Heck yes you did good. I thought that's why you were telling us, to show us just how good you did.

You are better than you think sometimes, now lets figure out why you don't know that.

SS

I hope this is not off topic. This just seems like the appropriate thread to post it on. Pep called my attention to this program today.

It reinforces the point I was trying to make about *listening*.

Nurturing Intimacy in Your Marriage.
ooops...edited because it is no longer today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Listen to today's broadcast. It is EXCELLENT!

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sorry, Mimi, I just replied without reading your other post.

<stroke, stoke> You done good. Why do you feel like you need stroking? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Mimi,

Well let me see... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

All you did was avoid an arguement, calm your H down, listen to his concerns, and discussed them with him instead of...

Yeah, I think you have got it young lady. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I will also bet that your stress meter did not peg. That you walked away feeling pretty good about working with your H on this, and sort of cocky (I CAN do this.) Not bad, you clearly are a youngster because you are learning awfully fast. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Mimi, do you see what we were saying about power, and clearly about Susan's suggestion that even listening is power? You done good girl.

God Bless,

JL

Hello to you all:

I've been out here in the REAL WORLD wielding the POWER..with wonderful results and ego-building for myself...

I realized that I "DID GOOD" with H. I wanted to share my good feelings with you guys and wanted to HEAR that you were listening.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Moving right along...

JL you stated this:



Can you explain this more fully? I'm trying to more clearly understand what has changed in regards to POWER in our relationship.

I once thought that a large part of the attraction to the FOW was her LACK OF SELFHOOD and TOTAL ABDICATION to him. HE HAD ALL OF THE POWER. He has stressed to me, though, more than once: "THAT BECAME A PROBLEM, A REAL PROBLEM"....I'm pretty sure he learned that she was being phony. He often calls what she did and said "BS". I haven't felt that I needed further elucidation on this, wanting to focus OUR R with each other...

I know that WE have had previous longstanding issues with the POWER STRUGGLES. I think that was about me needing to PROVE I was right and to FIGHT for POWER... I know that I am different in that regard. I now calmly listen and accept his POV without feeling the need to be right or to change his thinking. My thought now is: He has his viewpoint and I have mine....

I'll stop the discussion with this for now...

Again, I'm trying to identify what has changed here....

((( Mimi )))

I feel ya girl
... your flower is really opening up to the mature luscious bloom ... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

captivating woman <--- Mimi

She's our (MB) poster-child, isn't she. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Mimi, you are doing fantastic. Relax and bask in the glow.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Mimi,

Most men would NEVER want to be married to a "Stepford wife". You cannot respect someone who's only goal is to please you. It sounds wonderful and all of that, but most men respect women who respect them. Fawning all over a guy does not indicate respect, it indicates dependence, and that is not nearly as attractive is it.

What you have changed is you are respecting his point of view...you listen to it. YOu don't fight it, you don't correct, you don't necessarily even agree with it, but you respect him by listening to it and deciding internally whether you agree with it or not. Don't you see POWER is not about fighting, it is about winning.

You are beginning to see that by not fighting him, you are winning him over, you are winning your battle for a better marriage, and lo and behold you are enjoying it more.

This issue of POWER is a very very subtle thing, but I think you are getting it. What you are learning is that you can listen to him, discuss something with him, agree or disagree with him and YOU ARE STILL YOU. You have lost nothing because you have the power to decide for yourself what you agree with and don't agree with.

The next step is to discover you have the power to negotiate with him, thus the POJA becomes a useful tool in your marriage...finally. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

All of these interactions that I quoted have changed you, and because you have changed he has changed. He changed to recover the marriage and because he has changed you have changed. Isn't that kewl, as Pep would say, you both have the ability and POWER to change the other, by simply addressing yourself no fights required.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

WOW WHEEE!!!

This is no longer a lightbulb!! This is FIREWORKS!!

JL you said:



I think it must have been a zillion times or more that my H has said to me: "The main thing I have wanted (translated into-what I needed and didn't get prior to the A) was your RESPECT! " Yep..exactly that very word.

Just like you said JL, what did I used to do when he expressed a POV that I did not agree with---- FIGHT!

DING..DING...DING... I GOT IT. THE FIGHT IS GONE!! I'm not sure that this has been a conscious decision on my part. Now I am able to identify what has occurred. Like, last evening, now I understand the cause for his RELIEF. He has expected that I will FIGHT with him when he expresses a POV that he knows is different than mine...

As an aside, the STEPFORD OW probably started to FIGHT with him during PLAN B... I mean really FIGHT... I understand that she may have LOST it a couple of times. Of course, she did. She is/was a heavy drinker... That's in the past but an interesting aside...

SUSAN/PEP:

Speaking as CAPTIVATING MIMI, designated MB POSTER CHILD FOR THE DAY, the attire for LATE SUMMER is CORAL.. that is a mixture of orange and pink....Pink sunglasses and pocketbook are allowed, not a perfect match, but BLENDING is acceptable....

I am wearing my "CORAL OUTFIT" today, receiving lots of notice and complements, and I am not shrinking back into the corner or being humble. I am expressing my appreciation for others' noticing.

I opened up, THE SWEET POTATO QUEENS BOOK OF LOVE last night to begin my education so of course there are not underwear lines showing in my CORAL SLACKS.....

Much LOVE to you ALL..
Thanks so much for your continued SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGEMENT...

LATER.....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

pssst...Mimi, over here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> You sure look nice today, by the way.

Mimi, do not spend one more minute of your time trying to analyze the OW and how she was or what she was like, what she did or didn't do.

Do not compare yourself to her.

Don't waste any of your energy or brain cells thinking about her.

You are the best girl, now go get 'em! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I just wanted to tell you all, I've been lurking and learning on this thread.

My H/WH is a procrastinator and conflicht avoider. When there is a problem that needs to be addressed, I want it handled...yesterday. The result is that when a problem comes up, he flees, I chase him and get in his face, he agrees to anything to get me off his back and then just does as he pleases, which is usually continued inaction.

I need to learn to back off, be more patient, make H feel more comfortable about addressing conflicts. I need to make it easier for him to find a constuctive, responsible way of dealing with problems that works for him and us. I need to make him feel safe, not cornered.

LostinT

You just made JL's day ... you wait ... he's gonna be so pleased!

kewl

LT:

So interesting. This is definitely the FLIGHT response. I used this as much as the FIGHT.

You said about your WH:



You said:



I'm happy for you that you are figuring this out for YOURSELF. That's what is most important. As JL has said, your changes may lead to his changes....

SUSAN:

Thanks for keeping me on point! The FOW- "DON'T GO THERE, MIMI!"

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Right Mimi...

OW's character is no more your business than your character is OW's business.

This is impossible to convey early in the recovery process, but Mimi ... you've graduated.

Mimi,

I busted WH after a breach of semi-quasi NC in a calm collected, actually rather retrospective and passive (at least for me anyway) listening mode last Friday. It was one of the few times he responded with fight instead of flight. Progress? Well, it was a lot of WS foggy spew, but he did interact with me... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />and I let it roll off like water from a duck. It didn't escalate...I didn't fight or argue, I just calmly repeated what he was saying back to him... a better babble that works for a sarcastically inclined beginner like me. And WH probably got the impression that I was listening to him. No need to agree or disagree at this point. What is the use? He is as foggy as the Shettlands in November.

Lost,

Pep is right as usual. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I am pleased so what are you going to do to address this? I mean what is your plan? You know that most people procrastinate about things they don't want to do or are unsure if they can do them. Perhaps you can talk to him about that and offer him some reasons to do these things. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Eventually I hope to have the POJA established in our marriage. Right now, dealing with a WH, the very idea of a POJA threatens his freedom and privacy to carry on his A. So you are right, I have to offer the WH some bait, there's got to be some immediate gratifying gain for him to engage in responsible negotiations to deal with conflicts. I am going to take more time to think about how I can make H feel comfortable when I intiate a conversation about a conflict, think about rewarding and gratifying alternatives, work on keeping the conversation calm ,centered and focused on one thing and not let him steer the conversation off on an irrevelant tangent.

The key for me is going to be the initial time to think factor, instead of ambushing a problem as soon as it appears, I'm going to have to decide if it can sit for 24 hours, and if if can, then let it sit and use that time to think and get centered and think about how I am going to make H feel safe dealing with this conflict together with me.

Suggestions?

Lost:

I have not had chance to read your last post. I'm planning on getting back with you sometime today...

TO ALL OF YOU:

I want to express my heartfelt appreciation for your encouragement and support...

You are SPECIAL PEOPLE to ME...

My H just left me the the ABSOLUTE SWEETEST, MOST WONDERFUL message on my VOICEMAIL... His voice was breaking..Of course, as JL says, it was probably due to his allergies.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It has to do with the changes that I have made and am making... It has to do with me being OK with using "MY PERSONAL POWER TO ENHANCE OUR RELATIONSHIP"... It has to do with me making the decision to be ME..with no FIGHT OR FLIGHT....

"HERE'S A TOAST TO ALL OF US.. CONTINUING TO WORK TOGETHER...FIGHTING THE FORCES OF EVIL..

We are the REAL SUPER-HEROES!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ya,

I think it is the allergies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> You are doing well Mimi and you sound better. Good luck with your new found power.

God Bless,


PS: I think you are now seeing how much you do affect your H and how strongly you influence his interactions with you.

JL

Hey, You Guys:

I have this lingering issue that I want to resolve. I would like to be finished with this, I know. I'm asking you to share your thoughts with me about this. I'm ready for some closure.

It came back to me this morning when they were discussing the wife of the Supreme Court nominee....

I guess I would be considered the POWER wife...advanced degree, well-known and respected in the community in my profession, history of lots of church and civic work....

Bear with me: I am also known as being humble. I don't flaunt the above. I don't come across as thinking I am better than others. I do not give off an air of superiority.. I remain this way. I am sure about this....In fact, I probably have played this down too much in the past...

H: also, well-known and powerful businessman, civic-leader,church leader... Now, on the exterior,I remain the same as above. He, of course, has fallen although continuing to do well, businesswise.... I exposed the A....

One problem that I'm sure contributed to the environment for the A was my lack of appreciation for my H's need for ADMIRATION and EGO-BUILDING. I erred in thinking that he had no self-esteem issues. He always seemed to me to have it "ALL TOGETHER". He was the MAN ON TOP. I continue to be amazed with his hign need for this. I also was not sensitive to his need for AFFECTION. It seems like I had NO CLUE. Or maybe he has changed...

Disclaimer: The next paragraph involves some discussion of the FOW. This is not about her CHARACTER or who she REALLY is. This is about who she REPRESENTS. I've come to see her as A NONPERSON who, unfortunately, was used... That's another whole story. This is my disclaimer....

Ok, now the picture is painted...

FOW: Young, working as a receptionist at a professional's office that we frequented, never been to college...H encouraged her to enroll in college, may have paid for some of this...H set up times when they would "read together" as she was not accustomed to reading for entertainment... you get the picture....He found that he needed more than ego-stroking after being with her 24/7 during PLAN B....Enough about THEM...

Do you see how I got the picture, though, early on that being the POWER WOMAN is not a good thing? In fact, H used this, trying to portray me as a "know- it- all" in his foggy statements. He said stuff like: "You've got all the answers, you don't need me", etc...which is BULL since I've been with him since age 18...

NOW: H plays up the POWER side of me more than ever.. He takes every opportunity to say how "PROUD" he is of me and tells folks that we meet about my "PROFESSION"... I provide him with lots of ADMIRATION and AFFECTION. I sincerely admire him, appreciate and respect him. BUT, I didn't let him know this....Now, I do....

There's a part I resent, though: I "hate" it when he expresses sympathy for those who have not had the "opportunity" to get an education. "Mimi, isn't it wonderful that we have done this for our children?" I want to tell him to stop having this conversation.

What do I need to learn from all of this before I let it go?