b0b,

Both DD12 and DD5 know that daddy is living with the OW. DD12 knows far more about their relationship than DD5, obviously, but I don't think she knows that OW is the reason he left.

DD12 is very sweet and accomodating. She doesn't want to cause any upset, wants everyone to be happy. This is why she doesn't mind meeting OW - she wants to make her daddy happy.

DD5 is just curious about OW. She asks WH all the time what she looks like etc. She draws pictures for her.

They do want to meet her, it's just a fact. I wish it wasn't. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Ashley, SH was referring to the fact that I like to be on my own a lot. This was a big LB for WH. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

WAT!

How you doing?

Did you have a nice time?

Alph.

Hi Alph - vacation was fabulous. Was traveling this week on business.

but, NO CHANGING THE SUBJECT!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No exposure news?

WAT

Sort of.

I know from MIL that OW and WH were hauled up in front of the principal. No more than that. Something was done, but I'm not sure what! No sackings, anyway. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I haven't heard anything about OW's parents and the letter. It's as I thought - WH and OW are keeping all the bad things from me so I don't get the 'satisfaction' of seeing them suffer. Shame. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm in pre-Plan B. Any advice? I am going to let the kids meet OW.

Alph.

If you think this is actually in the children's best interest I must state that I disagree it is in their best interest.

Having gotten THAT out of the way ...

If you insist you are going to allow your children to participate in adultery ... please PLEASE only do this with YOU, their wonderful MOTHER in the room.

"The girls can meet OW in my presence ONLY."

This will disallow any hanky-panky nonsense OW may try to pull.

She is a stranger to you Alph. Are you in the habit of allowing your girls to go off with strangers unaccompanied?

There is a big difference between "wanting to make dad happy" and "wanting to meet OW".

Could it be that DD12 wants to meet OW because she fears her father's rejection? After all, he rejected her Mom because Mom didnt like OW! She has already lost a big part of her dad and is afraid of losing him all together?

To me, this indicates some pretty serious emotional damage going on for your daughter. Do you have her in counseling?

And let me point out that our children want all kinds of things that are bad for them.

As a parent, its your job to protect them, because they are children and can NOT make good decisions for themselves.

BR ... well said.

If protecting her kids from a predatory adultress is NOT a boundary that Alph is willing to make ... I lose hope here. That's the God's honest truth.

Hi Alphin

If memory serves me correctly this is a catholic school. I presume cos you use the title principal he is not a catholic priest (think the title would have been president if they were a priest).

This is a really poor reaction. What about informing the chairperson of the board of goverors, this will be a priest, and at the very least the local parish priest will be on the board of goverors.

Sorry I should have butted in with my knowledge of the Catholic schools along time ago.

FreeAllAngels

I recommend you not pursue any further exposure with OW's parents unless they contact you or something else comes up that compels more contact with them. They likely know enough.

Regarding school/church exposure, what can I say that isn't cynical? Probably nothing. I suggest you keep at it up the ladder as a personal vent even if it ends up going the same route as decades (centuries?) of priest pedophilia. You get the peace of mind that you tried.

I'm with Pep and BR regarding the kids meeting OW - since you have no legal agreement that allows it (unless I've forgotten something). Kids interacting with OPs is about the most gut-wrenching aspect of infidelity. Sickening. Until there is a legal instrument in place that permits it - i.e., prevents you from preventing it - stand your ground and do not agree to it. Even if/when your H can legally do it while the kids are in his custody, do not agree to it and voice your abhorence to your H. I make it a point to mention to my XW (even after they've been married now for almost 3 years) that I morally oppose any support/caregiving/parenting by OM to my son whenever our communication comes close to the topic.

That said, there could be positive aspects to your kids interacting with OW if/when it happens. They may hate each other. If not mutual rejection, there could be one sided rejection. Do not cultivate this with your kids. The older one will detect your manipulation. Just voice your position that you would prefer it not be happening.

I'm undecided on the scheme that you allow interaction if you can be present. Part of me says that this tends to legitimize the standing of OW and thus should be avoided. On the other hand, such a scenario could have a huge impact on OW if she has a shred of integrity left. Keep in mind that to her, you have been portrayed as a bad mother, a nutball, a bad wife, a drug addict, an axe murderer - whatever - and to see you face to face as NOT any of these with your children hanging on to you could be very powerful to all.

WAT

WAT

I am againt allowing children to participate in adultery

my suggestion to BE THERE HERSELF was only if Alph does not change her mind about this ... making a horrible situation less horrible by STANDING BY her child when said child comes face-to-face with a predator OW ... disgusing.

It is FAR better to put your foot down and say "NO" ... in my opinion

Couldn't agree more, Pep.

WAT
--------------
OW's Bed & Breakfast - Home of the Ho-Made Pies.

Yep,

Ends never justify the means. Even though allowing the children contact with OW may in some cases put a damper on the affair, it is never justified because it is harmful to the children.

Alphin,

I was able to get my husband to sign a visitation agreement that said he would not bring the children into contact with the OW until some months after our divorce.

Just because the law ALLOWS it, does not mean you two can't enter into a lawfully binding agreement to disallow it.

My attorney was very impressed that I had put our agreement in writing and had it signed. It was proof of what kind of visitation was in place before the divorce proceedings and could have been used as "precedence" to establish visitation rules afterwards.

My rule was, without the signed aggreement, he could see our kids ANY time in our home.

After he signed agreement, he could see kids ANYTIME outside our home, with reasonable notice - and with a set schedule of every other weekend.

I made the argument to my husband that our children just needed time. I had them in counseling, and I told him that our counselor agreed that it was hurting our kids to meet OW.

Now of course, theres alot of fogged husbands that wouldn't care. Mine did.

He didnt agree right away, but eventually he did.

I don't want this to happen.

But I don't want to have to go to court in the middle of Plan B and fight about it with WH.

There is NO CHANCE that the decision would go in my favour - OW is a teacher, they are not going to think that she is an inappropriate person. Yes, she is having an affair with a married man, but the UK is a very secular society, and wouldn't have much sympathy if they thought that non-contact with the OW was preventing their dad from seeing his kids.

I have, however, made another appointment with my solicitor. I will see if anything else can be done.

Alph.

I think this is worth fighting for ...

edit to add:

to roll over on this before a fight ... I find indefensible, sorry.

I haven't rolled over, Pep.

As I said, I am seeing my solicitor to see what can be done.

Alph.

OK ... sorry , this is an area I am very passionate about ... to the point of bullying you ... sorry

Please don't equate "secular" with "permissive" or "dishonest" or "disingenuous" or "do what makes you feel good". I bet folks in UK aren't much different than those in the U.S. or other societies that tend NOT to poo poo adultery unless it directly affects them. This is not related to either "secularism" or having faith. After all, we are talking about a church school in your case. So far, secularism is WAY out in front of that crowd in the "rightness" world.

You're doing good Alph. Your thoughts of divorce are normal and justified. I still believe the affair will crumble sooner rather than later and Plan B may be right for you.

WAT

Sometimes I need 'bullying', Pep. I really appreciate that you care about my kids. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

WAT.

I am, as you are probably aware, a secularist myself. I didn't mean that we are a more 'permissive' group of people. Perhaps I should have said that the UK is a more 'permissive' society, rather than a secular one.

Alph.

How would non-contact with OW prevent him from seeing his kids? Are they joined at the hip????

You are stuck in HIS mindset.

You are not stopping them seeing their DAD but that does NOT have to include with OW until such time as you are divorced.

IMVHO

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />