I know I am being pathetic. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I KNOW H is not the most wonderful man in the world. He was never the best dad for DS2 either. He is lazy. He is irresponsible. He is mentally extremely weak. He is immature. He is selfish.

Okay, so why do I want/need him back? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I am trying to do the rational thinking, but no success. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I thought I was doing "OKAY" for a while, but then again recently am feeling so lonely and missing him so much (maybe b/c he was in CA?). I really want to know those who ended up divorcing someone you spent over a decade with... How do you do that? How do you move on? This place really does not mean anything to me if I am alone - I was not born nor grew up here, and do not have any family here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Bump...

MS -

One thing I haven't brought up much about my situation is that I do believe my XH is an SA as well. I did not even start suspecting this until well after the divorce was underway and I was way past wanting a reconciliation anyway. And I did have it pretty much confirmed by him. One of the last times he contacted me, after I had gotten to the point where I refused to respond to him due to the total disrespect with which he and OW treated me, he called me to tell me I needed to get the book "Everyman's Battle," that it would answer a lot of the questions I'd had about why he had done all the things he had done.

Of course, his telling me that only made me angry. Why? Because for at least 6 months, I had been asking him to go talk to someone, telling him that based on some things I had found on his computer, he had a problem and he really needed help. He got mad at me for it, called me all kinds of names. Then he calls with this "revelation" of his like it was something I didn't know. Sigh.

In my case, since I didn't know about the SA, it didn't affect how I handled things... but looking back, I think I would have handled things pretty much exactly the same. The advice you've been getting about addiction is good. You have no idea when or even if he will ever get a handle on it. He has to decide he wants to, and then do it. There's really nothing you can do. As you've seen, his focus is all on himself now. Oh, he peripherally pokes his head up and notices you and DS, but it appears to me that is mainly because he understands he is SUPPOSED to. But the SA is his world.

I don't really have any more advice to give. When you first started posting, it wasn't clear he was SA. But with everything we know now.... honestly, I doubt how you handle things will matter at all. All that will matter is how he decides to handle his addiction. And the only thing you really have any control over in all this is how much you protect yourself and DS.

Whatever you decide to do, there are two things that are really, REALLY important here. First, I think you really do need to try and find some sort of support group for families of addicts. I think that would help you a lot.

The second thing is... from things you've said, I sense a very deep need in you to be admired. I kind of get the feeling that if you do decide to go the divorce route, you'll be dating immediately. As you know, most people on here will tell you that's a big mistake. For so many reasons. The biggest reason is - you are far more likely to end up in the same type of situation all over again. You will almost inevitably end up getting hurt again. You need to take time to heal from all of this, and that's something you cannot do if you get involved with someone new right away.

You really are where you've been all along. You can't control him. You can't MAKE him do anything. And there's no magical combination of things for you to do which will draw him back. All you can do is decide when you've had enough of being in limbo, and make a stand based on that.

Thanks osxgirl, and it's very nice to hear from you!

Well, it has always been my biggest question - is this happening largely due to H's addiction(s)? A lot of people seem to think so. But I was never sure, and am still not totally sure. But it seems IF indeed H's addictions have contributed to our failing M big time, then there really isn't much I can do. H has to decide to get help and get better. But another big IF is - IF the other equation is my not meeting his ENs - like everyone else on this board - then I feel there might be a way to help solve that.

I have never dealt with addicts before H, and maybe that is my problem too - I keep thinking "but addicts are human beings too, and they should miss and like to be with their family as well". But like Dru said about her uncles, addictions may be much more complicated than I know and can understand. I felt I KNEW H really well, inside out (H has always been a pretty simple and easy guy to figure out), and now I don't understand any of H's thinking, which really scares me.

You mentioned your H's potential SA - but do you think many guys who cheat on their partners and view pornography excessively can be then SA as well? I mean, a lot of my guy friends watch videos and interenet porn, as far as I know. Does it mean they are SA as well? The books I have read say the difference is that you cannot control yourself - but those I know who watch porn on a regular basis may have never even tried to control themselves, so how do you know they are just "watching but if they want they can stop anytime" or "watching porn and cannot stop"? Also, one of the books says SA guys ofen cannot tell the diff. btw the reality and fantasy world. For example, just b/c a girl on the street smiles at you, you feel maybe she likes you and you may get lucky with her. And I was talking to my friend about that (he did not know about SA so I was explaining), and then he said "but all men do that. In a split second, you wonder 'hmmm, how would it be to be with HER instead of your wife/girl friend? What if I were in love with HER?', that's what guys do". Is this really true? Then I really don't know what is the line dividing "normal" guys from "SA's".

Your point about me needing to be admired: it may or may not be true. I enjoy being admired, but I don't think I want to date immediately b/c I want to be admired. I want to have some one I can trust and share things with. I want to have a family. I don't want to feel all alone. Also to be honest, I would like to have someone who can play the important male role in DS2's life as well - ideally before it becomes too late. I understand the danger of dating too soon. I definitely do not want to end up with anyone who has another type of addictions! And, really, I still have too much feeling for H (the old H that is).

But you are very observant osxgirl. Did you ever study psycology? When I was young I never understood why people major psycology, but now I wish I studied it a little bit. Maybe I could have detected some changes in H much earlier and could have taken him to a doctor and therapist a few years ago. Some friends did warn me that "something" was not quite right with H already 2-3 years ago. I had no idea. Maybe I could have curbed my complaining about H a bit better.

"All you can do is decide when you've had enough of being in limbo, and make a stand based on that."

But what if I NEVER feel I had enough? The rational thinking tells me I should stop hoping and face the reality and move on. But my heart does not allow it.

...also, another reason I haven't been able to move forward is....simply I am really scared to take the first legal step. I was looking over the contract I received yesterday and am shaking...

Synthetic Oil is great stuff. It performs better at the outer performance limits of an engine. Unless you're operating near the outer limits of your engine (High RPMs, heavy loads, higher temperatures), it's not necessary to use it. It's kind of like buying higher octance gas, when it doesn't really do anthing for your engine unless the engine requires a higher octane for higher compression engines. Sorry. Too much info.

Every 3000 miles on synthetic oil is VERY conservative. The primary weakness of a conventional oil is that it breaks down over time due to temperature and loses it's ability to lubricate properly. Impurities also build up. There have been studies where ONLY oil filters are changed, and oil is simply added, and the car runs very well. I wouldn't necessarily recommend that.

With Synthetics, they are not susceptible to the thermal breakdown or impurities so they can go much longer. Some people have gone 10000 miles or more with a Synthetic oil. I wouldn't necessarily suggest that either.

Let's keep it simple. If your going to use Synthetic oils, your good to go for 5000-7000 miles. 5000 for conventional oils. It's more important to change that filter and make sure your cooling system is working properly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> What were we talking about again?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Reference Car Talk guys for more details.Synthetic Oil discussion



It's a symbol of a committment you made. If he sees it, tell him, I don't care what you think.... it's for me. I made a promise. I'll take it off when we're not married. It's about honor, not about trying to cling.



Another gold star for Milkshake! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



It's hard not to laugh at that. I remember the "Your not my friend!".



IMO the SA is catching him. I don't know if the truth behind the CA trip is important. You're not fooling yourself, you're asking good questions. Keep it up.


These aren't the single guys that want to ask you out are they?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

File for the divorce to protect yourself and your son. Continue to work the issue of the relationship so that YOU know you did your best in spite of what your WH does. You can tell your son, "I did everthing I could to be with daddy." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I asked earlier if you had the chance to speak to WH's counselor for the SA. I benefitted from SH talking to my WW. He was an unbiased expert source to tell me the condition of my WW. I would give it a try. He should be able to speak with you confidentially.

Men are probably more susceptible to alluring women than women are to men. As a respectful married man, you don't go looking at other women, so you're not tempted. All me DO NOT assume that if a woman smiles at them, they have a chance to be with her. Men that are single mindedly sexually charged think that. Men that spend too much time watching porn. It was explained to me long ago (by my father) that the girls in the "magazines" are fantasys. They are 2-dimensional and have no flaws. They're not real. When you meet the real woman, the flaws become more evident. We all have flaws. My son went to a strip club on his 18th birthday. When he came back he told me how sad it made him. He talked to one of the strippers and discovered she was a student at a local college. "She has so much going for her, why would she do that." I couldn't have been more proud. He discovered this beautiful woman had depth and personality and intelligence. None of that comes through in porn. Men who condition themselves to only respond to the physical, create problems for themselves later.

I can appreciate the smile of a pretty girl as much as the next man, but I don't immediately jump to "What does she look like naked?"

You need to get some new friends. Don't worry about the oil. Go to church. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />


That's what shallow guys do that have no hope of having a meaningful relationship because as soon as they see something better, they want to try that! Your friend needs a smack across the face! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Get a female friend with a positive attitude.


Spend time with friends and family.


I became the important male role in my 18 year old's life when he was 7. Don't rush it. Make sure that guy is a good example. Do you have a brother or father that would be a good example? Keep your son away from your male friends mentioned earlier!


This is part of the process. You're feelings should separate as you proceed. You sound like a Type A person. SLOW DOWN! Stop trying to do everything at the same time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

God Bless you and your son Milkshake.

SleeplessnSeattle

Thanks Sleepless, now I can save $$$!!! Now... I should be able to change the filter myself right? Is that easy?



True, I can't agree with you more. Although I KNOW that would make me feel VERY DEPRESSED to see my ring. It's like sleeping with a picture of someone who passed away, only to imagine things haven't changed... sigh...




YES! I get this all the time now! I wake him up, he is cranky and tells me "you are not my friend!", I tell him it's time for dinner when he is playing and he tells me "you are not my friend!", I tell him he needs to brush his teeth and go to bed, and I get "you are not my friend!". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


That could be it. If you read all of the recent replies to my thread, they all seem to think H is deep in his addiction. Sigh... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Well it's everyone. Single guys and girls and married guys and women and my family. H's family as well. Oh not to mention my therapist and lawyers I met...


So you really think it's time for me to take the big step? I am going to get a panic attack... I have never been this nervous!!!


I did speak to him a couple of times before (before H moved out), but each time he told H that I contacted him, and H got really mad and started cursing. H felt that I was trying to control him. So if I contact him, he would tell H again and he would just blow up. Do you think I should still talk to him? The benefit would outweigh you think? Also keep in mind, his counselor cannot tell me anything he and H have discussed. So I can't even ask how H is doing. All he may be able to tell me is if H is still seeing him, that is all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

...guess there really isn't much advice left for anyone for my situation. Last night out of blue DS2 said "Papa is coming back Mama"... He can read my mind.

Monday H was supposed to call but did not. I did not bring that up yesterday when I emailed him. But last night (we were out and came home a bit late) he called and left a message for DS2. He said

"Hi, it's Papa, I am calling for DS2 to say I love you and good night, are you being a good boy at school DS2? Your Papa loves you very much okay DS2? Be a good boy and help Mama okay. I will call you tomorrow. I love you"

If he called last night to "make up" for the missing Monday night call, that is good, right. But the way he talks is just so casual and I wonder if he has any idea what situation we are all in. Also H stii has not called DS2's therapist yet. Is he afraid what she might say to him?

Has everyone given up on my situation b/c you feel that H is not in his right mind? That is, not just being in the "fog"?

By the way osxgirl, I am reading the book you recommended. It is a great book. Although I have to admit that it makes me cry too, as (so far) it talks about all those couples ended up in divorce/separation.

Whatever may happen to my M, I really appreciated the time you have taken to analyze my situation and to give me suggestions. Especially osxgirl, you have given me a lot of insightful and valuable advice. I have been truly impressed by your calm, analytical, fair, and clever comments. I apologize if I sometimes appear to not be following your advice - I am always listening to it - it's just hard to implement at times, when my heart is still trying to hold up some hope.

Just wanted to THANK everyone who has helped me through this mess!!

I have started a new thread. I also started a thread over divorce/divorcing.

I still don't like to divorce. But it seems inevitable. I am trying to get stronger and prepare myself for the upcoming legal process.

I would appreciate if you could visit my new thread and give me support.... I can still be pathetic, but am trying to focus on more tangible things such as legal issues, how to deal with H, etc., instead of focusing on my vulnerable emotions... Yeah, right, easy said than done! But hey, at least I am trying!

I signed the contract for my lawyer and mailed it today. Very sad and scary, but many on this board have done it. Time for me to realize H is not coming back.

Since I KNOW I would flip again - become weak and whiney and wanting H to come back... I need your support! Pls bear with me when I start acting weak again.... I am trying to take steps now... Thanks for your help!

osxgirl, Mimi, Orchid, Sleepless, Believer, .... have you deserted me??