OK, so sharing is a big deal. And I feel a little bit better because WH just called and I asked him about when the cellphone thing and Mankind Project stuff. He will call T-mobile tomorrow and will stop by Kinkos between gigs to look up mankind dates on the internet.

He shared Sunday that he was obsessiong all day about the OW. Wondering how she was doing, how she was rationalizing their break-up. We talked just about their relationship intentionally. It made things easier because I just focused on him and not "what about me" stuff.

OW justified their relaitonship because of love, "love triumps over all." The love card.

Its kind of like the peace card. If you make peace your most important value, your willing to keep the peace at all costs. Just look at how Stalin kept the peace within his country. Peace isn't a bad value, but how much are you willing to compromise to maintain it?

We talked about how love can't triump over everything, and WH said that OW didn't understand that he couldn't deny who he was and what he beleived in, for love.

One thing I thought was intersting, is that WH mentioned that for the OW, she might've felt pride or an ego boost at having taken a prize from someone else. He thought that for her, a part of the lure was she recieved a boost from winning what someone else valued (him). WH is still foggy, but after 52 days of NC, he said that on his own. Not bad?

If you love your husband the way I think you do ... you will make yourself a safe place for your husband to be.

Loving him right now is a huge challenge ... keep an eye on your "taker" ... making sure your taker does not run away with sarcasm and "what about me" thinking ... this is about the marriage right now.

You can do it.

I want to be a safe place for my WH, but he continues not to be a safe place for me.

Last night WH had rehersal until 10 p.m. and he was going to come home after he went to Kinkos to check out Mankind Project stuff.

I called him at midnight leaving a message expressing worry. He checked his voicemail and did not call me because he was embarrased. I called him again at 12:40 a.m. and he was on his way home. Some people of the cast went out to celerabte a birthday and Wh did not go with them. He instead went alone to a bar for “one drink, no, two.” He went to the bar, Independent, next to Kinkos.

He said he did call home but was afraid of waking the girls.

I told him that I thought he wouldn’t be coming home last night. He then looked sympathetic and said, is that what you think when I’m late? Is that what you thought last week? (When he had a meeting that he forgot to tell me about but has been confirmed).

I feel very vulnerable. His cell phone record is clean from last night but maybe he wised up and is using a calling card or phone booth. The credit card has somethings on it that are pending and will not show up for 3-5 days.

When he came home he did share information about the Mankind Project that he had found and talked about which weekend he could attend.

This doesn’t make sense. His words do not add up with his actions. He says he wants to rebuild but he is embarrased to call his wife and doesn’t? He goes to a bar “alone”? This sounds like one of his A excuses.

What could have happened... He called her from a phone booth and they met up at her apartment and he used her internet.

OR

He could also be depressed and thoughtless...

I feel so used. I feel that he does not respect my fears, concerns, and safety. How was he accountable for his time last night? How did he build trust?

How do I talk about this with him? He is pushing and testing my boundaries and I need to protect them without being a LB queen.

When it comes up ... ask him for his help

"I am asking for your help. I still feel so vulnerable. This is what I am asking you to do for me .... (state specifics)... Does this work for you too?"

Loy,


I have a lot of similar feelings. Fear, lots of suspicion, little trust. Feelings of being used, discounted and ignored both specifically and in general. An overriding feeling or inferiority with respect to her every view, or should I say perceptions, of OM and I.

FWW was definitely in love with OM. She spent 10 years sneaking around with him. So every time she is unreachable I immediately think contact has resumed. I always think I am second choice, the consolation prize.

How do I face living like this for the rest of my life? That is the primary source of all my feelings.

I would like to talk to FWW about these feelings. But she almost never wants to. She shuts down. She just will not engage. Says she is busy. She wants to know why I am not over it yet. She says later....

I'm sure every BS has heard all the WS excuses and reasons. But I am getting nowhere in this.

Very frustrating. Very nerve wracking, actually.

With prayers,

Good advice. Talked to WH. He asked how I was and I said that I was still unsettled from last night. I told him how much I’ve valued our conversations and evenings. They mean a lot to me.

Told him how I felt vulnerable last night and said how helpful it has been when he’s gone out to let me hear who was there and verify his whereabouts. I asked him if maybe there was a paper trail of what he did from last night? He thinks he’s already thrown the receipt away and he’s not sure what card he used. He said he will start keeping a paper trail for me and I’ll check when the stuff from last night is not longer pending on the accounts. It’s good to know he sometime uses another card.

Hopefully we are now entering a learning curve for transforming from the singles lifestyle back to marriage, but I am skittish.

How did I start to loose respect for my boundaries? Why was it so hard to stand up for myself?

I ramble....

Aphelion,

Its not that you would like to talk about these feelings, you have to. Is what your wife wants more important than what you want?

Can you come up with a dialogue question on this?

Can you find a CORE group to attend?

Your wife is shutting down, so how do you respond? What have you tried?

MC suggested (to me only, because I have been giving her updates the last two weeks) a post nupital agreement as trust builder, a way for WH to prove his commitment to rebuilding.

WH just called.

WH: I was thinking about you and how sweet and caring you are and how much you helped me last night. I don’t want to take you for granted and I want to do a better job of appreciating you and showing you how much it means to me. I don’t want to be a stick in the mud."

ME: Thank you, I really appreciate you telling me this. It means a lot. (I can't really remember too much of what I said in response, compliments from WH make me blush so that I don't know what I say).

WH: "If we fail we’ll have to go down in a bigger blaze."

Loy .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

62 days since NC (and I'll add the traditional BS disclaimer)"as far as I know."

WH has been very busy working several different jobs and I have been disappointed that we haven't been able to have our MC sessions this month.

WH is stalling on changing his cell phone, however since I have daily internet access to his cell records, I do feel comforted that his cell is no longer used to enable the A. However my concern is to put greater distance between them. Because WH has been working 14 hour days and we had to buy a new car, ect. I have not been as firm about changing the cell. Why does he say he'll do it and then put it off? His intent to change it is not good enough. I feel disrespected, but maybe I am disrespecting myself. Am I understanding or weak?

Also, changing all of this cell stuff will be a lot of money and we just bought a car (2000 Saturn wagon) so I have been a little comfortable with a little delay (until the next pay period). How can I feel disrespected and yet tolerant at the same time? Is this not really a boundary?

WH and I had lunch today; it was something of a surprise. Very nice meal (although it was not responsible because our budget it tight).

I went to a ballgame last night with my daughters and a girlfriend. I got hit on by a guy who is going through rehab. (I thought he was hitting on my girlfriend for a while because he sat next to her). Most people stop hitting on me when they discover I am married but rehab man asked me if my H made me happy (which made me laugh because WH has not done a lot to encourage happiness in the past two years). He then did the classy thing and used the line, "you deserve to be happy and with someone who makes you happy."

I wanted to say, "didn't pursuing something that made you happy and feel good bring you to rehab"? Instead I told him that I am married to which he replied, "can't you have friends?" To which I should've said, "I am not the droid you are looking for. You can go about your business. Move along."

I think instead I just said "have a nice time at the game."

WH and I discussed this conversation and he said something about how to quickly end conversations with "insidious people". I then told him about the more subtle lines that people interpret as "truth" rather than a come-on, what does he do about smooth compliments from women? Does he encourage it or stop it? He said that doesn't work on him. I said, "It has."

WH has said that OW didn't want to be a mistress, they didn't mean for it to happen. But she was a mistress for a year and a half. She did hit on him and he did follow suit. As ARK said on recent post, it is and always has been the ACTIONS of humans that define us.

So how am I defining myself today? Today I was a hard worker although not as financially responsible as I need to become.

I will call WH and see how he is doing. I think he likes frequent calls.

Looking for pain today and found it. Sought out the OW's picture on the internet. I see the photo and think, "she was sleeping with my husband when that was taken."

I've been on TOW today, to see what the ladies on endings struggle with. It seems that much of their justification is that MM is a jerk. Sometimes they look at themselves, but not a lot. MM is a jerk and the BW is manipulative.


I think I am trying to understand and I am rebuilding their A in my head because I have been waiting to ask my questions.

I must focus not on what feels good, (this dim affirmation that I am worthless) but on whats right. What is right is being honest and not conflict avoiding.

What is honest.

I am dissapointed and comforted all the time by WH. It is very confusing.

I am turned around a bit and am confused. My taker says, WH is a hour and 1/2 away this week working on a theater production. He gets done with rehersal at 8 p.m., why can't he come home during the week at least once? It would mean so much to me.

Then I think, if I want to see him, I have a sitter lined up for Wednesday night. Why not make the drive down to see him instead?

Then I think, [censored] should woo me back to him. Don't go. Enjoy the time away from him. Make him crawl back to you. The more you give the more he takes.

Then I think, this is a great way to show that I am willing to negotiate.

Then I think, he doesn't have rehersal the next day until 4 p.m. He can come to ME.

As MB says: A caring relationship is not one where a husband sacrifices for his wife or a wife sacrifices for her husband. Instead, a caring relationship is one where a husband and wife care so much about each other that they will not let the other sacrifice for them -- they will not allow the ones they love to suffer so that they can be happy. They negotiate to achieve win-win solutions to all their problems, so that they are both happy with the way they live together.

It isn't a great attempt at achieving a win-win solution, since its me giving up 3 hours of my time to just spend 2 hours with him. I would love that kind of dedication, but it seems that WHs may look down on this type of jesture as "needy" or something.

Stay off the OW boards.

Yes.

thank you

it's too ugly for words

and it pollutes your goodness to read such garbage

I think your right in guarding yourself from garbage. I had not thought of it like that, but protecting your goodness is a great way to thrive.

I have spent (wasted ?) time going there years ago ... and it was not productive ... just depressingly sad and dumb

Camel TOW