Hi all, i have missed posting here, but it has been good for my H so that is ok. i still lurk a lot. i'm here today to give a bit of an update and ask for some encouragement at well.

Truthfully, it is the latter that I am really looking for.

For those wondering, my H and i did discuss my desire to post this, he does understand my need for support sometimes, so he says it is up to me.

i'm being selfish. i'm asking you guys for some support, especially those that know my story the most, but i am not in a position to give anything back to the board at this time. i'm hoping this is ok.

Anyway...

we are closing in on 16 months since the first d-day, and 9 months since the complete d-day. Considering the info disclosed during the complete d-day, the 16 months probably does not really count for anything. so we are just about 9 months into this. but i'm not really sure what to call "this".

i'm not really sure if we are in recovery or just survival.

and i guess that is the core of my need for support right now. to find hope that this is not how our relationship will stay. together but kept at an arm's length away emotionally.

sort of feels similiar to so much of our marriage.

H is being better about not being critical and about not telling me my feelings are wrong. he will listen to me when i need to talk, he does not really say anything back. when i ask him what he is thinking, he says he does not know. and i very sincerely understand that he really does not know. my fear is he will never figure it out and will be ok with keeping us where we are right now.

he does not want to wear his wedding ring, i feel very sad about that (i very much want to buy him a new one, i always disliked how inexpensive the original one was anyway). i suppose i feel sad more about the fact that he wants to keep me at arm's length which is what i conclude he means by not wearing a ring. he has said it no longer means anything.

he absolutely does not want to see anyone in my family. that is very hard on me too. i could understand my one sister. i have hardest time regarding my mom. she is getting older, in my heart i would like to feel at peace with my mom (my childhood was pretty disfunctional). it never happened with my dad before he died and i now regret that. i try to talk to my mom on the phone more often at least. finding peace in my heart in respects to my mom would be difficult even with H's support, trying to do it while H dislikes her now so much is very stressfull. i feel like i am in a lose-lose situation.

i'm not sure what info to say. we are together, for the most part we are very cordial to each other. he is happy for short periods of time but he is tired a lot, i fear he is suffering from depression but i don't know what to do to help. this scenerio gives me a better insight to what it must of been like for him when my dad died. i know he knew i was upset (not sure if he would of used the word depressed but that was certainly the case), and i can understand how hard it is for a spouse to know what to do to help.

i know he is happy to be able to keep the family in tact for the kids sake. i am happy to be able to do that for the kids too, and also for his sake.

he still does not know what he wants for himself. he does not see how to get past this. i guess that means he does not see "us" recovering even if the family is kept in tact.

i don't know what else to report. i mostly feel so confused. i have not been to IC since school has been out. my IC is not very available during the summer. i have a call into her, we are supposed to talk on the phone to talk about where to go from here. i get the feeling she wants IC to end. maybe i have done all the work i can with her? i feel so far from ok though. but at the same time, i don't know how to answer her question, where do i want to go from here.

it is not really appropriate to talk about marriage issues too much since this is not MC and H is not there. H still does not want to do MC, nor has he read any books.

i would like to grow spiritually more. i have so many questions in that area.

so, what do you all think. are there recovered BHs out there than can relate to how my H is doing and give me reason to hope progress will eventually occur?

any thoughts would be appreciated.

thanks and MB love to you all.

Hi FL, first of all I missed you! I respect you not posting because your H though. I don't know that I can answer the question about R as I am wondering the same thing if we are in "recovery" or not.

Tell me what you are doing to grow spiritually. Church, bible study, books ? Have you found yourself an accountability partner through your church or circle of friends? Have you read the book Every Woman's Battle ?

I am sure JL and others more knowledgeable than I will be responding. {{FL}}

FL

I dunno.

Me an' Squid by common consent are doing great yet I am building in a deliberate distance between us. I can never depend on her again for anything exclusively.

I am basing our recovered marriage on the 'mutuality' model where we commit to each other but do not invest that which we cannot survive without. Well I don't anyway.

This isn't something I like, or Squid likes but it is necessary I deem for my protection.

Maybe your BH is doing the same without the study ?

You have to realise that we BHs are not the same people after betrayal.

We may recover to become better, funnier, more lovable people , or sadder, unfunnier less lovable or loving people but we are never the same again.

Part of me is dead and will ever remain so. The rest is rewired to compensate.

I feel like my first true love died: raped and killed by Squid and OM in a motel room a year ago this week.

I grieved that death, found a new woman - a more worldly woman who I love very much but who will never replace my first love.

It is a more realistic and mature relationship than my first. And no doubt healthier but the loss of innocence makes me feel just like everybody else, not SPECIAL like we were before.

Maybe that will change with time.

In case it doesn't I am getting used to making the best of this. And in truth, life is good.

But I fear my first love will always overshadow my current love. I hope she doesn't get jealous....

All blessings FL.

well congrats bob.... you made me laugh in the other thread with your T2A explanation and now you have made me bawl. that is so incredible sad and to hear YOU say that, of all people, a BH that is so happy to still be married and feels so much love for his FBW.

i don't understand bob, i really dont.

FF, hi, i'll respond more later, i need to collect myself a bit now.

bob, just so you know... i really appreciated your post and your willingness to share. just because it was hard to read does not at all make it less appreciated. you very nice to share.

Hi FL,

Well, at 9 months and 16 months of very difficult times, I think you are actually in a very good situation. I know this sounds sooooo optimistic, but consider the situation and what he has had to deal with.

I would guess right now he is NOT emotionally strong enough to deal with his family situation and then deal with YOUR family as well. But, I would guess he will listen to you and discuss with you your ideas for dealing with YOUR family.

Further, while it seems to be baby steps it seems your H is actually changing and coming to some accomodations with you and the situation, so focus on that.

You said
Keep working on recovery, remember he did it for two years with no support from you. Hang in there for the man, and you are probably right he is depressed. So make sure you get him out for exercise and do it with him when you can.


Yup, it is hard so now that you know that hang in there on this topic as well.


Have you ever told him this? Have you told him how much you respect him and his willingness to endure what he has? Have you ever told him that in your eyes he is your hero? He might need to hear those words more often than you realize.


Fine, then tell him what I tell people that don't vote. Don't worry about it I will vote for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> You recover, you love the man, you take him to bed and MAKE him please you, and you make him let you please him. You smile, you joke, and YOU enjoy this marriage and you know what, he may well decide to vote as well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know this sounds like a lot of work for you, but what I envision is actually ENJOYING this, that you smile, accept him as he is, and you make the marriage better as you can and not worry so much about the rest. So the idea is NOT to WORK on the marriage but bring your happiness to it. You are happy that it exists right? You are happy that the family is together right? You are happy to see him smile sometimes right? ENJOY those things, open the windows abit and air this thing out.

FL, if your H had a terminal illness, you might not like it, but you would enjoy each day you could come from work and see him yet another day. I think you need to take this approach now...one day at a time. Savior everything you can , one day at a time. It has only been 9 months. This marriage had many issues any way. Your children are growing and getting into interesting parts of their lives. ENJOY those times with him, put your hand in his and ENJOY those times and gradually I think you will see him changing, just as it took you awhile to change.

Please recall that it took more than 9 months for you to change and see things clearly. Have patience YOUNG LADY <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, it seems you are doing better than you think.

Oh, and if he asks, show him this post.

God Bless,

JL

well JL, your optomistic view is exactly what i expected/needed and wanted from you, but reading it has made me cry possible even more than bob's post!!!

when i sort out all the emotions these two posts have now stirred up (and not all of them are bad, i think some of these tears may be tears of some sort of relief too), i'll be back.

FL,

Man oh man, did Mr. Pure hit the nail so squarely on the head this time.

My Dday was 05/31/04, so we are a couple months past the year anniversary. Geeze and her OM had been in a PA for 2 years with him flying into town every month or so to hook up for a sexual holiday at a local Best Western by the airport. (She had to leave by 4:30 to beat me home from work.)

They were also talking 2 to 3 hours on the phone and email.

I discovered it and NC was instantly activated. She loved me and not him, and wanted to be with me. (had the A run it's course?)

And recovery has been occurring ever since. Everything is fine and as bOb says "I'm getting used to making the best of this."

But I am not the same, nor is my life, my dreams of the future, and of course my feelings toward Geeze. I sometimes feel like I am just going through the motions, saying the things meant to be said and acting the part.

Inside I am damaged. I hope to someday recover.

Might I add that bOb Pure can sure turn a phrase that cuts directly to the heart. Not since Noodle's prose have I read more clarity of meaning. (It seemed it was me, and my feelings, you were talking about.)

Please keep it up, Mate!

k

HI, FLT2m –

I was just thinking about you today! I’ve read that recovery can take from 3 to 5 years, so 9 months is really only a drop in the bucket. It gets discouraging along the way, I know, but try to take deep breaths, love your H the best you can, take care of yourself, and hang in there.

If your H needs more time, he needs more time, but don’t despair. If you’re committed to staying in your M, keep on keeping on. That’s all you can do. You can care about him, and even worry about him, but his depression is something that he has to deal with himself, his own way. (Obviously, if you ever think he is a danger to himself, you can get emergency help, but hopefully it won’t come to that.)

Keep concentrating on being the best person, wife, and mother that you can be, and keep praying for wisdom and direction. It’s good to hear from you.

God bless,
Rose

i don't understand bob, i really dont.

FL, firstly I am sorry I made you cry <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> . It was not my intention. I see now rereading my post it looks sad when in fact I intended only to articulate my acceptence of the unchangeable sad parts of the situation.

I do love Squid, very much ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But the only way I have found where I CAN love her this much is in a way that does not place too much of a burden upon her.

Before her A , Squid carried my hopes and fears : my future and past all upon her shoulders.

Thats a heavy load for a person to carry for a lifetime. Maybe my heavy dependency on her broke her back, and her A was rebellion against it?

In any case I cannot spend my life in fear of he shattering me again by a betrayal. The less of my essence that she carries, the less I live in fear of being let down again.

We are both getting used to this new way of being together, though it is uninstinctive for us. And I meant what I said : our life IS good ! We laugh, we intimate, we make love, we spend LOTS of time together, we are a great parenting team once again. Our life is greater than I ever dreamed it would be again just a few months ago. Better, in detail, than it has been for several years BEFORE her affair with my new family-friendly job and work ethic, and Squid's less self-indulgent independent behaviour. Its all good.

But I can imagine how a different BS might exercise their 'singularity' in a way that precluded some of the fun, mutual, loving manifestations of recovery and concentrated instead on protective seperation. Thats why I posted that your H may feel that way.

FL, Squiddy and me are doing great ! A year ago this week she was stealing my kids college money to take to OM in a $30 motel to bang him and offer him our kids money to use as deposit on an apartment for them. I was working 60 hours per week all over Europe.

Now she is a wholly repentant, loving spouse, great mom and wonderful person. I have assumed the reins of Chritian headship of our family and while that yoke was hard at the start it is working out wonderfully for us. Our kids have never been happier.

But our great recovery does not remove the collateral damage of Squids affair. We have to cope with its effects, not ignore or deny them.

Maybe I used over-emotive language describing our new relationship, but I reread it now and am satisfied with it. Those words unburdended me, so they are my hearts words.

I think Squid would be hurt if she read them, and she has enough hurt right now ( she is VERY guilty and ashamed at her A, and her mom is dying).

Maybe sharing those words together will help us move to a new plane of relationship at some time.

But not just yet.

I realise now that I never put any deliberation into our marriage before Squids affair. I ASSUMED it would work. It didn't.

My every actions re: my marriage since d-day has been deliberate. Its a new thing.

Maybe your BH needs to be more deliberate now? He does seem to be inhibiting his own ( and your) happiness and I can;t imagine it is deliberate.

Sorry I upset you FL.

Bear in mind I'm only a year past d-day Long term recoverees report EVEN BETTER relationships, and maybe the wounds of the affair are less raw with more time to heal.

All blessings

“I’m here today to give a bit of an update and ask for some encouragement at well. Truthfully, it is the latter that I am really looking for.”

Encouragement from a BH, huh? That’s often very hard to come by, you know. Lets see what I can scrape together from various bare cupboards here and there.

First though, perhaps some context is in order, both your situation and mine.

I read back through much of your story. You and my FWW have certain things in common. For example, your multiple A’s covered a majority of your M, and my W’s LTA the same. Both of you have worked hard to improve yourselves and show us BH you are changing, if not actually changed. You perhaps are putting more effort into your recovery than my W, if your posts are any measure. So that is encouraging to me, at least.

Both of you seem to be take-charge, Type A, personalities. Both of you seem rather impatient to have all this behind you. Just the other day FWW complained it was about time we got past this. (I can never quite grasp this attitude, as a matter of fact. She commits adultery for most of our 20 year M and I am supposed to be over it in 16 months?)

FL, this does not fly with me and I suspect is doesn’t fly with your BH either. We are not dealing with a ONS here. This was not a quick mistake from which either of you picked yourself up and said that will never happen again. This was a sordid duplicitous lifestyle both you and FWW lived for a long, long time. This was sex with virtual strangers, for crying out loud. This definitely takes a while, a long while for me, and I suspect your BH, to digest.

I bet he is wondering just who you really are, as I am wondering who my FWW really is. She certainly is not the person I thought she was, that’s for sure. And I am quite sure I would never have married the person she became during her LTA. I bet your BH feels the same.

So who is she becoming? I am willing to give her some time to show me who she is becoming now. But I also need this same time to see if I like the results. I get to choose now. And I choose to take my time at it.

I see a lot of me in what you write about your H, with the exception I am into IC, MC and MB. This has given me a perspective of this sordid mess your BH may not have, but it has not actually solved any of the big issues resulting from her LTA.

I am pretty much living from week to week right now. It started out day to day, so I guess things are improving, huh. Basically, I am doing what Pep recounted of her recovery. I am taking a renewable six, or so, month lease out on my M at a time. I am waiting and watching my FWW.

I do not trust her. Sorry, but that is the truth. I still do not trust her. And I probably never will ever again. I am undecided if I want to live like this for the rest of my life so I am simply taking it a chewable bite at a time. I suspect your BH is doing the same if unconsciously.

Also, it is all so confusing. With all the IC, MC and MB help I have I am still confused as to what it all means. I am sure your BH is also confused. It is very difficult to make big decisions when we can’t figure things out completely. If the main reason BH is staying is the children, and I have to admit that is the case with me right now, just take it and work with it.

In fact, I’m not sure exactly what it is you want. All your top ENs met right now? Well, domestic and financial support are both in your top ten, right? A 20% initial condition is pretty good in most iterative algorithms.

Don’t be in such a hurry. Meet his EN’s as best you can for as long as you can and see what happens. At some level the only fair thing you can do is give him at least as much time as you had in your A’s to digest the situation you created, don’t you think?

“I’m not really sure if we are in recovery or just survival.”

Oh, definitely survival, at least for your BH. You have to understand that is all the typical BH does for quite a while, survive. I often think that’s mostly all it is for maybe a couple of years after D-Day.

Nine months is a drop in the bucket when in survival mode. And I agree your prior seven months do not count for anything. Not even a little. In fact, they are a big fat negative. It was all a false recovery as far as BH is concerned. It was all just more lies and deceit as far as BH is concerned

“I guess that is the core of my need for support right now. To find hope that this is not how our relationship will stay. Together but kept at an arm's length away emotionally. Sort of feels similar to so much of our marriage.”

Arms length is a good way to put it. That is what I am doing, as I described above. I bet that is what your BH is doing, too. And if it feels similar to much of your marriage that is also a consequence of who you were, and how you acted, during your As. From the moment FWW met her OM we were at arms length. Ten years of arms length, no matter what I did to try and increase intimacy, and I didn’t know why. At least you and FWW knew why!

“H is being better about not being critical and about not telling me my feelings are wrong.”

I think this is important. No LBs are critical. So at least you have that from him. Again, what is it that you want at such an early state?

“When I ask him what he is thinking, he says he does not know.”

Exactly! I do not know most of the time either. Sorry, it’s the truth. Neither he nor I know what we are thinking, yet. And it’s been 16 months for me.

“My fear is he will never figure it out and will be ok with keeping us where we are right now.”

Nah. He will eventually figure it out. It may take years, however. Then he will know. It may not be what you wanted, but he will know eventually.

“He does not want to wear his wedding ring.”

I no longer wear mine either. Seems to me to sort of cheapen marriage for everyone else at this time. It didn’t mean anything to W for most of our M. So why should I wear mine now? It would be hypocritical, at some level, for me to wear it now.

“He absolutely does not want to see anyone in my family. That is very hard on me too. I could understand my one sister. I have hardest time regarding my mom. She is getting older, in my heart I would like to feel at peace with my mom (my childhood was pretty dysfunctional).”

Why is this an issue? You should see your mom any time you want, with H or without. I no longer will have anything to do with W’s family. They did not try to talk any sense into W nor say anything negative about her A at all. I want nothing to do with those enablers. But I encourage W to see them all she wants. BTW, FWW’s childhood was also very dysfunctional.

“He still does not know what he wants for himself. He does not see how to get past this. I guess that means he does not see us recovering even if the family is kept intact.”

Again, nah. He is just overwhelmed, as I am. I do not want to take a step in this minefield that I do not absolutely have to.

“I would like to grow spiritually more. I have so many questions in that area.”

Pray. Pray every morning and every night, and in between when you can. Pray as a family as much as possible. Your heavenly father will not hand you a stone. Marriage is a covenant with God as an active participant. If you open your heart to God He will make his presence known to you. This may be difficult for you at first since during all the years of your As you hardened your heart to Him. Ask and you will receive. All things are possible with God.

Now, after all that, I do feel optimistic for all of us. If I could somehow chart the velocity vector of my marriage I believe it would be pointing towards a good place. I give our recovery a solid B, so far. And I know, from the professional help and the good people here on MB I am pretty close to where I should be for the magnitude of W’s LTA.

I think I better stop now. I’ve been told before that my posts are too verbose.

But take heart. You seem to be going in the right direction and are in a pretty normal recovery, if such a thing as a normal recovery exists. It’s a hugely bigger problem to your BH and me than it is to you and my W, is all.

With prayers,

FL - a quick thought I had.

I have only been able to function properly because I forgave Squid.

I carried a sack of rocks in my heart for AGES until I forgave her.

I just realised that NOTHING could ever pay for the insult of her affair, so I wouldn't try. I broke the sowrd or revenge, not sheathed it.

And I was RELEASED to love and recover THANK GOD!.

Your H still seems to have those rocks in his heart. If only he could see how pointless that is.

Fogiveness is a gift I gave myself. I pray he sees that too.

morning all. i have lots i want to share but i unfortunately also have to get to lab.

bob, you are a sweetheart, you really are. no apologies are needed because of my tears. my response to your post is mine to own and it really is ok that tears was part of that response. i really appreciate your sharing. i'll be back to post more.

Aphelion, first, thank you for your response and for your sharing. i don't believe i have seen much of your story before. i do hope you check back with this thread. i have things i want to share and i would like your honest responses back again. thanks.

HI ROSE!!! i've missed you and i think of you often. how you coming along with your reading <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Krusht - i better not leave you out. thanks for your response. i hope in time your pain subsides.

FL,

A clarification - your BH and I are actually closer in timeline than I indicated in my earlier post.

It was 11 months ago that FWW recanted a bunch of huge lies about her LTA. These were major lies and deceptions she carried right through D-Day 2 up to then. So my most recent D-Day is pretty close to your BH's.

Everything in between was just living with more smoke and mirrors.

Are there more lies and omissions? Things big and small I will never know? More shoes waiting to drop? Probably. I definitely am continuously tensed up for more, despite what she is saying now.

MC told her point blank the more times we go through dribbling disclosure the less likely I will want to recover and the longer it takes to put out the effort if I do. She is correct.

Your BH may be consciously, or unconsciously, in this same place.

FL,

I have a question for you...which will hopefully give you an insight to what us BSs feel.

As we lay in bed last night, Geeze was speaking of how the Lexipro was helping because she doesn't have the anxiety that she use to have like even before her mother got sick. (2 years ago)

I asked if the anxiety was caused by the A (started 3 years ago)

She said NO!! And then said.."You know, I almost completely forget about him/it (OM/A) and then you bring it up again" (sigh, grumble, grumble.) "I'm sorry!" She said

We never speak about it. Probably have not talked about it for 4 months.

I lay there thinking how can you "forget" about it?? Shoot, I think about it every hour of every day.

How can she "forget" about her "soul mate" that knew her better than she knew herself??

My question to you...DOES THIS MAKE SENSE??

As a BS I awake with it and carry it with me thoughout my day activities. It's not bothersome until I scratch it. Then it floods my brain with the same old [email]cr@p.[/email]

FL, it's not actual pain anymore but more of a heartsick feeling, like bOb's bag of rocks.

k

EDITED TO ADD: Your BH is surely toting his bag of rocks. Maybe is too is distancing himself from you so his vital essence will not be pierced again.

Krusht, if I may jump in here...I have a hard time believing that your FWW forgets about the OM/A. She may choose not to think about it and likely does not carry it with her in the way you do but believe me it is there haunting her psyche.

I am both the FWW and the BW so I carry the load of my own stupidity which haunts me almost daily and the pain of my H's betrayal which is with me nearly every moment.

Faithful,

I too have a hard time believing it. I should have pursued the discussion. I am a no good, lilly livered, conflict avoider.

Not to mention a no good thread-jacker!! SORRY

Thanks,

k

Hi all, very busy but productive day at work, i finally have some time to try to compose this response, although i doubt i have the time and focus now to get it all done.

i'll give it my best go at it though.

i'll start with Krusht's question... first, it is probably worth mentioning that i was not in an emotional affair in any way shape or form during the time period of 2001-2003, the person, and then persons <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> were not my soul mate(s). they did not know me at all. i'm not sure if your W saying that said the OM was her soul mate (i'm assuming she directly said this to you as opposed to you making an assumption that she thought it) is why you have the question you have or not.

in anycase, no, i have not forgotten any of this mess, i wish i could for at least short times. i think about it non-stop, i have to work very hard at not obsessing because that only makes the days go by slower and the anxioty worse. but i don't actually think about any of the OM, i think about the impact all of this has had on us.

it seems to me like i think about it more than my H does but i cannot say for sure if that is the case or not because he has not told me. he probably thinks about it more than i realize. but he does not seem to want to talk about it. maybe there really is nothing more to be said.

i think about the pain that we are both in. somedays, i confess, i focus more on my pain (i think that was part of my problem yesterday). i honestly try to focus more on his pain.

i think about how badly i want to fix everything!!!!!

but in reality, i cannot really fix everything, time has a big part in it too. so does my H. I often pray that God helps him recover, that He shows him how to heal. i know time alone will not do it and sometimes i wonder if my H thinks time alone will do it. and that kinda worries me. but i work hard at telling myself i must trust him and trust that he does in fact know what he needs in order to heal and move forward. as well as trust God, that He will be with my H and will find a way to guide him through it all. and i pray that God can show me how I can help.

i think i strayed from your question... does it make sense that your W says she never thinks about OM/A. i think FF is very correct in saying I doubt your W has forgotten any of it, that perhaps she is wanting it to be gone. and that is certainly understandable, don't ya think.

then again, i don't really want to forget all of it because i want to remember all the lessons i have learned because of it.

but even more, i want to move forward and build a stronger marriage. and i fear we are not, maybe my vision is faulty.

which leads me to my reaction to JL's response...

JL, your post was wonderfull, really. somewhere between printing this page and walking to the car, as i re-read my post and then yours i thought, wow, my post sounds kinda selfish here. it lists the things that are hard on me. maybe that is not a terrible thing, afterall, i was posting an update on me. but i really liked how your posts always nudge me to re-focus my vision.

i still have so more i want to share but it will have to wait till tommorow as i have a dr. appt i cannot be late for.

p.s I didn't mind the thread jacking at all!!

p.s.s. stop being a CA!!! it's really not good for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

FL,

Geeze met OM on internet chatroom and the first year it was an EA, then turned PA for the next 2 years. So she was totally emotionally hooked, and she did say to me that he knew her better than she knew herself.

During the PA she started IC by herself telling me she was talking to therapist about her relationship with her dad, mom being sick, etc... but was really talking about the PA and what to do!! So even then the guilt was overwhelming. The OM was 10 years younger, slim, deep voice, smooth talker, etc. and really wanted Geeze to come to Phoenix and live with him. (Yeah right, like it was 120 degrees there yesterday!!)

I was sooooo clueless the whole time. THE WHOLE DAMN TIME!!

Anyway I digress...

""he probably thinks about it more than i realize. but he does not seem to want to talk about it. maybe there really is nothing more to be said.""

I find it strange that he doesn't wish to discuss. We did not discuss it enough, as far as I am concerned, but her mom was dying of cancer, then my son got hit by the car in October, we buried her mom 13 Jan and and 15 Jan we went off to CO to take care of son. (just moved back, everything looks good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />)

So much stress with her mother dying, she said "I don't want to talk about it anymore!! If you have anymore questions go ask OM!" So at this time we also stopped MC..why go if she wasn't going to talk about it? So there has been very little discussion on this subject since September of 2004.

I am so sorry..I am rambling and threadjacking again!! Too much coffee, maybe.

My original point being..I think communication will help the healing...at least it will let you and him know what the other is thinking. If he is not crazy about speaking to you about it, how about him writing his feelings and thoughts down. You could email or actually write letters to each other.

I hope the above made some sense. I must log off now and try to do some work.

Everything is going to be OK!!

k

warning: i have enough time now to post all that i've been thinking about (i.e. this might get long).

aphelion, thanks again for your post. that made me smile <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> thanks.

i do feel the need to defend myself just a little bit here. i am curious of your thoughts when i say this.

First, just to make sure you know my story correctly.
In march 1986, while engaged, i had a short affair with a fellow student (i was in my last year of college). i did have feelings for this person, we had known each other a long time, he was studing the same major as me. it ended abruptly one day without us even talking about it. i learned thru another person that he started dating someone else, i knew my path of marriage to my H was the path i wanted to be on. i never said anything to him, he never said anything to me.

We married in Sept 1986. had our first child in nov 1989.

In early 1991, with my H and daughter out of town, i went out with a bunch of co-workers. i drank too much (i was not a big drinker so trying to be like the others was very bad) i was not able to drive home, fell asleep/passed out a co-worker's couch, another co-worker decided he was too drunk to drive too and stayed the night as well. at some point during the night, that co-worker took advantage of the situation. i honestly do not remember what happened exactly. when i woke up i was in shock, he was professing how much he has always felt for me. we had worked together for years, i knew we both respected each others abilities, i really didn't know he felt that way about me. if i had slapped him, stormed out and told my husband everything right then and there, the incident would of more been a case of rape as opposed to an A. instead, i said nothing and just left quickly. after the weekend, when i got back in the office, he continued to tell me how much he cared about me and the shameful part of it was, i liked how that felt, to be told how awesome i was. that was not really happening too much at home. we ended up being together physically a few times after that. i cannot say i ever felt i was in love with him, but i really did like the attention. i didn't even like the sex, but i figured that was the cost of accepting the attention. he started talking about divorcing and getting married. which freaked me out. i loved my H very much!! i might not have been the best wife. i knew my H was not very happy with me a lot of the times, but i really did love him and wanted my life to be with him. i broke it off. i planned a cruise with my H and shortly after that got pregnant, the co-worker had himself tranferred to another state and moved away.

The baby was born pre-mature and died. my H and I grew closer as we grieved, closer than i think we ever were even while dating. the pastor said how something like this either breaks a marriage or brings them closer. i felt grateful that it brought us closer. i felt so sad that our beautiful daughter was gone. i wrote a letter that i had buired with her that stated how i swore i would honor her life by hanging on the closeness. I buried the past with her. i know now how wrong i was to do that.

JL, early on i felt the early As were not worth thinking about, they were less important and you had the opposite opinion. i now see how right you were. it was the early As they were a true indication of some serious issues in me!

I planned a wedding while having an A!!!! how screwed up is that!!! and to be able to think i could just bury the other A and pretend it didn't happen.

9 years go by, our marriage is a mess, my H is so distant, i am so lonley. i crash and burn while my dad dies, i take off 3 months from work, one month spent in mental health program and then i'm sent back at work like nothing happened. what happened between july 2001 and nov 2003 i view more as a woman self-destructing in a very dangerous way for me as well as for my H. I sincerly thank God I was never hurt, considering the bad situations i put myself in a few times.

the reason i recalled all this is because i am curious, would you still call that being unfaithful the majority of my marriage. i don't know why, but that stmt bothers me. and all of that was really hard to read.

but then again, i do believe in calling a spade a spade at this point and since i did in fact keep the information from my H even though i was faithful for 9 yrs, maybe those 9 years don't count? right now they mean something to me. and therefore i figure they should mean something to my H. am i wrong? Our marriage from Sept 1986 - July 2001, that is 15 yrs. i know from july 2001 until i confessed in oct of 2004, my behavior was horrible, worse than horrible. but for 15yrs of our marriage, even with the A, i really did try to be a good wife. i swear i did!!!

obviously, i still have some things that haunts me some.
it used to haunt me more. not so much anymore because i really have let go of the past, for my own sake. its the only way for me to be able to recover and be a person worth being married to.

you are right about me being a take charge, type A personality, but i don't mean to say i want this all behind us, i really don't. maybe i come off that way though. i just want to move forward and not be stagnant. maybe i am wrong when i start to think we are not moving forward. there are lots of eveidence that shows we are indeed moving forward.

i;ve rambled on quite a bit and i think i'm losing my focus on what i wanted to say to you.

regarding: again, considering i was not continueing any A behavior during those 7 months, i would hope it is not a big fat negative. no, i didn't confess everything on that first day. but i did get into IC and i did work my butt off for 7 months to finally be able to face everything and confess the rest. i understand that because he learned so much new information, it puts us back, but i don't think it is fair to not see that for 7 months i was working hard on my issues and the proof that i was truely making headway is that I did in fact confess everything else. in fact, the fact that i confessed at all in the first place should show him something!

you are very right to point that out. he really is trying. i don't know why i lose sight of that and let my fear take over, all i end up is anxious and then less able to help him.
that is one of my favorite quotes, i have said it many times. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

no disrespect here meant, but don't be so sure about that above stmt. this has been an extremely huge problem for me. don't discount how much of a problem it is for your W. I know they are different so probably not worth trying to compare. what good does that do anyway. i remember RIF saying once, when he was able to truely see how much pain his W was in because of all of this too, it helped him take a step closer to her.

in my case, absolutely NOT. that fact brings me alot of comfort, mostly because i know it is a fact! i wish there was some way my BH could know that too. i hope there are no more shoes waiting to drop on you.

thank you for explaining how you are feeling. it does help to have it written out like that. my H and I don't talk much about it and that leaves me feeling clueless. i am feeling less clueless again. so thanks. your cupboards were not that empty after all.

i will take your advice...

bob, thanks for explaining more, it has helped. i do hope that in time the sadness that still exists in you will become less and less. but i see what you mean. it will never go away completely.

i am very glad you were able to forgive, you are right, it is a gift that you really give yourself. i hope my H can eventually learn this. I know it took me a very long time to honestly say i have forgiven him for all things he has done that has hurt me. that was actually my turning point, in Nov of 2003, that was when i hit bottom. i remember it very clearly. everything was so out of control and i broke down and begged God to take away my anger. It was a very dramatic thing that then occured. The answer i was given was to forgive. "if you want to release your anger, then forgive". and right then and there i did. i finally accepted an apology that my H tried to give to me back in either late 2001 or early 2002. it is a very freeing thing to do. and i literally told my H that I finally accepted his apology, he recalled the night he tried giving the apology too.

Here is something important to point out to myself now. it took me over 1.5 years to truely accept his apology for his role in the marriage falling apart. kinda puts perspective on how he has only had 9 months so far....

anyway, that was Nov 2003, in Dec 2003 i found this place, in march 2004 i made my first confession, got in IC and 7 months later, in oct 2004, finally made a complete confession. it all seems like such a life time ago.

I continue to forgive my H everyday. i got this from a book (don't ask which one, i've read parts of so many), it is the practice of taking every hurt to God immediately, offering it up to Him and then forgiving. whether or not the person doing the hurting has asked for forgiveness or even knows you are hurt. what i have learned is by forgiving you can then release the hurt. with the hurt out of the way, you can better communicate to the person how thier actions impacted you and work out the issue. of course i'm not perfect at executing this strategy yet but at least i know the strategy exists!!

it took a while but i have also truely forgiven myself now too. that is something that has occured slowly over time and is directly connected to the pride i allow myself to feel based on who i am today. sometimes i backslide and try to go back to beating myself up but then i remember that not forgiving oneself only ends up taking away from your ability to love others. i've learned that not fogiving yourself is actually a selfish thing to do.

Faith - you asked what i was doing to grow spiritually. i do not have an accountability partner, i suppose my IC is the closest thing to one. I have been reading several books and, this might sounds odd to include here, but i have switched to an all christian music channel and that helps me stay focused. it is a great station, it's called k-love and it can be found in many areas. Mostly I try to spend time everyday to pray or read or quietly listen for guidance. i actually have not been to church in quite a long time. and yet, i feel i am closer to knowing God and feeling His love than i ever have been. I don't know exactly how to word what i am trying to say. God is now part of my everyday life, that was never the case before. Funny, now that i write that out i realize exactly what has occured here... i think i actually can say i have a personal relationship with God now. i say "funny" cuz i didn't really realize it until i sat down and tried to answer your question.

this post is turning into quite a "wow" moment for me.

i've always struggled with what people meant by a "personal relationship". of course i have also always struggled with personally accepting God's love for me. I've felt inherently wrong and bad on the inside for my entire life and therefore outside of God's love. I know that is why i have always worked so hard to "earn" love and why not feeling love (from my H in specific) has been so hard on me. Not feeling love felt life-threatening to me. i think anyone reading this that can relate, knows exactly what i mean. i doubt there are any words that can adaquetly explain it to those that have never felt that way.

when i was finally able to really look at what occured between my brother and i when i was in jr. high and talk about it in IC, she read something to me from a book on sexual abuse, which i then took and read more. and it was like a light was turned on and finally, i no longer felt inheriently wrong. i finally understood the root cause of that feeling and with that understanding, the feeling then went away. that occured last fall, about a month before i posted my "sins i cannot confess" thread which was really my way of preparing for d-day 2.

this thread is becoming quite a review of my recovery path. Which makes me realize, I have really been in "recovery" mode since Nov 2003. this stuff really does take time, doesn't it!!

rose - i just wanted to thank you again for responding to this thread and for all the past words of encouragement you have offered me. love to you.

krusht - i am very sorry for your pain, i appaulde you for being your wife's and family's hero. any BS that takes on the task of sticking this out is a hero in my eye.

any WS that finds their way back home and decides to take on the task of making ammends is a hero too.

for it is when both S's can look at each other for who they are today, accept each other's flaws and virtues, have gratitude firmly planted in their hearts and a commitment to not only say i love you but to ACT out the i love you, those are the truely blessed couples. my goal is to do my part of that equation.

i know i will continue to get discouraged sometimes. I've been trying to have strategies in place for when those times come. This time it was you all again and for that you have my deepest thanks.

Out of respect for my H, I'm going to go dark here again. I'm sure I'll still lurk and post again occasionally, hopefully just to report in with good news!

and someday i still hope to be able to come back and give back by helping others. but first things first and that is to do all i can to help my H heal.

I cannot say i am extremly disciplined in my prayer time. (I am working on it!!) however, often in my prayers, you all are included, some by name, the rest collectively. May God's peace be with you all.