Thans Eav. As long as I talk about DS2, H is fine talking to me. Like last night, all I said was "Happy birthday" and "DS2 is asleep", then he volunteered to talk about his day. So I guess that was not too bad.

I guess my problem is I over analyze things (I am an financial anlayst - maybe this is my nature!!). I would think "hmmmm, he really wants me to move on and to be strong so that he does not have to feel guilty, and that is why he acts more normal when I act as if I am okay without him. So that means if I continue to act FINE, then I am only making things EASY for him!", or "hmmm, he volunteered information about himself. Why? He must be having an A and that is why he feels guilty and telling me all this stuff. In the past whenever he was lying, he was always like that - answering more than being asked! So he is in love with someone else....!!!"

I am in the end torturing myself too! Then I realize it, and try to stop it. Then I feel like I should just file for something so that I do not have to go through this emotional roller coaster. Like OSXgirl pointed out - going round and round..... Not very healthy stuff.

I haven't heard from OSXgirl in a while - are you on vacation OSXgirl?

As for the "jealous" thing, I am not sure if that works. Like I said, H used to be so insecure about our relationship and jealous about all the guys I interact with, but now he has told me several times "you better find someone who is successful and can give you another child" and also "you are much healthier than me and normal and you will find someone. I am the one who may not find anyone". I don't think he gets jealous now. Last weekend when I was dressed up, I don't think he even noticed. Besides, even if he gets jealous, he does not want to go back to the way our life was so that will not make any difference.

My goodness, I sound depressed don't I??? Mondays are not my favorite.

this is what i am doing also...you and i keep making a plan then second guessing it...trying to analyze it...trying to consider all of the what if's...we think we are protecting ourselves from more damage but [color:"red"]it's causing more damage to us and not helping our relationships!
[/color]






i think this too! [color:"yellow"] i think IF HE KNEW HOW MUCHH I LOVED HIM AND HOW HARD THIS IS FOR ME-HOW MUCH I"M HURTING....HE'D COME HOME

they DO KNOW milk...right now...they don't care BUT if we follow a plan they may care again

you and i just have to understand that we keep making baby steps (love bank deposits) with our plan A and 180 actions AND THEN we talk about the relationship or push too hard and WITHDRAW that deposit!!

be are just breaking even instead of building up deposits. [/color]


i'm beginning to get it...i'm trying to change it...




in my case...this turned out to be true

you won't know unless you start trying to find out

I wonder how H was feeling over the weekend if INDEED he was not with anyone. It must have been such a lonely birthday! I know he was not at his parents, brother or sisters. Well he popped over one of his sisters house b/c they just had a baby last week, but I am sure H did not stay ther too long given that she had a c-section and she and her husband are very really tired. Besides, it was for the baby and not for H's birthday. And the night before his birthday, it appeared H was eating fast food humberger for dinner. Isn't that so sad?? Why doesn't he come home? Am I that evil??

Oh I skipped your posting Eav.

I am scared to find out though. If I ever see him being with someone else, I would be too devastated. H always told me how important I was to him and how lucky he was to have me.... and if I see him being happy with someone else, I don't think I will EVER be able to trust any men!!!

You know, I just noticed - I was UPGRADED to a member from a junior member! Which means I have been here long enough and active... which means...well, is it a promotion or demotion???

MILK:

I think it's important for you to consider that your situation is complicated by your WH's addiction...

IMHO, receiving help for this needs to be a priority...

This makes your situation different than mine..and more difficult for me to understand...

Remind me what Steve Harley recommended to you....

Well I spoke to SH only twice. The first time, I explained to him my H's background and what happned last year (the arrest) and how he feels shamed and angry about it, and how his therapist thinks he is a SA. SH said "it does not matter, the thing is he has fallen out of love wit you" and recommended that I tell him "the best situation is for us to be happy together again and be in love".

That did not work. H did not want to hear that and said "I have too much anger for you and can't come back". Then he detached himself even further and now says "divorce is the only way. MILK, I do not feel any connection with you. I don't have fun with you. This is over. I am moving on with my life and you should move on as well".

The second time I spoke to SH, he said H may need to feel what his life will be like without me and DS2. The life he is dreaming about might not be that fun, considering the amount of money he needs to pay every month and yet cannot see his son all that often. He called it a "modified Plan B". Then SH did not even ask me to make the next appointment - he just said "we'll play by ears", which to me, sounds like he does not have much hope for my M.

I never had enough time to fully explain everything that has happened in the past, so am not sure if SH got a good grip on what kind of person H was and is now, and how our relationship was.

I don't have much contact with H, and he is definitely not willing to do any counseling, so am not sure if speaking to SH now is going to help much. And because of the mortgage and DS2's daycare costs, I really can't keep spending $185 per hour. I also have to start worrying about the legal costs.

H called a couple of times when he was supposed to be in the SA group counselling, which made me think he has given up on getting help for his addiction. H also left all of his SA-related books along with all other spiritual books he used to read. Then last Monday, a week ago, when I spoke to him and asked him to call DS2 more during the week and on a regular basis (this was recommended by DS2's therapist), he said "well I can't call on Thursdays b/c I have the thing..." He did not use the word "counseling" b/c he was at work, but he was talking about it. Was he lying? I am really not sure if he still goes to see his SA therapist.

milk

you have to know if it could save your marriage

i've realized that knowing and exposing are my only chances milk-yours too if heis having an affair

everyone here keeps telling us this but we don't want to listen

and there are many others here who's husband were very detached and not "fenc-sitting or cake-eating" as they call it. my husband WAS doing those things until about aptil-the he jusmped off the fence and landed on her side

but i'm still not giving up!!

you need to know!

if he is SA then how is he getting his needs met if not through an affair??

Very good point, Eav, I have no idea. In H's head, he knows that he should not be seeing anyone. When he left, he sent me a letter and told me that "there is no way I am going to date anyone now - I am not well and I do not hurt another person". That's because it was H's head talking. Then only a few days later, he was telling me "oh, I am so anxious to meet someone very different from you". That is his SA side, I think.

Then a few weeks later, he told me that he HAS MET several women but some of them were not good for him (I don't know what he meant by that) and some of them were not interested in him because he has a son. Then he got mad and said "life is not all about finding a woman and getting stuck in the relationship! I am not afraid of being alone, I am not afraid of dying alone!" That made me believe that H was INTERESTED in someone but it did not work out and he was hurt and upset.

Then he might have gotten over it. Then when he was sick a couple of weeks ago and cancelled his weekend with DS2, the way he was acting made me wonder he might be lying and seeing someone. Then the way he was acting this weekend as well as how his sister discribed about him not returning her calls made me suspicous as well. But then when we went to H's apartment on Saturday night, it did not look like he was with someone. Of course it is possible that the woman were inside H's apartment and I just did not know.

One thing for sure is that IF he is still seeing his SA counselor, he would tell H not to start any relationship until H gets well. But then again, the counselor told H "divorce is not the solution you are looking for" but look at H, he is not listening to his therapist, so even if he is being advised not to, it does not mean that he would stop trying to initiate or maintain a relationship with OW.

All I need to do is to call his counselor and at least I would know if H is still seeing the therapist, but he would tell H that I called. In the past I called him twice in desperation and both times he told H, which ended up making the situation much worse. Both times H was furious that I contacted his counselor and said "MILK, you are nothing, you don't mean anything in my life, you became nothing in my life, stop calling my therapist". I am actually upset with his therapist - if he wants to save our M, why does he have to tell H that I called??? Anyway that is the policy so there is nothing I can do about it.

i would call anyway.

remeber the calm voice when you tell your husband "i care about you and want to make sure you are getting the help you need."

is your husband in a 12 step program? this is part of the treatment for SA

maybe you could offer to fo to a group meeting with him

that is not a love buster

When H wanted to reconcile (for a VERY brief period of time - about a week), he asked me to start praying together at night and going to SA-NON meetings. Of course I agreed, but he never gave me the opportunity to do any of them!

I am not sure if I am allowed to go to a group meeting with him. This is not a MC. Other guys will not feel comfortable.

Hey Milkshake. I had several sessions with SH. He told me the same thing about my WW. The final Psychologist review of my WW was very firm. My WW is not well, and doesn't realize it. Now from Steve's standpoint, a couple should be able to work through that together. That's what couples do. However, if the WS wants to run from the love and compassion of the person they committed their lives to, then you can't force them. That's why SH wants you to "play it by ear". The WS needs to believe that living in a loving and committed relationship is preferrable to the life they've chosen. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

You need to shine the spotlight on WH. Expose to family if you haven't already. Go to a support group for people married to Sexual Addicts and speak to them. It will give you some good insight into what you're dealing with.

Regarding the court proceedings, you can order your husband to receive an evaluation and treatment before spending time with your son. I know our parenting evaluator ordered that for my wife.

Be firm. Be steady. Take care of yourself.

there are meeting for "dependents and co-dependents" where you go as couples

Thanks Sleepless and Eav. I just don't think H would go to any of those counseling sessiong with me. Remember what he said on Saturday when we were talking about DS2's therapist? H wanted to make sure she is not a M counselor before giving her a call.

Hey Sleepless, I just realized that your DDay was 2/25/05? It's pretty recent! How did you manage to do so much (paperwork, evaluation, flying to Europe, etc.) over the past five months? Where do you get your energy?? Any power drink?? How are you feeling about your M now?

Milkshake, the couseling is for only you. Even when SH talked to WW and I it was during separate sessions. We never spoke at the same time.



My wife and I are both Type A personalities. My WW is A+. Now I know why, she's probably nuts! I also have the metabolism of a humming bird, but at 40, it's slowing down a little! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

It went like this. Once I discovered the affair, it seems that WW wanted to rush to a divorce to justify her relationship with the OM19 as fine. It's not adultery if paperwork is filed right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> That kind of explains why she freaked when I rescinded my Joinder to the divorce and said I was trying to control her! I can only rationalize that statment by assuming that there was some significance to her filing the divorce jointly.... like I had let her go and OK'd her behavior. I haven't been to Europe (Paris) since March. It is a beautiful city, but not for a child. It's great for adults with some money. I really enjoyed the city until January even though my WW had some problems emotionally then. The affair just brought it to a head. People can change, but it requires significant emotional events to effect that change. I'm making sure I can do everything I can to make this a significantly emotional event.



I think that this marriage is over. WW is simply not capable of a long term committed relationship in her state of mind. She sees no value in it. She wants a relationship that she can strictly control. Sex on the weekends with her old boyfriend is my guess. He's still not married. Generally a nice guy, but ....

I recall one statement she made. I want to fall in love with you because I want to, not because I have to. Then she claims she wants to propose to me. She has some fundamental changes that need to happen before she comes back. While I'm not perfect, I'm a DAMN good husband. Even according to her friends, sisters, etc. She took me for granted, and did not respect me the way I should be respected.

You need to step back from your marriage young lady (How old are you?). A healthy marriage is the best thing always. But, you can't have a healthy marriage without both people participating. Your husband has to recognize that at some point. You can't help him. He has to help himself. You can encourage, cajole, and entice, but you can't fix him.

Having said that, don't give up, but make sure you're in a stronger healthier place. I assume you've ditched the single guys that want to take you out. Your friend who claimed loved you. Those guys?

You don't want to see them until 6 months after a divorce is final, if that ever happens.

Geez I talk a lot! Did you ever get away for a weekend? Take some time for yourself to re-energize?

Thanks Sleepless.



But at least your WW agreed to do the counseling with SH. We already tried MC with two different therapists and H still wanted a divorce and now there is no way he would agree to speak to SH.



Everyone thinks our M is over too - well H definitely thinks so. And that hurts, b/c I know I TOO took him for granted while we were married (well we are still but you know what I mean). Now, the difference btw you and my H is that H was not necessarily a good husband - he smoked pot behind my back, lied, and is very lazy. But he said a lot of sweet things to me and I took that for granted. And I did not respect him the way he should be respected. So it really hurts me to think that H wants to move on with his life without me. Did I cause him that much pain in the past? I feel terrible when I think about that.



I am 36, not THAT young...., although people think I am in my mid-late 20s. Well I wish I was younger for real. You would think looking young is not a bad thing, but I am not too sure. Most guys I meet ASSUME I am single with no kids. One time a kid (to me he looked like a kid!) who turned out to be 30 (maybe a big kid) asked me out - we met on the plane (what is this that I meet people on the plane and train??). I felt bad that he clearly thought I was younger than him and did not tell him my age.... well we did not go out either anyway. I want people to think I am MATURE and not a young girl, b/c in my next relationship (if that is not with H unfortunately), I want to make sure we both can trust each other and we stay together as a couple but also as a family for the rest of our lives. I don't want anybody to be with me maybe b/c I look young or anything - then he would ultimately find someone younger and look better in the future if I start to look old.



I totally agree. I only wish that H agrees on this as well... He used to, and again, when I think of it I feel a great pain... what I have done or have not done in the past changed H so much that now he believes in divorce. I know he was FAR from perfection and he could have done things differently as well, but I just feel bad about having taken him for granted for so long.


I didn't "ditch" them, since I was not even dating them! The guy I met on the train has been pretty persistent but I am LEAST interested in him. Going out on Sat. with him actually confirmed my point - so I did not go out the next day. My best freind is taking a break - he cannot take this anymore - his brother passed away recently and so he is in pain as well and seeing me being depressed for the past 9 months for (in his mind) a not worthy guy is certainly not making him happy either. I understand that. But I hope we are still good friends.

You know, I never considered myself as a girl who goes for "looks". I never did. I dated a lot of guys who were short or not so cute. I loved them for who they were. Even though a lot of people said my H is cute, I didn't think he was cute either. H is tall, but again, it was just a bonus for me. But look at me now! I am trying to distract me from the current painful situation by imagining "hmmm, if I go out with XXX, maybe things will be better", but then I always have this thought that would stop those positive (??) thinking - "well he is not as cute as H is" or "only if he was as tall as H is". What is this?? Obviously b/c I still love H, but again, I never loved him for his looks. I loved him b/c he has a very cute personality (NOT NOW!!!). I thought we had so much in common. I hope I can break this unhealthy thinking b/c if we end up divorcing, I want to be able to fall in love again with someone - not for his looks. And I do not want to feel that I would never find someone better than H, b/c that is BS. Almost all the guys I have met so far are at least not as lazy as H. I guess the only explanation is again, b/c I am still in love with H I feel that he is greater than he truly is. Well that kind of stinks. If I cannot fall out of love, how am I going to "move on"??


Join the club!


I really should - it is still hard for me b/c H and I used to travel together and I had never taken any trips other than those visiting my own family alone. So if I go somewhere alone, I would be thinking "we were here together and now I am here alone".

I want to strangle H and force him to take different AD medication and to cahnge his doctor and to have him talk to SH and to remove him away from other SAs who are divorced and having fun.....!!! Aaaaagh.

What is it that I can do now? Just wait? Or do something, including the paperwork to shake things up?

bump

Have you looked into ALANON for yourself?

No I contacted SANON several times but we just keep playing a phone tag, as it is a hotline and no one actually answers the phone. But I am seeing a counselor whose speciality is substance abuse. I have another appointment with her tonight.