Yesterday my h and I were having a discussion about the A. Everytime we do, he seems to make it seem like it effected him more. I asked him, why everytime we talk about the A, it seems like his outlook on how it effected me is that it shouldn't have THAT bad. He told me that it wasn't "cake and ice cream" on his side. Seems like he thinks the A effects the WS' more then the BS. Now I see it the other way around because it was something the BS's did not ask for. The WS' yes have to deal with OW and all that, so that is how he sees he suffers more....does any of this make sense? I'm just curious to see everyone else's outlooks on this topic if it makes sense to anyone lol. (no argument was created during our discussion!! )

My H also seems to think it has affected him more. Sometimes I wonder if it's because they are self centered enough to get involved in an A. so can they only see their pain and think theirs is worse? Or maybe they truly do feel guilty and think they are in more pain because they've "messed up their lives so badly." -H's words.

See that is what I think with my H. I want to be like, you know you did this to me, and I didn't ask for it. When any WS lays down with OW/OM, they KNOW what they are asking for. They KNOW there might be reprecussions.....unlike with the BS, they didn't know. I think the pain is harder for the BS because its a pain brought by someone you trusted...they already knew what they did and had time to think about that and this, but its sprung up on us without warning...they had warning.....with those with oc's, there is a constant reminder (even if you accept oc) of the a.

The question I would ask is how do you weight pain. Put your hand to the stove for 10 seconds or 20 seconds and it still hurts like heck. Smash the other with a hammer and try to figure out which one is hurting the most. Eventually the brain will pick one, but it takes a little while.

The problem is there are two people in pain. One person in pain due to betrayal. The other person in pain as a betrayer. It then becomes the arguement of who hurts the worst, when both are hurting.

Rightfully the one betrayed has the right to say I was hurt the worst, I never saw it coming, I didn't know you could do that to me. But the betrayer's pain is not lessened, the betrayed just has better rights to voice their pain as if to say, how dare you mention your pain. The betrayer has to cower knowing they caused all this pain in the first place. If not for them there would be no pain. But yet there is pain for everyone. Everyone is suffering.....it's the betrayer's fault. Keep pointing a finger at the betrayer, the betrayer is even pointing at himself inflicting a few more wounds of pain. There is no winning, the battle has no victor. Both walk away with scars, with pain, with hurt. If only each other could experience the other for a moment, maybe they would understand.

I see it as not owning up to his mistakes...OK your mistake is haunting you for life it seems. I can understand that on the WS side, with a oc and sometimes stalker like ow or sociopath ow. Trust me i get that BUT come on I as a BS was hit with all of this without a say in the matter, and WS do not forget it was your CHOICE and your DESIRE to bring this kind of person into your life which unfortunately included your spouse and any children you may have at HOME.

The WS may be suffering in the long run from a decision they made, but they did it informed. They had the choice. The Children and BS had no say at all, and were thrown into the situation kicking and screaming, unlike the WS that ran in there or skipping happily at first.

The WS caused thier pain to themselves as well as the family. The BS was HIT by it unbeknownst to them and if given the choice Would have said HELL NO.

If you see your life falling apart in front of your eyes maybe you have a chance to guard yourself , if your blind sided by it like most BS then that is a true tragedy.

I know that my H hurts because of all the pain he has caused to me and everyone else involved...For that I feel for him, but I also think that while both are hurting in different ways the BS has more of a right so to speak to her/his feelings...A WS brings all of this on himself...The same goes for all the OW/OM they knew what they were getting themselves set up for...Usually the BS is blindsided. And that kind of pain is something I don't wish upon anyone

I agree with the "how do you compare pain"... However,

I've seen my H's pain over the years, and while mine has lessened, in many ways his has not. He has to live with the guilt of HIS HUGE mistake, kwim? Anyone with a decent conscience *should* have trouble living with himself after something this big, though I'm ready for mine to live with himself better.

That doesn't mean he shouldn't acknowledge your pain and work like a dog to make amends, though. It should NOT be "I hurt worse than you" to your face.

My 2c,
J
in recovery 7y and glad I stayed

IMO pain is pain, psychic or otherwise. Everyone has a 'right' to their own pain. I don't know how productive it is for people to compare their respective pain as each is different and unique. It would annoy me as well for my wife to try to tell me her pain as the WS is greater than mine but I would try to focus on WHY she was doing so.

As a BS it's hard for me to imagine any greater pain but that doesn't mean that my suffering invalidates any other. In my ideal world my wife and I would acknowlege each other's problems and provide support and shelter for each other. I think that feeling resentful of the other person's perspective would get in the way of doing that. In your position I think I would be grateful for the opportunity to openly discuss the horror I have been through and I would hope I could avoid any consideration of which of us had the bigger burden to carry. Just my two cents.

Change the focus away from the pain to what needs to be rebuilt. So you hit your hand with a hammer and it's painful, or your completely burn the other hand. One is going to take a lot more to heal than the other. I think that is the focus of what you need to discuss. It's the trust that has been broken and it takes a lot to heal. It's the value you had in your husband, it's now damaged and can it be restored? Focus on the healing and not the pain and then you can see the differences.

Thanks everyone! I don't try and "compare" my pain to my h's but I wanted other's opinions on how they looked at the WS vs BS. I do know he hurts, and I'm not trying to validate my pain as being BIG or this or that =o). I just got really confused during our conversation and I thought, hey wait, I didn't ask for the pain I'm going through...like many of you said, they were "informed" and we were blindsided. I guess somedays even though its been of a year, I think I'm doing great. Then other days, its like I'm tumbling head first down a hill without the end in sight. Lately, I've been making a lot of comments about leaving, (even though I will never leave because we have come a long way and are happy). Not sure why I do that....example, my h was joking around this afternoon was he was getting hungry...he said, HEY WOMAN, GET ME SOMETHING TO EAT...now, the term woman has a underlying joke fact in our lives so its was TOTALLY said to be hungry and afterwards he had a huge smile on his finger...but all the sudden, I looked at my wedding rings and said, if that is how you are going to talk to me, I'm leaving...I guess I think if I talk about leaving, he gets the sense that I am not a hurt as he thinks I am and that I would be strong enough to make it on mine own...I know its horrible.....I just imagine him leaving one day (just a fear even though he has given me NO REASON) so I feel if I talk about all that, and he leaves, he won't think I'm all hung up him.....sound crazy? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like you want him to say Please do not leave or talk that way. Which of us wouldnt want that?

I know also you want to appear strong and independent in front of him in case he does do another 180 on ya.

You're 100% right. I want to be reassured all the time for some reason. If not, I feel lost. But like I said, he hasn't given me any reason in the present to make me insecure.

In those moments you mentioned above with the "HEY WOMAN", that was a trigger for you emotionally. It brought up a feeling that made you say "I'm leaving", but instead of saying that you might want to relay the feeling you are having. You said you want to be reassured he is staying. Obviously you are still having insecurity that he could leave whether he has done anything or not. So when he does something that triggers an emotion your defense mechanism kicks in and you react instead of sharing your feeling with him. Next time you feel like saying you are leaving, stop and identify the feeling and then share that feeling.

You women are usually so good at that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The realart lol we women? ok

If we did do as you mentioned above then here is what we would hear.."oh not this again" " how many times must...."

We women are trying not to appear to be a doormat that can be walked all over... my husband calls it my brave talk.

If we want to "discuss" our feeling all the time they get put off. We become and annoyance with this crap or that all the time.... if we throw out that they may lose us..well then they get up our butts...

I can assure you I have gone through this and was the wishy washy cry baby wife that wanted to work it out and discuss everything after a while he pulled away and wanted less and less to by home and discussing everything... well when he moved out and i said forget you do not come to my house without calling first and i had my male friends come over to help me with things around the house and cared less whether he saw the kids , ( he kept hurting thier feelings by saying he was coming to get them and never showing up)

He wanted me back and in a bad way boo hoo he didnt realize what he wanted before he felt me slipping away... and he felt like he may never get me back because of the 180 i did on him.

Sorry about the thread jack but discussing what hurts your feelings is a GREAT thing to do but only so often... if you do it consistently it loses it effectiveness. They have a death ear to what you say if you convey if over and over . lets see if you HAVE to say it hurts my feelings Over and over obviously they DONT CARE or are not getting it.



Now not all men are the same but alot of them are like my husband.

I'm glad someone could see I was being cute with my humor about you women.....it's why I threw in the smiley face. Just to cover myself.

I guess I have been trying to learn to listen to my wife when she expresses feeling words. I catch onto those quicker than I do when she talking without them. For instance if she says, "I feel you don't value me because I asked for you to finish painting the hall for this weekends party." versus, "I asked you to finish painting the hall for this weekends party". Because to her it wasn't about getting the hall finished, it was about how she felt about getting the hall completed for her party. I could say, well I have more important things to do than a hall for the party, but how could I say I have more important things to do than what I place a value on her for? Less chances of an arguement when she has expressed her feeling along with the object of what she wants.

At least it works for me...don't know about the other guys.