It's been just five days since discovery. I have read everything on the site and feel good about my plan. Wife has not given up OM (works closely with him) so this is going to be difficult. We have two kids --- three and five. I suppose I am in the beginnings of Plan A. I will not leave my house even though I feel she wishes I wasn't here. I feel that I need to stay and show her that I am supportive and committed to us and the kids. This staying, though, is very hard. I feel as though my presence annoys her (perhaps reminds her of what she has done). She has said that she may need some time alone but I don't think I should give it to her by leaving. I am having trouble knowing how to behave. On one hand, I don't want to suffocate her with R talk --- she is closed off and cannot talk yet --- clearly confused, guilt-ridden, and probably heavily fogged. She has nothing to say to me right now. On the other hand, I feel that I need to help her work through some issues with the affair and us. I so want to help her. She may not be ready to do that yet. I'm torn --- how should I act to give our marriage the best chance of surviving. We do have a counseling session set up for next week. Hope we can make it that long.

Help in Louisville--

First, you do NOT leave. Any stepping aside on your part allows the A to flourish.

You do Plan A. You do not act like a doormat. You do not LB, but you state your expectation that she give up the A. If she continues to refuse, you expose.

Good luck.

jgoatboy, did you follow the advice we gave you? Did you expose this affair? That is the most critical component of Plan A. Your marriage is not going to make it unless you bust up this affair. And the way you bust up this affair is to EXPOSE it and make it as uncomfortable as possible.

And like I said before, do not leave. If she needs "space" tell her to go in the garage or the bathroom and shut the door.

But we can't do anything for you if you don't go on the offensive and expose this affair. You should be doing everything in your power to end this affair and ALL CONTACT. Meaning that she won't be able to continue to work with him if you want to recover your affair. That means you may have to expose him at work - after you expose to his W.

Yep - Melody is right. Expose, expose, expose. Don't try to talk to her, don't reason with her.

Affair is exposed already --- OMW knows as do some associates at her office. I told her today that I believe she must end this affair now. She did not respond to that.
Wondering how I should act at home. As positive as possible?

I would not talk to her about your relationship at all right now. Start Plan A. Around your home, think of you and your children as a family, which she is invited to join. Her wanting space is just the same old thing they always say.

What happened when you told the OM's wife? Does she want to save her marriage?

What exactly did you say to the OMW when you spoke to her? Are you still in contact with her and comparing notes?
And what did her boss say when you told him?

ok, jgoat, I don't get it. Yesterday you asked this:


And today you claim you have exposed the affair to her. When did all this happen? What did you tell her?

jgoatboy, if you want to save this marriage, you are going to have to expose this affair and do a little work here. And office cooler rumors do not count as exposure. Exposure means picking up the damn phone and telling everything you know to the OMW. It means staying in touch and comparing notes. It means sending a certified letter to all the senior partners and any other key person notifying them of the affair. It means calling your close family, her close family, friends, pastor and telling them. It means doing everything in your power to cause the most discomfort, embarrassment and conflict in the affair you can. That is exposure, that is Plan A.

Exposure is not sitting back hiding in the dark hoping that a rumor will reach someone. If you want to save your marriage, you are going to have to do some work here and take a few risks. You are in a fight for your marriage, this is no time to go wobbley.

And I want to caution you about marriage counselors. Most marriage counselors are NOT pro-marriage and are very eager to counsel divorce. Relatively FEW know anything about the dynamics of infidelity. It is very common for the average MC to recommend seperation, and even divorce. They are not trained in solving the problem and don't understand infidelity.

Not only that, but marriage counseling is USELESS when the the WS is still in the affair. So, please do not get your hopes up. Marriage counseling often causes more problems for the couple than if they had never gone. We see the fallout on this forum quite often. So, please don't get your hopes up. I am not trying to be discouraging, just realistic. If you want to counsel with a counselor who specializes in affairs and could give you a plan, I would try Steve Harley of Marriage Builders. He is worth every penny and is PRO-marriage.

Sorry to be confusing. I have not spoken to OMW. My wife told me that OMW knows and has for a month because OM told her and my wife has been receiving insulting e-mails from OMW. I was going to contact OMW last week but my marriage counselor told me to back off and give it a few days. I will call OMW and at least speak to her.
As for my wife's work, that is more complicated. The OM is a senior partner already and the other senior partner is having an work affair with my wife's best friend at the office. As a female attorney in a cutthroat law firm/business, my wife places tremendous value on her work. To expose her there might be an unforgiveable action in her eyes. She would probably tell me to go right then.
If I were to write a letter, who would I write it to and what would it say? What position would I take?
We have only four days to a counseling session. I'm thinking that I will wait until then and see how the session goes --- then go on the offensive. My wife and I have talked a lot about the affair --- right now she doesn't know what she will do. She is wavering mainly because she is worried about the kids and the impact this would have on them. I am afraid an extreme move right now could ruin any chace we might have. OM may not have the guts to actually leave his wife --- he has been telling her he will for weeks but hasn't yet.

jgoatboy, your marriage will survive the anger of exposure, it WON'T survive an ongoing affair. So, take your pick. Its important that you do everything to disrupt this affair, and in your W's case, it must be done at work because her affair is taking place AT WORK. We ALL think they "won't forgive" us, but guess what? They always get get over it. What they don't get over is the AFFAIR if you don't lift a finger to stop it. There won't be anything TO forgive if you don't get to work and bust up this affair because there will be no marriage.

You are headed for a DIVORCE right now and are sitting here worrying about her being mad about exposure. I don't get that. Shouldn't you be more scared of a divorce?

And yes, she will be furious. But that's ok. Your marriage can survive some temporary anger, it can't survive an affair.

You should call the OMW NOW. This affair has not been exposed to her. Maybe she has heard rumors and maybe your wife is lying. Either way, she must be told the true facts and brought into the loop. She must be told what her H is telling your W.

There is no reason to wait and I am confused why your MC would advise you to wait. Wait for what, exactly? If you have a MC that tells you NOT to expose to OMW, just know you are dealing with a dud.

p.s. we would help you write the letter to the senior partners.

Your chances are being ruined right now because of inaction, my friend. The longer you let this affair go on, the more cemented the affair becomes. You are essentially enabling the affair right now. You are helping the infidels and doing nothing to help your marriage or your family. An "extreme" move is having an affair. Defending yourself and your children is not an "extreme" move, it is a rational response.

You should be doing everything in your power to hasten the affair's end, not enable it. You should be making the affair a very embarrassing, uncomfortable place to be. It is a fantasy and is only allowed to thrive under the veil of secrecy. You are helping them keep it a secret at your own expense, because you don't want to rock the boat. Your life, and that of your children's is being navigated by an insane woman under the influence of an addictive affair. You are headed for the rocks with absolutely no plan because you don't want to rock the boat.

You may not see it, but those of us who been on these forums for years can see it very clearly. And we know the result of your strategy. And we know know the result of ours. You are headed for a crash.


You don't have any idea what he has been telling his wife; you haven't talked to her. This is probably a lie the OM told your W so he could keep using her. They usually have no intention whatsoever of leaving their wives. This is WHY it is so important for you to call the OMW and tell her this. It will expose the lies of the OM and your wife.

I will call OMW if I can find out her number. How would I word a letter to the firm? Who could I send it to? Two of the three senior partners are in the midst of affairs --- one is OMW of course.

jgoatboy, I would send the letter to the other 2 senior partners. [even the one who is supposedly having the affair] Tell them that your W is having a workplace affair with XYZ and that it is causing great distress on your family. Ask them what they plan to do about it. Do you have some sort of evidence you could also send? [others here can help with the wording]

Also, it is very important that you not forewarn your W you are going to do all this.

The OMW and the senior partners are the key exposures, IMO. But you will also need to expose to her family, your family and your close friends. It should be timed very close together for the best effect. First off, it will make your WW angry and it is much easier to deal with the fallout once, rather than several times. Secondly, the shock of multiple key exposures at once can often be the death blow to the affair. You don't want to lose that advantage by stringing them out. Get it all done in one fell swoop. And get it done before your W can pre-empt you and spin the story.

The OM is lying to his wife. Trust me I know. Been there...got the damn t shirt ok?

If she knew there would be hell to pay in that household. Heat on 110 degrees there 24/7 believe me.

Exposure is a necessity. It is. And some will do all they can to fight it.

Either way, the outcome is a good one. I exposed the heck outta my xh. Now more exposure from his present W (former OW)...as he's still cheating.

Remember...lies love the dark. That's where they grow. They flourish there. Aim some light at them.

I'd send the letter via certified mail. I'd use all internet resources to contact the wifeypoo. She has gotta know.

She may become your ally.

Here is the reality. If the affair is discovered by everybody, one of two things happens. Two outcomes.
OutcomeA: Affair ends. Both see destruction and damage that can come from two divorces...Lawyers should know this part first hand. And if it is a fault state, they'd be scared of that fact. They'd be afraid of people finding out and tarnishing their public reputation as being non biased litigators. Not good for their image.
OutcomeB: Affair does not end. The "world is against us" scenario ensenues (what my xh did). It makes them madder and more stupid. They lose their reputations. But what do they care? If it feels good they keep on doing it. And eventually they'll cheat on each other should their affair survive the stress of her divorce and his divorce.

But here's outcome now. Youre doing nada. zilch.

Here's what will happen if you do not expose. The litigators will continue screwing. They will try to sweep all evidences of impropriety under the proverbial table. They will proceed until one or both parties divorce. Their reputations remain good, despite watercooler gossips. And you look like a loony accusing her of cheating...which is not proven.

Do it. Do it now. Either way you look at it, your best odds of saving your M is by exposing. one in 3 shot.

jgoat, to expand on justpeachy's point, the OM probably is lying to both your W and his W to keep them both in his harem. You can use this to your advantage by telling your W what he is telling his W. He is probably telling his W that he loves her and wants to stay with her and telling your W he is going to leave his W for your W. This is almost always what happens. You can use this information to cause huge problems in the affair by exposing his lies to your w.

It's likely that he has no intention whatsoever of ever leaving his w, but he needs to tell your W this so he can continue his affair.

JGB,
I’ve been away for a while so I’ve missed other of your posts I’m sure. I opened this one...mostly because even in my current selfish state of mind… the title of your post got to me, LOL….In that annoying WW’s is my specialty these days…that and wayward daughters as well, LOL…(but that’s a whole other story). Anyway, here are few things you really need to think about…

1. Realize that for all intent and purposes, your wife has already left “the building” so to speak. Yes, she may still be ware housing her body at the “family” home but she’s not really there any more…not spiritually and certainly not emotionally. As you have already noticed…she has two separate lives…and unless I’m mistaken and she isn’t running true to form…it’s her life with you that has become incidental.

I make the above point for a reason. To often we BS function from a position of fear…worrying about the ramifications of taking the strong pro-active approach and steps we need to take to solve our problem…we live in terror…worrying that what already has happened…WILL happen! Get it? So if you’re worried about her leaving you…DON”T…because SHE ALREADY HAS!

2. Second, understand that your WW is a cheat and an adulterer…that means that by definition she is also a lire…therefore, you cannot believe a word she says to you…as Watt has so succinctly put it in his introductory post to the new BSs, believe nothing *they* say and less then half of what you see with your own eyes.

Therefore when she begins giving out the tired old clichés and platitudes…don’t be put of by her physco/space babble. Lawyer or no lawyer…weather you love her or want to kill her…weather you believe she’s a saint or tramp…weather she is a good mother or the mother of all errant mother’s…understand this and believe it because it’s true…Your wife is no longer the woman you married. Get it? This is some one else...someone that looks like that woman, sounds like her...who has some how acquired your wife’s credential...but this is no longer the same woman…

Need proof? Ask yourself this…would the woman you married be doing the things that this woman is doing?...Sleeping with another man other then you...her husband...making excuses for her actions…refusing to step back and stop…even while knowing how it must be hurting you …the man she married and said she loved more then any other…and would for all times…hurting you to the bone!?

3. So JGB, here is the thing…to break up the affair…re-establish a relationship with your WW and bring her back to you and her family…save her from the clutches of the space creatures that now have her so to speak…there are certain prescribed actions that need to take place…actions that when put together constitute a Plan…and JGB, Plans don’t work unless we follow them…make sense ha? How can a Plan work if we only implement part of it? It can’t and it won’t…so make up your mind right now…either follow the plan or just let this marriage die from wishful thinking, because that is what most likely will happen unless you stand up, come forward and fight the fight to save it.
So when folks here tell you that the first step in initiating the Plan is to expose the affair…don’t make excuses, equivocate or play dumb…just suck it up and do it! For goodness sake call the OM’s wife…call his & your WW’s partners…ALL THYE PARTNERS…THOSE WHO ARE ALSO HAVING AFFAIRS AND THOSE WHO ARE NOT…and tell them all that you’re sick of what’s going on and intend to do anything with in your power to discredit that den of inequity calling itself a law firm...and you intend to do it a way that will be detrimental to the firm as a whole…call her friends and family and tell them…tell anyone who she likes or respects…take an ad out in the local paper if you have to…but do everything in your power to cause her and her new soul mate the most public embarrassment you can…You do this to put pressure on the affair…to cause them to face up to reality…to steal their romantic atmosphere and force them to live with the same pressures of life that reality brings to us all.

Just do it! And then come back here for more and better ways to implement the rest of your plan. And for goodness sake…don’t try to understand everything at once…take it in steps…this is how you work your way back into a position where you are back control of the only thing you can control…yourself and your life.

Any questions, just ask.
Coach

I spoke to OMW yesterday. I was going to call her (finally tracked down her phone number) when she called our house. First she spoke to my wife and then I called her back and talked to her for about an hour. This is what she told me:

1) she has known about the affair for a couple of months
2) her husband (OM) has been telling her he loves her and wants to stay with her, but he says he is "in love with two people"
3) Most people in the firm know what's going on --- all of the people involved in this quartet work there except for me! How screwy is that?

After we both talked to OMW, my wife and I sat down and talked for hours. Her stated reaction was that she was "done". Done with OMW, OM, me, everything. She just needs to put the kids first. She said this 20 times at least. She also kept repeating "I don't want to be with him." (OMW). Later she broke down and got out a lot of resentment at me for not being there for her when she needed me and in effect, putting her in this position. I knew that was totally unfair but I stayed calm and just let her talk and vent. I said little.

Here's what I think is going on:

My wife is still in love with OM --- wishes she wasn't, says otherwise, can't admit it, but is feeling hurt and betrayed by him because OM has been doing the classic "stringing along of two W at once" so he never has to make a decision. By her own admission, she feels "used" and "like an idiot" for screwing up everyone's life.

This is the beginning of the end of the affair. I have a small hope now that soon we can start to take steps towards recovery. The complicated part is that my wife still works with these people. Eventually that will have to come up, and a NC resolution made. Right now, I think the best thing I can do is to work on myself, stay strong, support my wife at home and continue to try and meet her ENs as much as I can. We are going to counseling in a couple days.

My wife will not own her feelings about this yet, but she will have to. And so will I.

One more thing. My wife kept saying "she needs some time alone". This is her usual reaction to extreme stress --- she shuts up to protect herself and won't let anyone in.
I think she's just in denial. I told her I wasn't leaving the house and that I would stay and help her through this.

JGB,
A couple of things are happening now and you need to know that these things are all “by the book.” What she is saying, feeling and doing has no originality in it…in fact if she feels embarrassed now, wait untill she finds out what a tired old cliché this great love affair of hers really is.

So here’s what you need to watch out for and here’s how you may want to handle the current state of events.

First, don’t listen to her babble…just don’t…She is so fogged out right now that she can’t begin to realize how she is sounding to others…worse yet…she has no idea what to do…how to get her life back on track…or how low she has sunk. At this point in time, anything she may say has even less validity then a drug addict suffering withdrawal.

Next, understand that when she places blame on you…she is following *the script*…almost word for word…that almost all cheaters babble…once they are found out. Everything is some one else’s fault…Mostly yours…She bares no responsibility…for all that’s come to pass…or anything else…everything that is wrong in her life right now is a function of some evil conspiracy…LOL…She is the victim!

Your next move is to get her into marriage counseling…so that you have professional help in convincing her that to heal the marriage…she must adopt a firm stand on NO CONTACT!

With out no contact, it is very nearly impossible for a marriage to be saved…and this isn’t the Coach (that being me) making this assertion…this is text book stuff!…This is literally Harley’s first rule for reconciliation…NO CONTACT must be established…it simply must!

How important is this very simple concept?…It may interest you to know that to save their marriages…many couples have literally picked up their lives and physically moved geographically away…to another location…state or even country…to live and work…

And by the way…NO CONTACT means just that!…No telephone calls, meetings, e-mails, cards, letters or gifts…nothing of the affair must be retained…Even friends that may know both parties…she and her little soul mate…are to be avoided…So called friends and associates that either aided or abetted in the affair are certainly to be avoided…

Think of this as the MB equivalent of a radical mastectomy!…The cancer must be cut out…and in almost every case where possible…the surgery must be so radical that nothing is left to chance. This is the battle you are now joined in! Know it and face it and harden yourself to its reality…because that’s what it will take to win this war.

Stay close to us now…and let us all help you…you’re going to need the support.

Coach