Hi,
I found out that my wife of 7 years( together for 14yrs) had a brief affair 2 weeks ago.
She went on a trip with 2 mutual friends ,one male, one female.I have known these people for years, but this trip didn't sit well with me.The guy friend invited one of his buddies, essentially turning the situation into a double date. Of course I had no Idea he was going or wouldn't have approved. The female friend(BF) has always been a little loopy and has relationship problems constantly. My wife and I are always lending her support. she moved in close by and my wife started to hang out with her a lot. I never really trusted my wife around her because she had made advances on me before while intoxicated and she drinks heavily.I informed my wife everytime this occured and she just blew it off or didn't want to deal.Anyway upon return from the trip my wife hooked up with OM twice. I knew both times and just needed evidence before I confronted her. I found some emails that were revealing enough to bring it all out.
I confronted my wife and she tried to lie for about 30 seconds. I informed her that If she did not come clean our marriage was over. she then broke everything down to me.she went and stayed with her sister for a few days while we tried to figure out what we wanted to do. Well we decided that 14 years deserved at least an attempt at recon.My thought was that I caught and stopped the A quickly so there might be hope. There are a couple of things I am really struggling with though (outlined below)I need some advice.

1.I made my wife cut off all contact with the OM, and the friends involved in the trip.My wife didn't want to cut off relations with the BF. she had been confiding in her for 3 months about her unhappiness in our marriage. i was growing distant because we were struggling to concieve and stopped having sex. I knew we had our problems, I just figured that we would get through it like everything else. i tried to talk things out with her but she pushed me away. she began hanging out and drinking with her BF. i knew eventually this would lead to an A. I just felt it and didn't trust the BF or my wifes judgment around her.I explained my reasons for wanting there friendship to end. I am just worried that she will not be able to keep her end of the bargain. They share many mutual friends and she is at all the events we attend. I am firm that she not speak with her ,period or I am gone. Is this the wrong approach??
They have known eachother for years but BF is nothing but trouble and i am the only one that sees that.

2.My wife is 29 and I am 35. We met through her older sister that dated a friend of mine. We didn't start dating until she was 18 (legal reasons).I always knew that she was less mature than I. I thought over time this would change. It didn't. we traveled and partied all over the world. The mutual plan was to finally settle down and have children after our last trip. This is the point when a seemingly perfect marriage started to fall apart. she agreed to the plan but did everything to show me she wasn't ready for parenthood. Drinking at bars and clubs with BF and just generally being immature. They would invite me to hang out with them as to feel included, but i was over that stage of my life. I wanted to settle down.My wife took this as me not wanting to spend time with her and started enjoying the attention from other men at the clubs ect.. I knew she was going to slip and I started to resent her big time for her behavior.My fault is that I shut down instead of confronting her.I feel as if my W maturity level will sabatoge our recon efforts. I love her to death but I am not convinced she can handle recon. I know she will become attracted to the club scene ect.. again. How do I convince her to Grow up??? Is that even possible??

3.I have been doing the meeting needs thing for a week now My W expressed to me what needs were not being met that led to the A.She says she wants to hang out more together and be more affectionate ect.. she says that we stopped flirting like we used to. i agree and I am trying. It just feels forced. I have always been a loving, flirtatious,affectoinate husband. MY W friends always comment on how loving and kind I am towards her and how lucky she is to have that. I get angry now that she feels it wasn't enough. How much do you need, I think to myself.I only widthdrew for a few months, not years and that's her excuse for having Sex with a total stranger. She endangered our lives for a fling because she didn't get attention 24 hours a day from me.She never even came to me and expressed her needs she looked elswhere without ever giving me a chance. I guess you can see my anger here. My question is how do I get past this anger to be able to the needs part?
I am doing it now,but it feels as though i am kissing the [censored] of someone that betrayed me.

Thanks for reading and any advice would be great.

Only if you don't mean it.

I do mean it.I have no room for destructive people in my life and if my wife is going to be a part of my life no contact, period.
thanks

Try what I did that cut out an A enabler. I told my WW to tell me why the BF did not cause or contribute to the A in any way. She started out with some ridiculous reasons that did not even make sense to her once she said them. She then just said that this person was part of her life and how important that girlfriends are in a women's life. That I should not control her to the extent of telling her who she can be friends with or not.

I told her that I did not want to control her but I would not let a threat to our marriage in my house. I told her that the next time that she went to meet the BF that I would put her belongings out in the driveway. As far as I know, she has not seen her. All this pointed out that she was not a BF but an enabler as to her lifestyle. You might try this.

Hi kdh,

Welcome to MB although I am sorry it's for Infidelity.

First off,you need to stop with the ultimatums ok? It may be seen as an attempt to control your WW but it also regularly backfires.You should never say something that you aren't willing to back up 100%.If your WW does talk to the BF,are you REALLY going to leave her? Is that really what you want? How will it make you look if you are not serious and she tells you that she did in fact speak with the BF? Just be careful with your words and boundaries.

Ok.What we usually recommend is that you start off by reading the concepts here and check out our bookstore for some reading material like SAA(Surviving an Affair) and HNHN(His Needs,Her Needs).I also loved "NOT Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.Very informative.

Read up on Plan A and if you did already,then do keep implementing as much as you can.It's not so much about being a doormat in the initial stages(although a prolonged Plan A can suggest that)as it is that you are trying to make changes that will help negotiate the end of the A.In one part of this site,it actually does say to fill needs after the A is over but you can do both,IMO,even though it will be difficult.

You cannot convince your WW to grow up.When you think about that,it's unrealistic.Your WW is her own person making her own(disasterous) decisions right now.If she wants to be a party girl and sleep around with other men then that is her choice but then YOU have a choice too: do you still want to be married to this kind of woman? Yes,it may actually come down to a decision to leave your marriage.Just know that.It's painful but most if us have had to face that possibility.The spouses we used to know usually are profoundly changed after an A and it is very difficult to come back from that.

Unmet needs,are actually a debate around here.Of course this site is based upon that theme as being part of an A occurrence but IMO,I don't believe it is the only cause.There are usually many causes BUT,and A is entirely the problem of the cheater.It's an integrity issue,boundary issue,lack of self esteem issue,lack of protection of the marriage and family,so many possibilities.Many of us here have long gone without certain needs met but we don't make the *decision* to cheat.IMO it is never the answer to anything.Unless you are looking for the best way to hurt your spouse.

So,how are YOU? Have you considered counseling yet,even if alone? Do family members know about the A?

O

I am doing the best I can. You know, the rollercoaster. I have not broken my regular routine as far as activities and that is keeping me sane through all of this.My family(sister and mom) do not know. Most of My w family knows (6 sisters) and are supportive of me. The parents have been left out. I don't think they would be helpfull at all. My mom had a disasterous marriage for 15 years to a drug addict. my sister is 40 and never been married.My w parents are not the best communicators and would probably make matters worse.They will just throw the bible at us or something.
I think you are right on about the possibility of ending it all. I have thought about that a lot.I want my wife to see her immature ways but I can't force it, I know that.It's hard because I remember all the good things about her. We partied together and had a lot of fun traveling around. I thought that we were on the same page as far as lifestyle changes and children.Right now I am being the best husband I can and if that is not enough for her than It's out of my hands.
As far as ultimatums. I feel I have to set boundries. she has been out of control for a few months now.She was never this way before, so boundries I feel are mandatory. I am seroius about the contact issue with BF. She is destructive and I don't want that in my life,period.Even if my future does not include my w. And yes I will leave.I am trying to change and be 35 not 21. If my W can't change with me then it's over.I am not trying to control her. i am just attempting to eliminate what is bad for our relationship. I clearly laid this out to my w. "I am not trying to hurt or control you ,but this is what is best for US".If she respects what we worked on for 14 years she will honor this. I may feel differently later on but for now contact has to cease for recon to be possible,period.I hear what you are saying but I am firm on this.
Counseling is something I have considered for myself.I haven't asked my w yet,but I am sure she would agree to it.
As for the needs. I have aknowledged my part in what led to the A. I know I have been neglectful at times. I am paying much more attention now. It's just hard when I have resentment for what she did. I have needs also so she has to start meeting me half way at some point.
Thanks for the advice it is much appreciated.

Hi again,

I would like to caution you to be sure not to make any major decisions about staying or going for some time.The "general" rule of thumb we suggest is 6 months.Why? Because in the beginning,emotions are running full steam and it's not the best time to think about the marriage on those terms.Also,once things have settled down more,usually reason comes into play and the situation can be looked at in more depth.Some people have wanted to up and leave right away after hearing this kind of devastating news but many/most other's still do want a chance to save their marriage.You are right to conclude that you can only change yourself and not other's.That is a common theme here.

Boundaries are important and if you truly see no contact with the BF as a boundary,then that is your decision.But many of us see boundaries more as a way of life than with one particular person in matters such as these.For example,your WW could get rid of the BF for good but what are you left with: inappropriate behavior,lack of protection of the marriage,maybe even drunken behavior/alcohol problems that are more serious within the WS than anyone can be on them.Does this make sense? Your WW still has issues that have to be dealt with that will surface with anyone,not just a messed up friend.Your WW has to wake up to the possibility that SHE is the one hurting this marriage,by her choices.Anyway, I do understand your need to have this influencial person away from you and your WW.

Lastly for now,do keep in mind: even though you may have met needs before the A and even if you meet needs now,the fundamental issues in your WW will still be there no matter what and she has to look at that.It is why I am not a big proponent of the unmet needs being the problem.In my case,when my WH and I did the EN questionnaire,it was obvious that my WH thought I was doing a very good job meeting needs.I only scored low in one area: affection.

Easily cured if I had known what he wanted but he shut down and withdrew for some time before the A and afterward,it became clear,again,that the problem was with my WH: boredom in his life,no longer interested in family as a priority,wanted other sexual experiences with other women(his view),didn't appreciate his wife or family anymore,fell weak to fantasy and being in another country with a willing and most available homewrecker who didn't care that he was already married with children,etc.Maybe even an early MLC,who knows(does dye his hair blonde,go figure).

Well,this is a long journey so hold on tight and educate yourself ok? Read up on all the concepts here and get some literature.We are here to help so stick with us.

O

I hear you, the issues are deep within her.What you are saying about the BF makes sense. However the BF is an immature partying drunk, and I see my W becoming like her. I know that she won't come out of it hanging around with BF.
I also hear you about the EN. Our problems could have been cured easily as well with communication. That's what is so frustrating about this whole thing.Choosing an affair with a stranger over simple communication?? It just baffles me.I also have the feeling that I have for the most part done a good job as a husband. I don't abuse, I pay as much attention as I can, I give affection. It's just not enough right now.What should I do if not try to meet her EN?? should I just go on behaving the same way I was and hope she snaps out of it?
I will definetly give it 6 months of recon. I don't know if I have the emotional space for more than that though.

I would suggest you read up on Plan A,if not done already,and what you should be doing.Ultimately,what will need to take place,is a choice on your WW's part to either re-enter the marriage and give it a chance or you go into Plan B and take yourself out of the equation and see what happens.The situation as it is cannot go on eternally,at least not for you so she will have to address you,the problems and the marriage at some point or risk losing you for good.

So,what you do for the next,say,3 months or whatever time frame you can manage(not longer than 3 months though IMO) is to be respectful,don't explode on your WW with anger,tell her how her behavior is hurting you and that you want her to stop seeing OM and BF,that you want to address the reasons the A happened and that you want to have a plan to make things better and save your marriage.You can fill her needs after the A has ended or try to present an environment that she would want to come back to now versus being elsewhere.You can do all these things but also present a man who is still going to live his life with or without her in it.That means you(definitely) still take care of yourself,see friends,family,go out,try to include your WW but not if it's about the bar scene and drinking all night,etc.

Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction and that's why many wonder why our WS's couldn't just come to us and tell us that something wasn't right or "Honey,I really feel this way" or "I really think we need to talk".Anything but not adultery.From my perception being here almost 2 years in October and listening to other's,it seems to me that a WS, at some point,makes the unilateral decision that things are so bad in their lives,of which may not be full reality,that seeking the attention of or being with another person of the opposite sex is not only a purely selfish decision but they fool themselves into feeling entitled for things being "so bad" at home and they just can't talk to their spouse anymore,they aren't understood anymore and they convince themselves that the answer to all their problems lies elsehwere,with another person.

We had a discussion long ago about this topic and it's one that I felt strongly about:in the year 2005,you cannot know that spending time with another person of the opposite sex and revealing intimate details about ones life will not affect/threaten you and your marriage.Afterall,this is one of the ways in which we regularly begin new relationships with men/women to form more intimate relationships.So,it goes without saying that that is a CHOICE,to spend time with a person not your spouse in an inappropriate way.It's why most A's are begun in the workplace.And it's why I agree with Harley that it's a cruel act of self *indulgence*.

I'm taking off for the night.Hang in there~

O