I have been asked by children, friends and relatives what is wrong. They say you just don’t seem to be your self! Even my son in-law came up to me and said Dad, remember the talk you gave me before I married your daughter that if anything was wrong, went wrong or you need someone to talk to, call me…well that goes both ways. So far I have been able to duck it by saying its just stress, new home, problems with my job etc.

Why are you keeping it a secret?

Tell them your entire world is in a tailspin right now, if they ask why, refer them to your W. Do NOT contribute to the lies by lying about what happened. It won't help. You don't have to go around wearing a t-shirt that says "My wife cheated on me", but you also don't have to tell people that it's just stress, because that's a lie.

I already told her if it was truly over, which she said “IT IS” and she is committed to our marriage; I would keep her secret the rest of our life.

So is it truly over? How is the SF? Does she account for her time? Do you have access to cell phone records?

Who was OM? Has she written a NC letter?

If she is committed to your marriage, she will be committed to doing what YOU need to heal; you are half of the marriage, the half that was hurt the most by her selfish actions. So what is she doing? How is she protecting you from being hurt worse than you already have been? Believer's questions are pretty valid. Is she making an effort to make you feel loved?

What is an NC letter?

I do not have access to my WS cell phone because it is provided by her company.
Furthermore my wife has made it clear that she will not be in a marriage where I would spy on her all of the time. I told her she needs to convince me to trust her again but it doesn’t seem to be happening. Because of how I found out about the affair, “she didn’t delete there text messages” and I read them one morning when she was showering. She is convinced that I have betrayed her almost as much as she has betrayed me “with the affair!” When I found the text messages I subscribed to a service that gave me the name of the individual whose number was on the phone. My wife believes that was an invasion of privacy. I told her nothing is private today where everything can be bought on the internet, I I made other assumptions about her cell usage and she believed that I could view her records, so I told her they can be purchased on the internet.

I would like to know positively if they are talking but would need access to both her cell and business phone records. I’m not even sure if she can get them.

I know how you feel about not knowing if they're talking to each other. My husbands OW has his new company email and cell and work number. She had them before he told me. I have no idea if they are still in communication. That is a tough solution to find.

grace4aj

HLRomantic, first off, people who have nothing to hide, don't hide. If she is serious about restoring the trust she destroyed, she would be open with you about her cell phone bills, etc. You should request that she give them to you. To hide these from you tells me she is still in touch with the OM and has something to hide.

And don't let her pull that "invasion of privacy" crapola. It is nonsense designed to prevent you from catching her.

Tell her that no one has the right to the privacy to have an affair. No one has the right to the privacy to destroy their H behind his back. And when she indignantly shrieks "YOU DON'T TRUST ME!!!" Calmly respond that, of course, you don't trust her. She is untrustworthy.


BAD MOVE! You should not disarm until trust has been restored completely. Don't give up your methods of protection while you are still under assault.


Tell her that you need them in order to restore the trust she has destroyed. An honest person whould be THRILLED to prove her trustworthiness to you. A dishonest person will be secretive and outraged that you dared to ask.

She has made it very clear with this statement that she has something to hide, HL. She is demanding to be treated the same as a trustworthy person. She needs to understand that you will do what it takes to protect yourself from her until she EARNS back your trust. Trust must be EARNED, it is not an entitlement, HL. She is not entitled to it. On the other hand, you are ENTITLED to protect yourself from her destructive activities.

She has all the classic symptoms of a WS who is still very much in an affair, HL. I hate to tell you that, but she shows none of the remorse of a WS who is done with their affair. But she shows all the entitlement and defensiveness of an active WS.

First let me say that I know that current physical contact has been impossible. They both live a thousand miles apart and I have some idea of his recent travels within his profession and current company. Second I do believe my wife when she tells me that they haven’t been intimate in 4 months, she claims the affair was mainly emotional but late last year and early this year it became more, she tells me she loves him but its not the same as me…She tells me she knows it makes no sense but that’s how she feels. She said it is very hard on her not to talk to him but knows its best for our marriage.

HL, an affair is much more than physical contact. One does not have to be in physical contact to have an affair. What you should be concerned about is why she is hiding her cell phone bills from you.

And I know what she "said." And I also know that she cannot and should not be trusted. As is evidenced by her anxiety about hiding her cell phone bills from you.

Again, people who have nothing to hide, don't hide.

Thank you, yes I understand that its more than physical, it’s just that I tolerated it, when I thought it was just two fond colleagues enjoying each others company. Heck they fooled me so well that they would invite me out to dinner, as they discussed their past projects and what was supposedly going on at the company since he left. They spent the prior year working together on a stressful merger that required them to consolidate many systems. My WS said it was than that she grew fond of him but they didn’t have intimate contact. “It is my believe that he was the first man other than me to respect her opinion and that meant an awful lot to her, considering his stature.” Evidently after he moved away he had reason to return to our state from time to time and my wife said “one night it just happened” “she didn’t plan it” and they “WS & OM” claim to be torn apart at what they could have done to their marriage and wanted to protect their spouses. She said she wishes they never took that step but it happened and she can’t change it but has told him the result is they lost each other as friends. Because she knows she can never speak or see him again. She says the right words but I guess I need some reassurance that they don’t talk any more. My heart says to believe her my head say trust and verify. So I write to this forum to write what I can’t say to her and ask for suggestions.

According to Dr. Harley articles on your giver and taker in you are at conflict when you’re doing the right things for the FS, with out getting your needs met. There are times I feel alone and need reassurance, which should come from my WS, but that would push her away and create love bank withdrawals. For instance my WS told me she was leaving work but ended up staying, because I expected her home and she was over an hour late, I became some what overly inquisitive about why and wanted to ask if she is talking again to the OM? I need how to get some assurance and keep my taker and giver in check. I try to be careful to choose my words, when she asked me what was wrong, I told her I have some concerns we should discuss, she asked me what they where and I told her I think they should be discussed in person and not over the phone. She told me fine, that her unexpected meeting with a current employee ended and she would be on her way. I’m still debating my self as to let it drop or ask her for more detailed info, which would be paramount to stating I don’t trust you!

HLR, it shouldn't be "paramount," it should be a DIRECT statement. She should have no reason to expect that you trust her; she is untrustworthy. You don't trust her and you shouldn't be acting like you do. Only an insane person would trust an untrustworthy person.

Remember, it is up to HER to earn your trust again. It is not up to you. You should be asking those questions and you should also be asking her to account to you for all her time and acting in ways that will RESTORE trust, not erode it. It does no one any good to pretend like you trust her. You don't trust her and you shouldn't.

I realize what you saying and there is a proverb that says “Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.”

Its just our relationship has always been based on trust and I find it hard not to believe in her, furthermore every time a talk about the trust issue tears fall from her face and that hurts me as much as asking her. She told me last night that she never felt she put him or her feelings for him above our relationship and only met him once a month, during that time. I told her that I felt because she let the relationship evolve that far and lied to me about it and her secret life; it put stress and jeopardized our marriage. She stated that everything adds stress in a marriage and never felt it was going to cause us to separate and only kept the truth from me because she really didn’t want to hurt me. I told her above all else I would want to know the truth…I told her that her lying to me and falling in love with him actually hurts me more than the sex. Which she stated happened four times, the first time she was week and really don’t know why she allowed the other three to occur. I asked her to explain why she thinks it happened and let it reoccur and She told me she really don’t know and if she figures it out will tell me. I asked her to promise it will never happen again, She said it shouldn’t have happened the first time, don’t you think I know I’m married and in love with you but I let it happen, How can I promises you something when I already broke my promise?

I would like to hear from another W-WS that could shed some light on her explanations?

So far she lets me ramble asking questions about anything especially how I feel, so far I just can’t get her to talk openly about her feelings…at least it seems that way but when I let her know that I seem to be the one doing all of the talking, she replies that she talks and shares what she feels like and I shouldn’t push her to share thoughts when she doesn’t have anything to share. Sometimes I feel I’m pushing to heard to find answers where none might exist. I’m starting to feel that by questions just keep reminding her that she betrayed me and just makes her sad. Which is why I didn’t bring it up all weekend, I thought she desired a break.

I’m not sure how much to talk about it, how much to question her or if I should just try concentrating on us for a couple of weeks?

HL... normally I like to argue with Melody wherever possible, but in this case all I can do is totally back her up. Everything she's posted to you here is a gem of wisdom. Please make sure you are listening really really well.


Here is another example that your wife is just not 'getting it'. The moment her relationship with the OM crossed the emotional line and became an affair, she put her feelings for him above your marriage.

Reading your posts, it seems like her mindset has not changed. She still has the way of thinking of a wayward spouse. Like Mel said, you'd be a fool to trust a non-trustworthy person.

I learned this the hard way. Like you, a big part of my relationship with my W is based on trust. I've never yet in my life met someone who I considered as honest as her. And yet, to my ULTIMATE surprise, I caught her in a lie last spring. I figured it was a one in a million chance and freely continued giving her my trust. Well, guess what... it happened again. This time, instead of just breaking NC, the affair got back into full swing and I only discovered it by accident months later.

Affairs make honest, good people into liars and cheaters. No-one is immune.

Your W wants to be treated with trust? I understand that, but unless she earns it, it will mean nothing to her.

And furthermore, until she shows a marked change in her thinking, if I were you I would consider the affair to still be 'on'... even if they aren't in contact. (about which I'd have my doubts)

dewt

Are you getting any counselling for this?

But your relationship IS NOT based on trust, HL. Your wife had an affair. Her untrustworthy actions SHOULD cause her pain. Please stop trying to protect her from the consequences of her actions. She is untrustworthy. You do her no favors pretending she is. Why are you playing pretend games? Who does that help?