LL,
Each person here that loves and cares about you represents a tiny piece of God's love. So, of course God hears you! And, of course, God loves you.

Please remember the story of the Prodigal Son. When he left his family, he knew that the choices he made, and the behaviors he engaged in were not "right". And yes....he had consequences for his choices and behaviors. BUT, the important thing is that he RETURNED TO HIS FATHER, sins and all! Just as YOU have, even in these very moments. And did his father turn him away...lecture him...say "I told you so!"...give him the silent treatment?????? NO! He dressed him in finery and threw a party, giving thanks that he had returned.

LL...You can not throw away your inheritance so easily! Your Father is waiting to welcome you back into His arms EXACTLY as you are in this moment! You are the Lordslady!! And HE is the first to call out your name in celebration of your return!

well, I am not so refrained, LL you did mess up pretty bad...and I might comment on the whole pre-marital sex issue (again), and apply a solid 2x4, but one of my thoughts is regardless of your poor judgement, this sorry excuse for a man, deliberately violated stated boundaries, and put both of you at risk....you more so. You know all you need to know about this loser, so my advice is 2 things, first he get an std test at first appropriate moment (and you too), and sign a wavier giving you direct access to the results, as well as a follow up Aids test...and second, have absolutely no contact with him anymore (other than arrangeing and exchangeing std results). Whether he is a predator or not is moot, and whether you "encouraged" (and I suspect you are fully culpable) him or not, males have an obligation to protect females, and he sure didn't do so, that is a fatal character defect IMO, nothing can redeem it.

Re your name, you are saved or you are not, only you control that state (salvation is yours to ask for..or turn away from)... hopefully you have been on your knees asking for forgiveness, and the strength to deal with whatever consequences you have earned...If you luck out, and dodge the std/pregnancy/stalker etc. bullets, thank the Lord you were given a second chance, use it well LL, understand what in the heck is missing in your self-awareness and controll that you could be so incredibly stupid. God works in mysterious ways, (been there done that), but if you don't learn this lesson, shame on you....don't run (so to speak), and stop beating yourself up, what is done is done, look to God for the strength and discernment to get through this, you ain't gonna make it on your own.

LL
As an aside...if, if ,if, if,

I have never been comfortable with people who have Down Syndrome. I am a social worker, and that is one population I couldn't work with. When I was pregnant with my sons, I prayed to God that they be healthy, but if not, then please don't let them have Down Syndrome. Anything but that.

Anyhow, my xWS (47yr.old)had an affair with an OW who was 21 years old. She got pregnant. She was 7 months pregnant when I finally confirmed the whole messy affair. My xWS and I had talked about reconciliation. He was clear that he would never give up a relationship with his future child. Didn't feel it would be right or fair to the child. I didn't know if I could accept an OC into my life, but I didn't totally rule it out. I told myself and my xWS that I made no promises. I would take things as they occurred and make decisions about reconciliation as each issue came up. He said he could totally understand that, and could in no way ask or expect me to accept any of the circumstances.

Well, the OC was born......with Down Syndrome. I cursed God! "How could you allow this to happen God? Here I am, willing to consider reconciliation under very difficult circumstances, and now You add this to the situation!!" I was angry....and heartbroken.

My xWS and I spoke openly about our feelings around his son having D.S. I finally decided that I wanted to meet his infant son. My xWS brought him to my house. It came time for the little guy's bottle. I asked to feed him. I took him in my arms, he nuzzled into me, and I gave him his bottle. I fell in love with him! He drifted off to sleep, cuddled in my arms.

I NEVER thought that this would ever be possible on my part..especially under the circumstances. Things did not work out for me and my xWS. But it wasn't because of the OC...or the Down Syndrome. Miracles do happen! And in many ways, the OC was my miracle of love and acceptance!

I'm still at home. I didn't go to the doctor today--I didn't want to tempt myself with the possibility of drugs that could potentially be considered an abortive agent.

I've done a lot of reading--some that sort of comforted me and some that didn't at all. Not trying to be graphic here, but then again, I've pretty much bared everything already. The SF was not allowed to finish--I made him stop before that happened. So although I know it only takes one sperm to cause a pregnancy and that some are there even before that happens, I'm hoping that upped my odds a bit the other way.

I think my main fears right now are: fear of being PG and raising a child alone at middle age with no hope of ever having a man in my life again, fear of what a high-risk pregnancy I'd have given my heart arrhythmias (they appeared years after my last child was born), and the fear of being a single mom to a handicapped child. It does seem overwhelming. But I know I always expect the worst and generally I've been very fortunate in that it didn't happen. The one time it did happen (my husband actually not turning around and coming back to me) has turned out to be a blessing, I think, in most ways.

Addressing you guys:

Faith--I know, there isn't anything more anyone can really do except listen to me vent and try and help me stay focused until this resolves one way or another. I'm a worrier--it's my weakness that I struggle with. And I'm really struggling right now. It's really hard to imagine those images I've conjured up. I can't think of anything I'd like much less than being 40 and pregnant, even if I was in a marriage.

Confused,

Yes, having my tubes tied was the option I was going to pursue should I meet my future partner (assuming I ever met him) and he hadn't already had a vasectomy. I'm just nervous about having it done because of the same aforementioned heart arrhythmias. I'm sure they'd be fine, but I've not been under heavy anesthesia since they appeared in the mid-90's. But at this moment, it's irrelevant.

Gnome,

You and RM are both kinder than I think you should be. I feel very hypocritical right now. I've been blowing on about how I'm going to wait until marriage, and then it takes me one stinking month with a guy to blow that to bits!

I agree that it was wrong of him to not respect my boundaries. And yes, I stated them over and over, right pretty much until the point of no return, with reasons why. But stupid emotions overtook smart logic and reason on my part. He didn't exactly hold a gun to my head or make threats. I think that's why I'm so angry with myself. At least he's been fairly honest from the get-go about how he feels about premarital sex, and that he understood my views but didn't necessarily share them. I knew that, and yet because I did enjoy being with him, I have continued to see him, knowing in the back of my mind that I was pushing my luck but thinking I was strong enough and in control enough to resist anything he might try. Wrong!

HM,

I have a lot of repairing of my relationship with God to do right now. Yes, I remember the prodigal son. And I even feel guilty when I ask for forgiveness, because I'd be totally lying right now if I said it was awful and I hated it and had no pleasant memories. But I feel like that's how I SHOULD feel, because it is wrong and I know that!

As for your D.S. story, I know they say parents are totally in awe of their child, even if handicapped. There is couple my ex and I used to be friends with who have a daughter my son's age now who is profoundly handicapped. She has a very rare birth defect and is only one of a handfull of people who have survived to her age in this country with it. It is so sad to watch what she's endured and I've found myself many times thinking, 'It would have been so much better had she not survived as an infant'. They've had a very difficult life because they have chosen to keep her at home vs. institutionalize her, and she's an extremely difficult, beligerant, often violent teen with some facial deformaties that are difficult to accept if one isn't used to being around her. But they love her, and they and her brother see things in her that others don't. The mother has said to me before how angry it made her when the child was born and people would talk about how it would be better if perhaps she didn't make it. I don't understand, because all I see is suffering in their family on many fronts, but they truly do love her just as they would a normal child. BUT..they have each other (husband/wife) and a large extended family who has helped a great deal throughout her life to give the parents breaks when they needed some time by themselves, and they've had each other to lean on for companionship and love and support. They haven't done it alone.

Knight,

I did expect the 2x4 from you. And I deserve it.


My thoughts exactly. "Incredibly stupid". Couldn't have put it better. It's one thing for a teenager to do this. But I'm 39, a business professional, and fairly intelligent most of the time. I know right from wrong. So why did I let endorphins send me on such a trip that I couldn't turn it around before it was too late? Maybe it's because I've never been in a relationship for very long that wasn't a sexual relationship--either before marriage, or then for my 19 years of marriage.

This is why I shouldn't have continued dating this guy, even if just for dating practice--because he doesn't share my beliefs and I was afraid something like this would happen.

As for your suggestion of tests, etc., whether right or more than likely, wrong, I won't go that route with him. That makes it sound like he's this evil pervert who took advantage of me and now I want him to pay.

First, ultimately consent was entirely mutual. It wasn't like I wasn't kissing him back or that I was forced into his room against my will. Second, I know AIDS is always possible, but it's very rare still in heterosexual populations here in Iowa. His lifestyle is not one where I would worry a great deal about that. He's in grad school, he's very athletic, he's very into being healthy. He doesn't hang with the type of people I'd be too concerned about. Other STD's, yes, are possible. But I will concern myself with getting ME tested. That's what really matters at this point anyway. That's what I did after my ex started the affair with the OW. Her past was much worse--she IS a risk. I didn't force him to get tested. I just waited and got ME tested.

I know I should quit seeing this guy. That's the tough thing. I'm not angry with him (I am disappointed that he showed no more respect than he did for my wishes), but like I said, I didn't exactly put up a great fight. He holds no potential as a serious partner, first because of the difference in beliefs, and now because of what I've learned being around him this week. I more have just enjoyed watching movies with him, playing mini-golf, going to dinner, etc...until this all blew up.

But right now I have other things to think about anyway. I'll sort all that out later.

One thing though...I really don't see him as a predator at all. He is a guy who admits he doesn't share my Christian beliefs nor my views that sex must wait until marriage, but other than that he's just your run-of-the-mill single guy nowadays, not at all flirty toward others when we're out, and a little shy even. He's just competitive and driven toward goals (should have had a clue based on his extreme athletic competitiveness and how hard he works himself to stay in shape) and I think he set his mind on this and wasn't going to let it go until he proved me wrong. Sadly, he was successful.

predators come in all flavors.... there commonality is not respecting other peoples needs, boundaries in pursuit of what they want....until you stop making excuses for other peoples behavior, you will remain at risk (for choosing poorly)...

For crying out loud LL, you are 40 yo, and not stupid... nor should you be this naive. So he is a nice predator, who gives a flying flip. There are all kinds of strategies and if you don't think you were played....then you are hopeless. You are an emotional wreck, without the backbone to enfore boundaries and he nailed you...own that LL. This is not a nice person.

and btw...not mad at him!!!! You should be furious....you trusted this man and he betrayed you as badly as one can be betrayed....

How in the heck do you explain this (so to speak) to your kids when you advocate abstinence to them? He knew your values, not only did he rob you, he seriously has attacked your children, through you....this is a mess LL, do NOT GIVE THIS MAN A WALK...personally if you should ever see him again, you need to punch out his lights (males understand that kind of communication). For my money, satan has been working on you LL, he knows your weaknesses and used them against you... yeah you are needy and deprived...aren't we all..so what. Anyways, looking on the bright side, if you process this right, you should be armoured in the future...is up to you.

Let's see if I've got this straight, lordslady: you think this guy didn't just demonstrate callous disregard for your boundaries and your risks, but that he actually set his mind - i.e. premeditated - on finding a way to manipulate you into a position where you would see that you could be manipulated into going against your beliefs. He deliberately set out to tear you down!?

How is it that you don't see that as predatory behavior, lordslady? I really think you need to ask yourself why you find his behavior acceptable. Do you have such disrespect for yourself that you cannot recognize it in others?

I'm not suggesting that you should try to absolve yourself of your own responsibility and lay it all on him, but you need to see his actions and attitude in a more accurate light if you are going to be able to evaluate future relationships without opening yourself to undue pain and risk.

Okay, I guess my definition of a "predator" was different than you guys'...more true evil, someone who might just accomplish their mission and move on, not caring at all about the other person.

In that sense, I think he doesn't fit the description. He doesn't seem to be moving on. In fact, he has made several statements that would lead one to believe that he would like to consider us an item, and even made a few statements about how it wouldn't take me 4 years this time to get married again (in reference to my saying I dated my ex for 4 years), and how I might even be married shortly after I turn 40. I have made it very clear that I am not committing, and that our difference in beliefs are the big deal-breaker for me as far as why I'm not ready to commit.

However...both Knight and Gnome, I do have to agree, he didn't have my best interests at heart.

Gnome said:



Without writing a novel here, I guess I did find his behavior, if not acceptable, then "normal". Why? Because I let a man I loved very much, for 19 years of marriage (and 4 years of dating), walk all over me and do whatever he wanted, when he wanted, and then when I tried to call him on it, he turned on me and yelled at me and I allowed him to make me believe that it was my fault, or that I had unrealistic expectations.

So, it's going to be a challenge for me to figure out what is NOT normal or acceptable in future relationships, but I don't know how to do that without actually experiencing the situations and dealing with them. If I just sit and never date, I guess I stay safe (and maybe thats God's plan, if I do end up PG, which is still a huge concern today for me). But I so want to experience having a partner again, but this time a Christian one who shares my beliefs and goals.

LL

For all that I don't believe that sexual activity must only happen in the boundaries of marriage, I have to agree with the gentlemen on this: This guy KNEW what your beliefs and wishes were on the issue, but did not at any time demonstrate RESPECT for those beliefs and wishes. In doing so, he did not demonstrate RESPECT for YOU.

Yes, it was your decision to make at that moment, and you made what you are now seeing as the wrong decision. BUT, he should NEVER have brought you to a point of having to make that decision, since you had already told him what the decision should be for you. Predator, perhaps not in the sense of strictly being with you for sex, but I would say that his competitive nature made you a challenge - you said no sex, he says to himself "I'm good enough to make her change her mind about that" - and I think that is where the disrespect lies. And I'll bet he doesn't even know that he's been disrespectful, that's the worst part.

But you, LL, yes, you made the wrong decision for yourself and your beliefs. However, aren't you being a little disrespectful to God right now? Beating yourself up about this is not going to change the decision you made, nor will it change the consequences. I'm not a particularly religious person - but it seems to me that forgiveness is up to the Lord, and that being truly repentant is what He wants from you in order for him to give you that forgiveness. You are repentant and you know that the Lord can forgive you... how can you, then, not forgive yourself?

I will echo the others in the fact that you should get to a doctor as soon as possible in order to ensure your health.

T

You can't control someone else's behavior, you can only control your own, which is why we have boundaries. Boundaries aren't there for the other person to enforce, they are there for YOU to enforce, so you can protect yourself from harmful behavior whether it is intentional or not.

He didn't respect your wishes because YOU didn't respect your wishes.

If I understand correctly, this was the first opportunity you have had to enforce this boundary. It's a new behavior for you, so it might take a bit of practice before you are comfortable and consistent enforcing your boundary, even considering your current scare. Since this is a pretty big boundary, and you had trouble enforcing it, perhaps you might want to add a few more boundaries before the point of no return? You mentioned you should have walked as soon as it went beyond kissing. Do you think you could enforce that boundary the next time you are in that situation?

Terri,

Bingo! I think you nailed that one.

AFS,

.

And that's why I'm angry with ME, and why I am taking a good share of the responsibility. He did nothing wrong in his eyes--why blame him? It was ME who did the wrong thing.



I think being in his house made the boundary a lot harder to enforce. Why was I there, and not out in public, you're probably all thinking? He has this awesome big screen TV and we've gone walking and then come back there to watch a movie on more than one occasion.

Had we been somewhere without such easy access to the privacy and comfort of a bedroom, I doubt we'd have ended up in this situation. It just made it too easy and the feelings all came so darned fast that let go of everything I believed in. You're right, this has been the first opportunity I've had...in my life, actually...to enforce this boundary in this situation. When I dated others than my ex back in my teens, I was never at their houses. And when I dated my ex, I was at his house and in his bed.

The really sad thing that I just can't get out of my mind is that for one profound lapse in judgement, I may have just cancelled every chance I have at sharing my future with someone special. That really sucks, because it seems so unfair (look at the people who have zero morals out sleeping with people all the time, but they're on birth control, so when they finally do get a grip and settle down, they've not screwed up their life by inserting a baby in it at the age of 40 or something like that). But me...because I really had no intentions of being like that because it's not how believe, may actually end up suffering far more lasting consequences for my mistake.

I prayed last night...a lot...asking God to, if it was his will, not let me end up pregnant or with anything life-threatening, and prayed that I may still have a shot at the Christian marriage I so much desire. But I know in my heart that I was the one who messed up, and while he will be there for me, he doesn't have to pull me out of this mess. He is God--he has every right to let me experience all the consequences of my actions.

It's going to be a really long week.

LL

Well, all I can say is women who take it all on themselves for others behavior, will just continue to experience adverse consequences (not just sexually, but other ways too). I will say LL et al...you are easy pickings for a skillful predator....all he needs to do is tell you he is one...and then the burden is totally on you...this is so dumb, what makes women think like this anyways?

For crying out loud folks, he didn't change her philosophy on life...I suppose had he somehow convinced her that 1st date (or whatever stupid date it was) sex is a good thing...and they had mutually agreed to meet for sex...then yep, I would agree, no predation, just 2 idiots...however, that is not what happened...he SEDUCED you against your stated wishes, he VIOLATED your stated boundaries using your emotional vulnerability and endorphins (or whatever) as his WEAPONS.....we even have laws against this sort of thing (taking undo advantage of people..we can it fraud). He did all this to get what HE WANTED...how in all this is Holy is this not predation LL???? Get a grip girl, and get satan behind you, don't listen to his (satan) sweet lies.

btw, that was about predation, it in no way excuses you from not enforceing (easily enforced) boundaries.... you have a lot of work to do in that regard, not only physically, but across the board probably...as you noted in your marital description. Before you can find a worthy partner, you must be one, and you are not at this time very safe. You are reactionary rather than proactive, and that must change.

LL -

Don't be so hard on yourself. Almost the same thing happened to me. We are "wired" to be attracted to the opposite sex. That is why boundaries need to be in place. Besides having them in place, it is necessary to stay away from "comfortable" situations.

For me it was with a long time friend. It happened before I even thought about it. Now I don't want to see him at all. He calls with the old "we can still be friends" story, but now I know better.

I hope that you are not pregnant, but remember the statistics are that women over 40 have a 99% chance of having a healthy baby.

I am SOOO sorry to hear that this happened! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You REALLY have to THINK about your boundaries and, perhaps, write them down as a reminder as to what they are...

If you are not PG, that guy should be DONE as he certainly didn't help you in your moment of weakness...it's not he didn't know, but it's not like you didn't know either...

I REALLY hope that it didn't "take"...from the way your describe the "occurrence", I think your chances are pretty good...don't kill yourself worrying about because that energy spent on worrying will not help anything...you need the patience of Job until you can get your blood PG test.

Something my brother sent me that helps me when the emotions start running away with me. It may seem "harsh", but it helps me and I post it hoping ONLY that it can help you also...



I am not a religious guy, but I am pulling for you!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

WNB

everybody has had a moment of weakness...question is do you repeat it? I had one with xbf. That's ok.

Hope it's negative...just do a lot of jogging...supposedly that's not productive for those who want to be productive if you get my drift.

Knight,

I guess the reason I keep taking the bulk of the responsibility is because it was not a forced thing. He didn't put drugs in a drink or hold me there by force. He simply used the right words and the right moves and I turned into spineless putty. How stupid does that make me?!


And this is sort of the dilemma (IF I don't end up PG). How do I become a worthy partner without practice at it? I don't think sitting at home reading things has helped much.

Believer,

Yes, I remember your incident actually. I hope things are going well for you now. It's partly the incident itself that upsets me, but more the incredible risks I've set up for myself that could adversely affect the rest of my life. It may not just be one of those "Wow, what a mistake--learned from that--won't do it again!" type things.

WNB,

Your post on emotions is very applicable. I am letting mine run away with me. All I can think right now is how horrible it'd be if I were pregnant (and then I let myself feel bad about that because I'm thinking, "A child is a gift from God, how could I be so cruel as to say that the thought of having another one at this point makes me ill?")

I have had children since I was 20, and I raised them primarily by myself (my ex didn't participate much in their upbringing.) I was finally reaching a point where I was starting to see light at the end of the tunnel, where I might have a chance to experience life beyond motherhood (I know that sounds cold, and I don't mean it that way, but I truly do believe there should be a life beyond children.

If I was PG at 40 and it was my first child and I'd experienced my freedom beforehand, and I was ready to settle down and do the "mom" thing, it'd probably be wonderful. But that's not the case. I feel like I've been trapped for the last 2 decades in a sense (not by children but by the whole situation).

Okay, back to concentrating on trusting and praying and proactively thinking about what my options are.

LL

It doesn't make you stupid, it makes you human.

Okay, so it wasn't a choice you planned on making, but you made it, it still doesn't make YOU stupid. The choice may or may not have been a stupid choice. But again, the choice is just that--a choice--a decision you happened to make, don't confuse that with describing who you are as a person.

Have you asked God to forgive you of the choice you made? If so, then live in that forgiveness, as there is NO amount of guilt, shame, or self-condemnation that is going to pay for that decision.

So stop beating yourself over the head with it. *IF* you are pregnant, then you are, you've already said you won't have an abortion. Accept that you made a choice based on your emotions at the time and then praise God for whatever the consequences are, be it that you learned something about yourself and that you have weaknesses and needs and need His strength during those times, or He blesses you with another child at this age.

Either way, you can't go back now and change your choice. All you can do is accept it, and move on with the new knowledge, that your not as strong as you thought you were, and that you need to take other precautions the next time in your in a similiar circumstance.

Be it that you gain more control over your emotions and feelings and remove yourself from the situation before it gets out of hand, you just don't allow yourself to be put in that situation again in the future, or you make sure you have some type of protection in case you can't gain control over your emotions.

Yeah, you did a dumb thing by yourself in that position.

The question is, what do you do now? We all do dumb things. We're all incomplete, and have the responsibility to be continually growing ourselves up into more mature and complete beings.

So this experience and the mistakes you made showed up a major area in you that needs serious growth. That doesn't make you bad or insufficient in any way -- we all go through that. What matters is what you do about that area that needs growth.

And the big one that is jumping out of both your choices and how you express yourself here is your understanding and implementation of boundaries needs a lot of work. So the question of the hour is -- what are you going to do about that?

The first thing is make yourself a safe environment in which to get your boundaries problem sorted out. Among other things, that means no dating for the time being. Let's face it, anyone who does what both of you did, between the std risks and procreative risks, is not secure enough in themselves to handle dating at the current time.

Then you need a lot of practice choosing boundaries and holding them in a safe environment. It's clear you don't understand what that means, fully. It's not just telling someone what you want your boundaries to be, and it's even more than having a plan and sticking to it when someone tries to cross them. It also means not putting yourself in situations where your boundaries get pushed on in the first place. This guy was never worth dating -- he heard your stated boundaries, and regarded them as something to find his way past, not something to respect.

You actually practiced a good example of that yesterday. You didn't want the morning-after pill, and you chose not to see a doctor when you might face pushing at that boundary. That's certainly a wise decision in many respects. You really do need to get to a doctor no later than tomorrow morning, however. -- I do understand that it's difficult to do on a Sunday.

Paul told Timothy to "flee youthful lusts." He didn't say to "resist" them. I believe this is because there comes a point where our capacity for rational and spiritual judgement is so swamped by other factors that we can no longer trust ourselves to choose rightly. I think a good way of avoiding those kinds of situations is to set our boundaries further back from what we believe is truly wrong to a place where we could still hear the alarm bells ringing when those boundaries are crossed.

Lordslady, in your situation there were a number of boundaries you could have chosen which might have protected you. Instead you chose boundaries which turned out to be too difficult to enforce in the circumstances you trusted yourself to enforce them. So move your boundaries further back for next time.

Personally, my policy is to err on the side of pushing them further back than necessary and then adjusting from there, instead of trying it the other way around.