Thanks BrambleRose, I have scheduled an appointment with Steve Harley on Friday. I'll let you know how it goes.

Nothing new to report here other than FIL called me and suggested that if things continue that I should ask WW to leave the house (he read my mind!) and he said that in that event they would come down and help me with the kids.

JSINSD

Oh my goodness. This is wonderful. My ILs were absolutely a huge factor in pressuring the affair to end. And not only that, but they really pitched in to help me with things that my husband was no longer around to do.

I'll be waiting to hear what Steve has to say. I think your wife is going to need some pretty strong doses of reality.

Hello JSINSD

Sounds like IL are going to help you out. Be especially grateful and understanding because eventually their daughter is going to have to be their daughter again...someday. Just reassure them that although they are picking sides now you will always, no matter what happens btwn you and w, include them fully in the lives of their grandkids. In the event of custody dispute having them on your team, or at least, unbiased, will help. Hopefully, you'll never get to that point. There's no reason Plan A followed by the inevitable Plan B won't shake this loser.

My wife's OM took off when a little reality broke into their relationship. You are not as fortunate as I. My W, although back completely with me now, fears should would have road the fence till pretty much forced to give OM up. Plan B would have provided that hammer. It was just that intoxicating for her. They do actually regret what their doing (though your eavesdropping seems to indicate otherwise). It's just fun with OM...she's drunk with the way he makes her feel about herself...why come back to you if she doesn't have to today...will one more day, week, month, really matter...coming back to you means dealing with guilt, withdrawal and recovery. How much fun is that going to be? She's probably rewritten your history enough that she feels entitled to the A, to keeping it going to punish you though in the end she doesn't imagine ever leaving you for him.

Exposure didn't work. I agree, if more PA is happening that may be your boundry for Plan B. Because you may be going to Plan B prior to the recommended 6 months- I have seen on the boards discussion of a Plan A/B mix. I think it works where you cut her out, but occasionally have contact on your terms and within your boundaries wherein you Plan A her. I don't know. But setting her up for Plan B once school starts is a good idea. I don't think you are supposed to warn her about Plan B ... so no threats. When it happens it happens...leave her up in the air for now as to your intentions because she will continually attempt to feel out your boundaries. Just say you are discussing things with your minister, counselor, attorney, parents, in-laws and weighing out your options. There are boundaries you are attempting to figure out and you'll get back to her. Keep your game plan close to the vest. Besides your in Plan A for now and that's all she needs to know.

I used to say - I am going to make it, I'd prefer to make it with you... allow me the opportunity to be a better husband, today and we'll let tomorrow take care of itself.

Good luck. Mr. WWWondering

P.S. - Just a reminder, although being a good father is obviously important, ultimately it's not what is going to win your wife's heart back. You need time alone with her, eye to eye, with no kids around to effectively communicate romantic love.

I spoke to Steve Harley today. His recomendations surprised me a bit since I expected him to recommend a swift plan B. Actually he did not really speak in terms of Plan A/Plan B.. although he was definitely aluding to continuing and enhancing a plan A-type scenario as long as I can.

I gave him an abreviated version of the whole story. His recommendation is that I "treat the affair as a secondary issue"... and focus on a plan to improve the marriage if and when the affair ends. He seemed to think that the fact that Coach is a player will likely help speed the end of the affair.. (I certainly hope so).

He emphasized that due to the severity of my wife's addiction I should think of her as somebody under the influence all the time. He made many comparisons to drug addicts and alcoholics. He was surprised at the level of scheming my wife is doing to keep the affair a secret, especially after two D-days and exposure.

Rather than attack the affair head on, his suggestion is I present her with a plan or a strategy have a great marriage. He correctly surmised that my wife is the type who likes a plan.. since in her normal mode she relates more to logic than emotion... (however in the case of her affair she is operating on pure emotion!)

He said that right now the marriage is not an attractive alternative to what she has with OM.. and that before she will be willing to see the light, she'll need to have confidence that the marriage can be a good place.. based upon a plan to get there.

On the subject of going to plan B he said I'm not ready.. because it's important for WW to know that I have a plan to get to a fulfilling marriage. As for further exposure.. he said it's not a good idea, becuase again I should treat the affair as a secondary issue... and it appears that previous exposure efforts have not really been effective.

He said I should learn how to guard myself so that this ordeal does not sap me of all my energy. He suggested that I might want to consider antidepresants to help "clip off the lows and the highs"... said it would help me focus on the bigger picture and other issues such as my career.

Well... I will admit that I did not expect any magic bullets from Steve, but I am glad I talked to him. He had some good insight and I agree with most of what he said. If and when PA starts up again... I'm not sure what my reaction will be... maybe those antidepresents aren't such a bad idea.

JSINSD

This is good.

Yes, please get ADs. You really have to take care of yourself, because a good Plan A is really really hard.

The thing I liked about Steve was that he guaged where I was at emotionally every week, and based his advice there. I don't think he'll leave you in Plan A indefinitely.

I also have a little theory that Steve tends to keep guys doing a Plan A longer than women. And it looks like the case here.

Affairs do = addiction. Since I qualify for Al-Anon and was attending meetings during my husband's affair, I feel very very lucky. The messages I took home there helped me tremendously with my husband's affair.

Please keep talking to him regularly.

WW, kids, and I went away for a 5 day trip for a conference I was attending. It was a nice break to be in a different state than OM. I was working at the conference but we did have quite a bit of time to enjoy ourselves as a family. I knew that the pleasantries would be short lived however since we had to come back last night and school started today.

Sure enough..after I went to work this morning WW immediately made arrangements to "go to coffee" with Coach.

I called her on it in the afternoon and asked if she saw "her friend" today and at first she said no.. I pressed her on the issue and then she admitted that she did.. but she insists that there was no physical contact.. and this is all in compliance with her "no contact contract" which to her means no touching..

Well we had a long conversation together and she is trying to say that this time it's different and the old physical relationship is totally over this time... I told her that I can't believe her because she has lied so much in the past.. and that I can't accept any type of continued relationship with OM and that "no contact" means "no contact".

This is not working. Over the weekend I did not bring up the affair one time. I throught we were sort of hitting it off together.. but I wouldn't allow myself to be fooled too much.. Oh yeah.. and I also learned today that she was in telephone contact with OM somehow while we were out of state.. She must have a prepaid phone card or something since no calls showed up on her cell phone or the hotel phone bill. She may have a new secret phone.

This is going nowhere fast..

JSinSD,

I only read your original post. This was my EXACT situation in April 2003. Do NOT let it happen. If she ends up doing this then let it be 100% on her head. I made the mistake of giving in. My wife also told me to get a girlfriend but I couldn't do it. If you let this happen (even with the intention that it will be better for the marriage overall) it will destroy you and your marriage.

Do NOT give in. I know I have made that wretched mistake!!!

Hello again JDINSD,

Welcome back. I presume you've read the 180 plan (if not, follow the link below). It can kind of be a Plan A and/or B all in one.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000476

I don't know much about it so you can look around the site discussion board for threads on it's implementation. However, since you are in contact with Steve Harley don't do anything unless he advises it. He's the actual professional.

Good luck, I'll be watching but your getting past the point where I obtained recovery so I become at little apprehensive to offer suggestions since I have no actual experience to offer. I am confident you will prevail..I just can't get past her choice of AP...the swim coach....really? The fog is thick.

Mr. Wondering

Hello everyone..

I am not certain if I am making progress (meaning perhaps NC has begun) or if WW has simply figured out my snooping method and has found new ways to communicate with coach..
Time will tell.

The purpose of my posting today is to pose a question that WW posed to me today. She is resigning from her position on the swim team board (not because she wants to.. but because I have requested it). Remember that I exposed to two board members.. one of which is the president. I have (against all my instincts) allowed our kids to stay on the team for the time being.

At any rate.. WW is asking me what she should tell the other board members (the ones who don't know about the affair) and all the other parents. You see WW is very active on the team and pretty much runs things on a day-to-day basis... so her departure will seem very abrupt and surprising to people. She is frightened about quiting the board because she doesn't know what to give as the "public" reason... even though the president and one other board member know the real reason.

She's being VERY pissy to me which I actually think is a good thing... and I have not seen any sign of her contacting coach for 3 days now.

Any suggestions on what I can suggest to her as the reason for her quitting the board?

JSINSD

I would say that I needed a break from all the work. That it was getting to be to much for me. Wants to spend more time with family and her husband.

Turf toe <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

she wanted to spend more time with her husband *snort* aka not spending time with the coach

JDINSD,

Welcome back;

Are there any other swim teams in the area you can join. I think you should eventually remove your children from this guy in order to maintain NC. Thus she would be leaving the board because you guys are leaving the program (you get to add that you believe the Coach is better there - maybe).

Is this a country club where you do other things as well, like golf, eat, tennis or just a local swim club? Either way look for another club or just say your quiting for personal reason. Let them wonder if it's financial, health or whatever. You may be suprised to discover the rumor's already gone around the place anyway so whatever you say they will just nod their knowing heads.

If you are stuck there b/c it's your Country Club and you've paid a huge membership fee ....can't you get Coach fired.

Wish you the best.

Mr. Wondering

Yes there are plenty of other teams around the area and in my opinion they all have WAY better coaching.

Unfortunately at this point the team has become the entire focal point of WW's entire social life... and I'm not just talking about her relationship with Coach. She has many good friends who are parents of other kids on the team.. and her volunteer work for the team has been rewarding for her.. and has helped her boost her self esteem .. of course most would say that she has gone way beyond the call of duty "for the team" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />.

Over the weekend she told me that she was really ending things with Coach and I said that means of course we were quitting the team... She basically freaked .. started crying, saying that I am taking everything from her.. she also went on-and-on about the kids' friendships that will be lost.. yada yada yada... so I basically caved and agreed to let the kids stay with the team as long as she quit the board and stop contacting Coach.. Of course I know that contact can never end unless we quit the team.. But, the deal is.. next time I learn she is sneaking off together with Coach.. we will definitely and finally be off the team.

We'll see what happens... and I will let you know.

Thanks again to everyone here.

Hey, with continued contact there will be no recovery....

ask me how I know this. I'm living it.

Be the father, the man of the house and pull them out. You are also their parent and why should you allow your children's activities to undermine your marriage?

be brave, you can do it....

OK Veterans.. what do you make of this?

first.. a quick recap:

For those of you following my thread... you know that WW has been in an affair with our kids swimming coach for about 8 or 9 months. First D-Day was last March 1 and she said she would end it... but that they could "just be friends".. Throughout the summer she admitted that she was emotionally attached to the guy and she talked to him daily.. but that she was never alone with him. In July I stepped up my snooping and found that it was actually a full blown PA... That was D-DAY #2. I exposed to the appropriate individuals and again she said she would end it... which of course she did not.

I do know that she has at least temporarily stopped having SF with the guy but still was "going to coffee" with him as recently as a weekd ago which in her mind was perfectly OK. I told her no contact means no contact.

Things once again came to a head last weekend and I basically told her that she would have to move out if things continued. I was preparing for plan B. She really responded to this.. because she says she does not want to split of the family for the kids sake. She definitly does not want anyone (she or I) moving out of the house. She said again that she had ended the affair and that she would stop all contact.

Since that time (last weekend).. she has had no phone contact with Coach either from our home phone or her cell phone. I assume she may have another secret cell phone however so I am not at all convinced contact has ended... but I could be wrong.

Her behavior now is extremely cold to me. She won't answer the phone. She won't return my calls (which are very infrequent - no more than one per day). At home she will not acknowledge me or look at me. No hello.. no good bye.. no goodnight. She heads straight to bed after dinner without saying goodnight to the kids. She gets up without saying a word or looking in my direction.

I have no idea what she is doing during the day. She has gone very dark on me. I have not brought up the affair all week and I have made no effort to check on her whereabouts during the day.

I'm trying to figure out what the cold wave means. In the past I have received this treatment but it only lasted a day or two during her period of tying to detatch from OM.

My gut is telling me that she has not ended it... And that she is just trying to give me a dose of what life will be like if OM is out of her life. I really don't know.

I am trying to give her as much space as possible. When I have called I'll leave a message saying "I hope you're doing OK"... I'm not prying into her daily activities and she is certainly not sharing.


Any ideas on how I should deal with her at this time? Any ideas what she is trying to tell be?

I'm not much of a veteran, but maybe she really has broken off contact with him and that's why she's so down in the dumps. That's how my wife acted for a couple of weeks before she started getting over OM.

I don't know..try trust buy verify, be nice to her, show her what a great guy you can be.

My wife has been great since NC (in early May), but sometimes I still wonder even though she has given me no reason to.

It's tough.

I knda agree with flake, maybe she is depressed over the end of the A. Hang in there for the kids, just be the best dad,with a bright outlook. don't follow her round the house etc.

I agree. Dont jump to conclusions and just hang in there for a few days. When and if she is in NC she will go from being depressed to p---ed off on a dime. Give her a chance and be kind for a few days.

It has been a while since I posted… primarily because things have been pretty much in limbo and I wasn’t sure which way things were headed… But now it is becoming more clear..and it’s not looking good.

A quick update: About 5 weeks ago WW and I had a talk about my boundaries which for me were no contact. For 3 weeks she seemed to be living up to her side of the agreement. She was very depressed and clearly in withdrawal. She hardly spoke to me during this period. This period happened to coincide with the three-week break between swimming seasons.. so there was really no reason for her to see him or talk to him. Then.. a few weeks ago the new swimming season started up again as did her contact with the coach under the guise of necessary communication related to the swim team. Very quickly her mood began to change and she was soon back to acting her cheery upbeat self again.

A couple weeks ago I started to remind her about our NC agreement and she got very defensive saying the inappropriate relationship is now over and now she is once again “just friends” with Coach. Red flags shot up everywhere and I pretty much read her the riot act. At this point she refuses to end contact and insists once again that she can be friends with him … Of course I say no way.. She says I am controlling every aspect of her life and she resents it very much. Keep in mind that the only thing I am attempting to control (albeit with no success) is her contact with Coach.

As days go by its getting uglier and uglier and I feel we’re right back to where we started shortly after Dday 1 & 2.

She is much more careful about her communication with Coach now… Never from the home phone and not much from her cell. She’s clearly on to my snooping methods. I suspect she is making calls from pay phones or perhaps she has another cell phone. She is making no effort and is showing no interest whatsoever in our marital recovery. She does insist however that she doesn’t want a divorce (this is the only hopeful sign).

I am waiting for and expecting to find some concrete evidence of a renewed physical affair and when that happens I will implement plan B.. I doubt she will move out.. so I will likely be the one to pack my bags. I am trying to get mentally prepared. The worst part is the kids.. I don’t know what to tell them. Right now they don’t have a clue that there is anything wrong between mom and dad. My daughter is 7 and my son is 9. I love them so much.. They are so innocent and happy.

I really feel plan B is necessary due to my growing resentment and anger over the situation.