I posted this over on the Plan A/Plan B forum and got some very good words of wisdom over there.. But I noticed that this forum gets way more action so I wanted to post it here as well to see if there are any other perspectives

Here's my situation. We've been married 12 years and have two young children. About 8 months ago my wife entered an intense EA with our kids swim coach and about 6 months ago they started to get physical and went as far as kissing. I heavily suspected the affair and eventually found the proof I was looking for.. which was a series of passionate emails. Thanks to the emails I have a very clear understanding of the nature and details of the affair and the strong feelings the two have for each other. I also know the extent of the sense of guilt that my wife had. We went through an ugly confrontational period and at that point she proceeded to tell me all the details of the affair. Had I not gotten my proof.. there is no dowbt in my mind that they would have proceeded to a full blown PA. After Dday I insisted she cut off all contact with the guy and she considered it but insisted that they could just be friends. She also insists that she doesn't want our marriage to end and that she still cares about me... BUT.... she does not want to end her very close relationship with him and admits that her affection for the guy has actully gotten stronger since D day.. . She is intensly in love with the guy.
They talk all the time on the phone and she sees him often (although in public)at the pool. As far as I know.. they are never alone together... but I think it's just a matter of time before that starts happening again.

Last weekend at an out-of-town swim meet she put me through pure agony by having the three of us together in a whole series of social events.. dinners, trip to the beach, etc. It was a very difficult weekend and things have come to a head. I am insisting that she end her EA so we can move on with our lives. She knows that there is no future with the guy because he is not "fatherly" or the family type and he earnes a meager income... Life with him would not be the lifestyle she is accustomed to... and it would cause unbearable harm to the kids to go through a divorce.. something that neither of us want. I told her that if she doesn't end her EA that the eventual outcome will be divorce and she fires back at me that I'm not concerned about the well being of the kids. She is a total "cake eater" and wants a situation where we live together.. even sleep in the same bed... but with absolutely no passion/sex and she wants to keep her boyfriend and be able to go out on dates with him. The whole concept is totally bizarre and unacceptable to me and so far-fetched that I can't help but to think of her as somewhat mentally ill at this point to be able to come up with a scenario which is so fundamentally wrong.... She even suggested that I get a girl friend... It's really unbelievable what's happening.

I love her and don't want to lose her.. and most importantly I can not even bare the thought of having our kids go through a divorce.

Plan B doesn't really work for me because I work and she stays home with the kids. Actually I would love to kick her out... but I can't see how that will work logistically. One option is for me to move out.. but that doesn't seem fair.

Any ideas?

Its really easy to look at others situations and see what is going on, but looking at our own it is so fogged with pain and denial that its difficult.

what is going on is your wayward wife has NOT ended the affair. She is twisted and warped because aliens invaded her mind. She has to justify what she is doing which makes her alien to what is right. How else can somebody do something like that to their own family.

Have you exposed her? I would think letting the swim team coach's superiors know would end the affair. Or the president of the swim team club. Its easy for me to see now why that is so important. I exposed my husband just on Sunday and although I think he ended it before that, I had to have the insurance because I was sick of the power of the secret over me. I was also sick of what I've done thrown in my face.

now what I have done isn't as powerful of a weapon to use against me. and he knows it, and what he has done was way worse and although he hasn't admitted it or expressed remorse (I believe he's in denial) I have to have faith that other people who would here what he's done would believe that it was awful because it was.

Basically, for me, exposing the A was like cutting the fuse to the bomb that was being thrown at me and used against me.

Go ahead, tell people what I've done. I doubt that will happen because I've confessed and rebuked and have accountability. (Depression, moping, procrastination, mishandling money not paying bills, lying about bounced checks to avoid confrontation, and not caring for my DH like I should have been) I take it day by day. When I slip, I make a phone call.

that is what exposure did for me so far.

Thanks Whattagirl and I am sorry about your pain... beleive me I know what you're going through.

I have not exposed her.. although I am thinking about doing so. Problem is the team is a non-profit organization and my wife sits on the board (she is one of his superiors)along with some of our freinds.. And one of our best friends is the president... It would put him in a very awkward position.. I hate to drag others into this mess... but I am giving it some serious thought because everything else I have tried has not worked. No doubt the affair is still going on.. she admits it although says there is nothing physical going on. She doesn't want it to end.. and in fact she wants it to escalate and she is so delusional that she thinks I should grant permission... No way that's going to happen.... this is all coming to a head and I am beginning to doubt if even the threat of divorce will work. Thanks again for your help and good luck to you.

As per Dr Harley's time frame this situation cries for Plan B. Your Plan A has been not only ineffective but has permitted her A to have "gotten stronger".

Who have you exposed to, if anyone? Nonsense talk such as you not caring for the kids coming from a woman who is immersed in a PA( yes PA)and flaunting her A in public can only hurt a BS who has no connection with reality.Your children will be or already have been hurt by your WIFE"S actions not yours.

You obviously need to do a lot more reading on this site since most of your concerns about your situation are answered prolifically throughout these forums.

I would also suggest reading Dr Dobson's Hope for Couples in Crisis. Dr Dobson Hope For Couples

JSINSD,

I asume the swimcoach is not married, because you don't mention exposing to his wife.

How about a long discussion with him? When you three were socializing at the out of towner, what was his demeaner toward you? Smirking A$$#*le or sincere man to man type? Maybe you could get through to him.

Could alot of this be in your W's mind and not reality?

"Problem is the team is a non-profit organization and my wife sits on the board (she is one of his superiors)along with some of our freinds.. And one of our best friends is the president... It would put him in a very awkward position.. I hate to drag others into this mess..."

Dude, this is what exposure is and does. Makes it uncomfortable for all, but hopefully most of all on her.

TAKE YOUR KIDS OUT OF SWIM TEAM!!! Start them in soccer. (Get them on a team with a woman coach.)

So your moniker says JS in San Diego?

k

JS...would your resolve be stronger if you knew the guy was sleeping with your wife? I ask this because sooner or later that will happen if it has not already. There are quite a few folks on here that give you a script to follow. They will support you through your entire journey regardless of where it ends...

If you do not do anything you will lose your wife...

Staying together for the children is about as smart as getting back together for the children, what is the difference?

For myself, if I had known of my wife's PA in 1998 I would probably be nearing the end of my prison sentence. I was slef centered and my machismo would have demanded revenge. I loved me more than her. I am very different now, for the good. You need to address the reasons why she is having the affair...you're not meeting her needs...read the books recommended here....and good luck...this is not easy my friend....and will get harder

Wow! thanks for the quick responses... to answer a few of the questions..

No he is not married and never has been.. he has a history of pursuing married women and at least one of them got divorced during her affair with him. He lived off her spousal support check for 5 years before dumping her. This guy's a real winner.

I spoke to him "man-to-man" once a few months back and asked him to step out and let me repair my marriage.. he said the problems in my marriage started way before (he's right).. and he also said he didn't see how his involvement with my wife interfered with my marriage so as you can tell he's not too bright. After that comment I cut the conversation short and haven't spoken to him since .. because I decided he is not the root of the problem as much as it is my wife since it is quite inexplicable how she could be attracted to this life-loser. But.. lately I've been thinking of making his life very unconfortable...so exposure may not be a bad idea. I know he's afraid of losing his job over this.

His demeanor shifted over the weekend.. He was definitely squirming at the times when it was obvious my wife and I enjoy each other's company... at one moment it was clear that he was plainly as pissed as I was to be in the situation...but.. on the other hand I think he was just happy to be in her presence. I came about an inch away from leaving the scene and hopping on a train to go back home... but hung out and made my way through the ugliness.

This is definitely not just in her mind as I know from the original email saga... and the fact that my wife is pretty open (when I pry) so I pretty much know what's going on... The OM is hanging on out of the hope that she will leave me.

I like the idea of exposure the more I think about it. Thanks again for the advice.

JSINSD -

Hi. If you haven't already, you may wish to read my long, long thread (or at least some of it).

My wife is consumed with an EA. After almost 2 years of this, and with this being the second time this has happened in the last 5 years, I am divorcing her.

My only very quick advice to you: Make her stop it now, don't allow it to continue no matter what. It will only get worse.

My prayers are with you.

Georgia

I know I need to act soon... My wife is majorly into cake eating at this point and I've had it. I'm thinking more and more about exposure to her friends and family.. Also considering Plan B... but I don't see how it can work with the kids involved unless I'm the one who moves out. I must admit I haven't read Surving an Affair.. so I was wondering how to pull off plan B when my wife is a stay-at home mom. I can't really kick her out ... but I'm afraid if I move out it will send her into the arms of OM. I have to do something because Plan A has not worked because there are no consequences for her actions - she has the best of both worlds.

I know I have some reading to do. Thanks all.

Wow!
You are an incredible man. I have to say, your wife is blessed to have you and she doesn't see it.

My prayers are with you that you will be guided to do what's right for you and your children.

Your wife sounds way off the walls...you deserve better!

The consequences and the power are in your hands. Exposure is what will do it. That is the consequence. If you do not expose her, you are enabling her to continue and make it worse.

If you expose her, you are protecting her. Hopefully it will work in your favor. Heck yah she'll be pissed, her cozy spot is now disrupted and no longer fun.

YOU do NOT move out!! There is no reason in the world why you OR your children should be inconvenienced and uprooted because of HER poor choices! You and the kids stay in the family home. You're right, if you move out you are handing her the affair on a silver platter while you finance the entire thing.

Actually, Harley suggests staying together if at all possible if you are planning on trying to recover and rebuild the marriage.



Have you actually worked a strong Plan A? For how long? Have you read up on Plan A and do you really know what it involves?

JSINSD,

"he has a history of pursuing married women and at least one of them got divorced during her affair with him. He lived off her spousal support check for 5 years before dumping her."

How did you find this out and does your W know?

EXPOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

k

"he has a history of pursuing married women and at least one of them got divorced during her affair with him. He lived off her spousal support check for 5 years before dumping her."

"How did you find this out and does your W know?"

About a month before I found proof of the affair (although I was heavily suspecting it) I was at a party with him and overheard him bragging to a group of women how sweet it was to be living off his girlfriend's $20K per month support check.. he even mentioned the gifts she used to buy him from Tiffanies. I'm telling you this guy is a real creep... and yes my delususional wife knows all about it... He has told her that it would be different this time and that he wants to marry her... yeah right.

So... on this concept of exposure.. who do I tell? Her parents, my parents, our friends, his employment... all of the above? I have so far kept from doing this because I know that if this nightmare ever ends we'll have to deal with the ongoing feeling of shame from these people... She would be so pissed if I did it... it's tempting.. but I am not convinced it will work and it could likely backfire...

I came close to walking out last night (my bag was packed).. while family is staying with us.. so that would have definitely been exposure.. but she talked me out of it. I was so heated after going to an afternoon swim meet and seeing the two of them playfully interact around the pool with me standing right there.... Unbeleivable.

She is so addicted to this guy.... that there is no reason or logic within her arguements... She claims he's not a boyfriend because they don't go on dates. But she can not comprehend cutting off her relationship.. She is the ultimate cake-eater and I told her so last night. This morning she was super sweet to me and said she was so glad that I didn't leave because we had so much fun having dinner with our family (I was exuding plan A behavior) all evening.. But today we're right back to the same spot. Her arguement to keep him in the loop is that if he is gone.. then she will have a void and she will become resentful to me and she asks me if it's OK with me that she would be unhappy... and so on and so on.

OK... so what's the best approach to exposure?

BTW I went out and bought Dr. Harley's book today.

JSINSD

OK,

You start by exposing this to the board even if she is on it. You also expose it to her parents and siblings. You parents. And you do it this way: "I love my W, she is having an affair with ****, and I need your support in saving my marriage. Thank you."

As for plan B, it is likely you would have to leave, however, before you do plan b you need to do your homework, that includes seeing a lawyer, for in some states this could be consider abandonment, so get that sorted out. Then, you need to find an intermediary for you and the kids, so that communications with the kids continues but not with your WW.

THEN, comes the hardest part although at first blush it does not seem so, you must write a plan B letter. Now oddly enough this is a love letter, and it should be clearly a love letter, but it sets your boundaries: there must be no contact with OM, the must be counseling, there must be... before you come home. Until then please do not contact me unless it is an emergency with the children and then use the following channels.

You can find examples of a plan B letter, so start to do your homework, but you are NOT done with plan A yet, and exposure is part of it. She will be so mad you won't believe it, but you simple respond, "I love you and I am doing what I feel is best to save our marriage and that is what I have told everyone I have talked to about it." And you repeat it, and you repeat it and your repeat it yet again. Get the book read it, and start to make your plan for finishing up plan A, ad then be ready to move to plan B.

Most affairs fail once they are exposed to the light of day, it is likely this will also, so recall part of plan A is avoid LB's. Be polite, be loving if you are allowed to, meet what needs she will allow, but state your boundaries, no OM. Then when you go to plan B, you have planted a few seeds: 1. You will accept her back. 2. You have changed and avoided LB's. 3. You have left the impression of a man who wants this marriage if possible.

Then you go black on her and you meet NONE of her needs. Also part of a good plan A is to really really take good care of your kids.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you Just Learning.. your advice sounds right on track and has helped me see what I need to do.

We were away for the weekend with her parents and brother's family at their vacation home and yesterday my wife and I had some very nice leisure time together (we went kayaking) and it was a lot of fun.. it's amazing how we can joke about this whole thing... She was very loving which is really messing with my head because she's being so nice that at this moment I could not see exploding the situation with exposure... I know I'm being a door mat .. but she is obviously confused and torn too.. so I am a worried about the whole exposure thing at this moment...

During our outing on the lake she wanted to "negotiate" some way to keep the OM in her life... She even hinted she would be willing to have sex with me on a regular basis. ... a suggestion that I must admit has tweeked with my head because it got me thinking with my **** instead of my brain.. But at least I am smart enough to not fall for it.. I told her that her "fantasy" wouldn't work for me and there is no room for him in our marriage. She was obviously disappointed although not surprised by my answer.

I went home for lunch today and got a big hug.. It felt nice but I know that part of this behaviour on her part is a manipulative ploy to get me to turn down the heat so she can slip into a more discreet mode with the OM.

I haven't had a chance to read the book yet but will do so little by little this week (I don't really want her to see it) For the time being I will focus on being polite and loving... but if she makes any moves closer to the OM it will be exposure time.

Thanks again to all who have posted here.

All part of the script, my friend. In my case, my wife had an EA with an OM she met online. So she was insistent for almost two months that they could 'just remain friends'. It took a while, but once she got out of the fog and withdrawl, she realized why that could never have worked out.

It's a matter of getting the affair to end, and NO CONTACT with them in place for a while...you might consider challenging her. Tell her that if she can ABSOLUTELY maintain NC with OM for three months, that at the end of that she can leave and be with him. Tell her that if it's 'true love', then three months will mean nothing to their relationship.

The truth is, if you can really get the contact to end for that length of time, and at the same time Plan A properly, you'll almost always win your spouse back that way.

Just my thoughts.

I strongly urge you to call the Harleys for counseling. You are a perfect candidate for their advice/assistance.

OWL and JSINSD,

""Tell her that if she can ABSOLUTELY maintain NC with OM for three months, that at the end of that she can leave and be with him. Tell her that if it's 'true love', then three months will mean nothing to their relationship.""

Ya know that is a very good thought!!

Anyone else here ever used this??

The WS probably would not even consider it because of the withdrawal pains. Nor would the OM go along with it.

DAMN THOSE OMs amd OWs!!!

k

JSND:

Unfortunately most WWs do not see the flaws of OM------ do not be surprised by this. Do not try to point out the flaws of OM------- it does not work. All WWs defend OM despite obvious shortcomings. They need to discover that OM is not a nice man on their own.

Understand that you are sponsoring or enabling this affair. You pay part of the salary of OM and provide your wife the time to have an affair with a man that is not capable of being a good provider like you. Within the framework of the affair all OM needs to do is SMOOTH talk and know when to say the right words for your wife to hear. At this time OM presents himself as a very caring vulnerable man who tells your wife he is struggling with the guilt of being attracted to a married woman. I bet he even tells your wife he would like the two of you to be happy. It is the same OLD----- all OMs do it. Many WWs consider the idea of open marriage------- it is all fog----- it never works.

These are some things you can try:

1. No more swimming lessons.

2. Wife off the board.

3. Look for a job in another state and move the family

4. Disconnect your wife’s cell phone. Let OM buy her one------ if he does---- youi know things are deep------ probably PA.

5. Talk to OM again, but do so in a stern manner. Tell him you will destroy him if he does not stop. Do not hit him------- unless you are from the Bob Pure School. It is unlikely this will not work as OM likely has an antisocial personality with no capacity to feel guilt or remorse. It is likely OM rationalizes all his evil acts. He truly believes he is not a problem. But, there is always a chamce he could have 1% of decency.

6. Privately tell all board members about OM. Demand that OM be fired.

7. Give the SAA book to your wife and tell her to read the book-------- be firm.

8. Tell your kids mom is too friendly with the coach and therefore they cannot swim anymore.

CIAO!