Had a good conversation with WH tonight. Talked about how he has had NC since May 27 of this year. We both talked a bit about our concerns. Started opening up.

See I don't want to just keep the peace, but I am hurt.

I am so hurt and mad.

I don't know what to say to him or how to say it put I am HURT. He abandoned me two months after our second child was born. He lied to me, he hid the photographs of us as a family. He cut me out of his life on one hand and pretended with everyone else that things were OK.

What am I supposed to do through all of this HURT and ANGER. I can't plan A, cause I did that. I am too tired.

I have been violated and discarded and now, he may pick me up again after 2 years. And I'm not supposed to love bust, maybe I shouldn't cry in front of him.

I loved seeing him open up to me tonight, but it reminded me so much of what I have been prohibited to share in. Him. I missed him. I loved him. and I see little bits of him, but he slept with another woman and let her into his heart, and closed me out.

Why be with someone who shuts you out of their heart? He is concern about his lack of physical desire?

I don't know what to do. I don't know how to say it. Man, do I need help. He's home and I just want to push him out that door.

Hi, Loy.

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I don't know what to do. I don't know how to say it. Man, do I need help. He's home and I just want to push him out that door.
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Two years is a long time.

Have you decided that you want him back?

Do you have a plan for recovery that includes requirements for his return?

STD testing?

Counseling?

His living apart for a few months while you date?

What are YOUR plans, not yours and his, YOURS?

All the best,
Gimble

I have not decided if I want him back.

He came back home in March under false pretences so he is home.

We've done Retrouvaille
We are in some form of counseling

My plans? I don't know what I'm going to do, but I don't have to hope that he'll love me anymore. I need to give that up.

I don't feel comfortable sleeping in the same bed. Too much pressure and I need my rest.

A plan for recovery? WHy doesn't he ever have any ideas about a plan?

We don't have internet at home so I am at Kinkos. Its just me and two workers because the college students are home for the summer.

Why would I want a marraige with a spouse who will sacrifice our family for his own benefit?

No one says you must or even should take him back.

For right now ... you should consider him like a used car .... "as is" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

This is how I approached a similar dilemma when I was reluctant to take WH back after his A with his friend's wife (disgusting) ....

I gave it 6 months .... and at that time I reviewed my position .... then gave it another 6 months .... and so on .... limited time trial (and H was aware this was my plan)

He worked his tush off to get me past each 6 months to earn his way into the next six months.... that was more than 9 years ago .... I am fully committed, as is my beloved.

So .... in your case .... if you cannot commit to a lifetime (yet) .... don't. If your H doesn't like that, then ask yourself if he has your best interest at heart.

How do you treat someone whom you are so disgusted with? How do I smile at him when I know that he actively sought a lifestyle that caused so much damage and distruction to our family.

How do I lie in bed next to someone who so gives himself permission to sleep with another person for more than a year and a half?

How do I let myself be comforted by someone who has so completely disregarded my safety, my feelings, and my love?

I don't know how to look at him, talk to him, or parent with him.

He said that it was my love that brought him back... he said that love is sometimes doing what you don't feel like.

1. I need him to change his cell phone number and give me access to his cell phone records.

2. I need complete openness about his time and whereabouts

3. I need him to register and attend a Mankind Project weekend or Wild At Heart Boot Camp and participate in follow up meetings for no less than 1 year.

He has 72 hours to decide and if he cannot fulfill these needs than I will need him to leave the house.

I am sorry for where you are at in your relationship. I do not think that after 1 1/2 years I could still feel love for my WH. I am struggling with 6 weeks.

I will pray for you. At some point you have to move on.

Lifted Up

You create a safety net for yourself. Emotionally, spiritually and even physically if necessary.

Do not expect more from yourself than mere tolerence of him and common politeness toward him right now.

I can do that. Its nice to have things that I can do.

Politely delivered the following message to WH:

1. I need him to change his cell phone number and give me access to his cell phone records.

2. I need complete openness about his time and whereabouts

3. I need him to register and attend a Mankind Project weekend or Wild At Heart Boot Camp and participate in follow up meetings for no less than 1 year.

He has 72 hours to decide and if he cannot fulfill these needs than I will need him to leave the house.

---
We'll have dinner with his mother tonight.

I like Pep’s suggestion, a sequence of trial periods. That is pretty much what I am doing. In session three right now.

Loy, just a thought, since you attended Retrouvaille, are you still dialoguing each week? How about some dialogue topics, using some of your own relevant words:

1. How do we deal with my feelings of anger?

I loved seeing you open up to me last night. Thank you.

But, it reminded me so much of what I have been prohibited to share with you. I missed you. I loved you. I see little bits of you, but you slept with another woman and let her into your heart, and closed me out.

I feel you came back home in March under false pretences.

I am so hurt and mad. I don't know what to say or how to say it, but I am hurting.

You abandoned me two months after our second child was born. You lied to me; you hid photographs of us as a family. You cut me out of your life on one hand and pretended with everyone else that things were OK.

2. Why should I be with someone who shuts me out of his heart?

I feel violated and discarded, and now you just pick me up again after 2 years?

I don't know what I'm going to do, but I don't fell you will love me anymore. I need to give that up.

I don't feel comfortable sleeping in the same bed. Too much pressure and I need my rest.

3. What are your/my ideas about a plan for recovery?

And for a problem resolution: His concern about his lack of physical desire.

Remember, feelings are neither right nor wrong, they just are. (I heard that so much I began to hate it with a passion almost as much as, do you want to be right or married.)

Dialoguing is a big reason I am still with FWW. It was her safe place to open up a little. Without some of the insights I received though our dialogues I would have not renewed my M lease after the first six months.

With prayers,

I feel so good about my marriage lease stipulations, and if H can't deliver than I know a lot more about him than I did before.

Aplh,

Great work breaking down some of the issues I mentioned, and thank you for reminding me how to discuss them effectively. WH doesn't like dialogue. I thought it was a useful tool, but then again, he was still in the affair during the post sessions.

I was going over the Retro book last night and it has so much good content. I wonder how much more we would've gotten out of it if WH hadn't still had the pickle in the cookie jar.

Yeah, I know what you mean about the A still active while in RV. They ask each of you to swear any OP is out of the picture when you sign up, but most WS lie through their teeth about it.

It’s a real disappointment to realise they were still acting through all those emotional outpourings.

FWW had contact barely an hour before I picked her up for the weekend and intermittent contact all through the post sessions, I now know.

But at the same time, I believe the sessions and the dialogues did slowly get through to her. Our communication has improved radically through RV techniques.

Funny about communication, though. We had no problems at all until she met dirt bag OM. Only after then did we have a failure to communicate, no matter how hard I tried. Because her A lasted 10 years she totally forgot everything that came before.

With prayers

Dear Alph. 10 years?

When you mentioned that most WS lie through their teeth about OP being out of the picture, I actually thought, "What you mean My WH isn't the only one who lied through Retrovaille?" I actually laughed.

Why was I surprized? It's the same drama played out in an absurd number of marraiges until one person gets sick of it and stops playing.

How long does it take the WS to realize that lies of self preservation are destructive for everyone?

The lies are amazing aren’t they?

Pitman cites a study in Private Lies in which BS indicate by a wide margin that the lies hurt worse than the sex.

FWW lied throughout her A about almost everything. She still lies in many things, even when the truth will serve her better. She lived a secret double life for so long all she seems to know is how to lie. It comes automatically in any subject without her having to even think about it.

Yes, 10 years.

It continued even after I found out the first time in late 1998. We went to MC and IC and FWW lied to all of them to keep the A going. She cried real tears, looking me in the eyes saying how much she knew she hurt me and she would never do it again. All while continuing right on with it. She never even slowed down. She just went farther underground with even more lies. She even lied to OM who said when I confronted him after D-Day 2 that he would have ended it immediately if he had known I knew – major argument for exposure, huh.

Hi, Loy.

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He has 72 hours to decide and if he cannot fulfill these needs than I will need him to leave the house.
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That is a good plan. You delivered it well.

It is very important that you deliver your considerations via a very sober and serious demeanor. No anger, no seething undercurrents. Basic respect.

Pep gave you very good advice. I really like seeing you face this head on.

You should be proud of yourself, Loy.

All the best,
Gimble

I must have a strong capacity to compartmentalize because when I’m around WH most of the time, I just relax and have a nice time. Not sure if this sends a mixed message to WH. Regardless, it will not change my consequences.

As soon as I’m away, I focus on his grotesque betrayal and lies. Years of deception, lies, and abandonment is abuse. An affair is abuse.

Ending an affair… They know what to do, but they don’t want to stop the thrill ride they’re on. This is not love, this is self-gratification at the expense of others. I must have you, you make me feel so good. “You make me feel so good” is not about love it’s about low self esteem.

Love gives and love lets go. Love heals. Love sacrifices. Love is intolerant of abuse.

So, I am letting go. I will not tolerate my husband abusing me or our marriage. It is his choice and the other woman’s choice to use another person to make themselves feel good. It is their choice to destroy a family and marriage for their own benefit. I can live without him, because love lets people feel the consequences of their actions.

Trying to prepare for my 72 hour deadline.

If he does not meet my requirements, what words do I use to tell him to leave?

If he does meet my requirements, how long should I give him to complete them? I think another 72 hours is fine.

I suspect that he may want to negotiate changing his cell phone number, because he has had it for 6 years and random business contacts have it.

I am going to take steps to change our home phone number. It’s going to be unlisted and certain numbers will be blocked. This is something I need to feel comfortable living in my own home.

As I look at the affair, again, I see it is impossible for someone in an affair to love their spouse.

Considering that at least one definition of love is that the security and well-being of your partner is as significant to you as your own security and well-being, then during an affair, the WS behaves in a way that reflects they do not love their spouse.

WoW ... I am impressed by your strength!

I am feeling very good. Knowing where I stand and what I'm going to do about it is such a great feeling.

On Friday, when he either meets my demands or does not - his choice - I will let him know that I am not able to commit to an abusive and negligent relationship. All I can do right now is give our marriage another 6 months and review the situation then.

I will not promise him a lifetime of watching him grossly compromise his integrity.

There is nothing to be afraid anymore of because my statements are all true and I stand by them 100%. I also changed our home phone number today. That goes into effect Friday.