It was supposed to be wry LM ! but also true, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

These are excellent points, Bob, that I am learning much from. I have to agree. I start off giving folks the basic principles, but somehow fall into the bad habit of micromanaging the plan. I get impatient! The downfall with that is the BS ceases to think on his feet and misses opportunities.

On the other hand, sometimes I feel obliged to spell it out minutely because otherwise the person will never get it. But then again, those folks usually never follow my advice anyway, so maybe the reason they don't get it is because they don't WANT to get it. I get frustrated often because I wonder how many opportunities that person misses. So maybe it is just because they didn't want to get it. I think of the ones who DID want to get it. We didn't have to give them step by step instructions; they looked for and acted on opportunities.

Good food for thought, Bob... You are pretty smart for a foreigner! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What I want to give mel is a pimp-slap sometimes.

" Be a MAN for f'ks sake !! Stop quivering ! She's gone - being banged by OM ! You can't lose her any more by acting like you value yourself a shred ! Have some dignity man !"

See ? Thats not very PC is it ?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Is a "pimp-slap" some silly foreign thing???? lol

Just thinking about this a bit more...

I like that in Al Anon, we learn to share "Experience, Strength and Hope".

I'd like to think it applies here too. Not that practical advice should never be given, but I think that it becomes easier to detach from the outcome. When I talk about me, and my experience in my particular situation, and the answers and lessons that I learned along the way, and post about the good that happend in my life as a result, then I can let go of the poster it is directed at.

My ego, my need to be recognized and listened to in an unhealthy way, becomes 'less' and then I can listen to the newcomer, and 'hear' if they are here to whine or here to learn.

Just curious....

if it appears someone is just here to whine, do you respond? If you do, how do you respond?

Sometimes I will say ... "Nice vent."

but othrwise, I am not sure if there is any response necessary ... even to be polite.

Every so often, I see a lonely new thread with a dozen or more "views" and ZERO responses ... and I just go in to say ~anything~ (doesn't matter what) so as to bump up the thread back to the top so maybe someone with more patience than I might be of service.

Sometimes the lonliness is palpable. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I do too. I hate to see a post go unanswered, especially a newbie.

IMVHO, this thread is invaluable !

Took me 8 years to figure out that I fell into this type of 'pattern.' And in fact, I didn't realize it until I came to this board, and was attending group counseling. Nothing like about 25 people on your a** calling you out on playing the 'victim.'

I have often wondered what I got out of being the 'victim' and continuing the pattern of voicing my hurt but not following advice. And honestly, I think it was some sort of sick way of feeling better about myself. It was not necessarily the 'attention', but more the 'affirmation' that I was a good person. And I was even 'more patient' and 'so sweet' for trying to 'help' the person who was harming me. I was the eternal MARTYR. And that helped me to think I was worth something.

Now I realize that I can love myself, without being a victim or a martyr. That I have unique qualities about myself that deserve to be loved and cherished. And those 'not-so-good' qualities...well...even they deserve to be accepted and appreciated for what they are - a part of me.

Geeeeez...It only took me 8 years to realize all this! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for posting this thread. There are a few people on this board who could really stand to take a gander at it!

LIT

You know, I think some DO come here to whine. But I also think that is OK. Some need to do that. I believe they have as much right to come here as anyone else. But what I have realized is that I have nothing to offer them. I am not good with small talk and soothing pats on the back. I am not a nurturer. But others ARE. So, I try to leave those to the ones who are better equipped to assist.

For example, believer and stillseeking are very soothing, nurturing people. Many here need that. JL and Pep are very good with wayward spouses. Others are NOT. I am sure not.

I think that is the beauty of this forum. We have a wide variety of people here who have a wide variety of talents and differing levels of experience to offer.

What about the posters that say it is time for them to go. All for various reasons. I've seen it a zillion times since I've been here.

They make a big production out of leaving, everyone begs them to stay and usually they do.

Are they just frustrated and needing a break?
Would recognizing these patterns within themselves help avoid the frustration?
Or are they needing some type of ego stroking?

As you see, I've been here since 1969, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> so I ain't planning on leaving. If I did, I'd just leave. There would be no going away party. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

This is true

and let's not forget the blessing of Lemonman .... who often says what I'm thinking so I don't have too!!! He takes the flak for me unknowingly ~~~LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LOL!!!!!!! Talk about an 'Old Timer'! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Cool trick, Susan! he he! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Well, I left once out of sheer disgust. But I didn't make a production out of it. I just said I am off, and left for a break. Took my break and came back. I didn't even manage to get in a "goodbyecruelworld!"

Mel:

Thanks for pointing this out. Now, as for myself, I am by nature a nurterer and hopefully if you read enough of my posts you can learn to be a nurterer and offer some soothing advice also. Sometimes a good "pat on the back" (with a 2 x 4 ofcourse) is what one needs....LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sour.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

**snort** he does have a "special" bedside manner, doesn't he? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LOL...Mel, I was not talking about you hunny. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Actually, no one specific, but I think you know what I mean.

I've taken breaks too. I think we all do that at times.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I usually think it is disrespectful to ask someone to stay on MB once they decide it is their time to say "bye-bye" ... It's as if MB needs are more important than anyone's personal obligations.

Even if they leave in a snit, it's their right.

I find it especially disturbing for the board to BEG someone to stay when they have said their SPOUSE has asked them to leave MB ... like we are saying IGNORE POJA with your spouse, because WE want you to post messages here.

That is stupid if you ask me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

OMG, I just spewed my Sugar Free Tropicana Twister!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

s.t.e.p. a.w.a.y. f.r.o.m. t.h.e. c.r.a.c.k.p.i.p.e., Dr. of Delusions!

"nurturer" indeed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

It's not a crack pipe Mel ... I sold Sour some of my narcotic cough syrup! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

That boy is on some serious hard stuff, that is for sure! Dr Sour the "nurturer!" ROFL!