) and my dad got so ticked off he almost spent two years in prison for it. He took after the guy with two guns (ex military, one wasn't enough), well the guy had a baseball bat handy, his dad got in the way and was the one who got hit. The police came and my dad was arrested. Dad just wanted to scare the little twirp but wasn't thinking clearly.

So be careful who you expose to, especially your own family members if they might take things into their own hands. And I've very serious here.

I believe in exposure however and I believe in a good dose of humility for the addict. It goes hand in hand with getting someone to see just how their behavior is effecting others.

However once the WS is repentent all these people should allow him/her to make amends and accept them back into the fold. Granted sometimes too much damage has been done, but if the BS wants them back, then the rest of the clan should honor and accept this. To hold something like this over someone's head after they have repented is just not loving and not cool. We all make mistakes.

I do not understand how a WS could hold exposure over the BS's head though, since they are the one who caused the BS to go a little crazy, if they do get a little carried away by exposing to the whole world and talk ugly about the WS.

Low, on another thread you posted the following to me. Though a tad OT to this thread, since it’s your thread I thought I’d move my question over here, if that’s OK.

“Can you forgive those who have wronged you? Do you see that their behavior is about who they are...not who you are? You can take solace in knowing you made good choices when others were available to you. Obviously, not all of us have been so fortunate. I envy you.”

This started me thinking, again, about something I had dismissed a long time ago. Not in a bad way, mind you. Just thinking...

Why do you envy me?

I have been reading here for about a year now. I found MB several months after DDay2. One of the thinks that jumped out at me almost immediately back then is the FWS on MB has it made.

WS have the best of everything. They get to experience all the fun of an A for however long they can make it last. Then, once caught, if they say they are sorry, and many do not even have to do this, they get to come back to an M that is even better. They have an incredible A experience and they get an improved spouse to boot. Looks like a win-win situation to me!

Now, please don’t patronize me with tales about the agony of compromised morals, ethics or whatever. If that was so dang important the A wound not have happened in the first place.

WS the world over have demonstrated the value of a clean conscience is highly overrated. BS forgives WS, God forgives WS, WS forgives WS. Forgive, forgive forgive, if not forget. Wow, a clean slate, great memories and a BS bending over backwards to meet EN’s forever more. Where do I sign up?

Perhaps I might envy you, if only in the middle of the night?

And I would agree with this except for one thing. It comes back to the difference between what is "secret" and what is "private"

If the indivudal to whom the situation was exposed has no influence or interest in terminating the affair, I believe you're doing nothing more than airing "private" matters where they should not be aired. The objective of exposing the affair is to eliminate the secrecy.

Now...here's a toughy...can you do this without violating your WS's "privacy" since we've determined in other posts that there is a distinction?

Certain parties needed to know about my affair. They do not need to know what brand of condoms were used or my dose of Zoloft.

The repentant Former WS eventually realizes that elimination of secrecy was necessary. What they may have a harder time with is if legitimately private matters were exposed. But as I said earlier, they should be willing to consider the pain of their BS and extend them some grace.

I think perfectgirl is a poor example for this discussion Low !!! She is a disaster! ... I just took a look at her mess for the first time...

Pep

I guess I am puzzled, and I truly don't want to come off as a smart *ss, so please bear with me.

You are more "troubled" by the fact someone knows you are on Zoloft or use Trojans than the fact that you are having sex with someone other than your spouse?

Again, sorry but I disagree. I think the definition of "secret and private" is a privilege the WS gives up when they make that "secret or private" decision to scr*w someone else.