Yeah, I noticed that my minivan does not compete well with the Bentleys - hard to believe, I know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. But like you said, the women who focus on the car instead of what's inside are not the women that I want to meet anyway. So, I learned to use this to my advantage - if a woman asks a few questions too many about my car, salary, or zip code, I go looking elsewhere. The funny thing is that some (not all, but some) of these "fancy" guys have nothing more than the car, while I have a seven figure equity in my house... Oh well.


I agree with you! I have no qualm with her dumping this guy, I agree that she had a close call. But, she is the one who made it a close call by trying to make it into a "relationship" with someone she hasn't even met, and was already starting to have chats about exclusivity with him. She should have simply looked at him as a date, not, as she said, "prince charming". I know that it is a common trap to fall into for those new to dating after a long marriage and painful divorce (BTDT), but I will keep singing my tune that people should not put much trust into the initial "online" connection. Go on dates, have fun, and see if the guy is for real, but don't start having expectations or unrealistic hopes before even meeting the guy, or after one date. It will save lots of heartaches.

AGG

I wrote in a previous post that I tried dating about a year ago (one year post D), but decided I wasn't ready and crawled back into my cave. I tried on-line dating. I was shocked at how quickly some of these women moved on relationships! No wonder they get burned so easily and often. And I was dating women in the late 30s and 40s, who should know better. All but one woman wanted sex by the second date. One wanted sex on the first date, which was a major turn-off for me, since I don't like being intimate with total strangers. (where was she when I was 22 and thinking with the wrong organ?) And one suggested on the second date that I spend Christmas with her and her family in New York. Whoa! Slow down there cowgirl! The only thing good that came out of the on-line experience was that I met a woman who was for real. (there are a few). She was the only one who rejected my sexual advances, not because she didn't find me desireable, but suggested that I shouldn't be going there yet. Smart lady; she was right. We have since become great friends.

We will have to agree to disagree here that you shouldn't give a stranger the benefit of the doubt.

Granted not every stranger *should* be given the benefit of the doubt, however, under the circumstances of how Peachy first described the situation, I would.

Why? Because at that point I don't know the person well enough to know if they ARE lying to me or not. Like I said, I try not to judge people I've never met by how someone in my past. They aren't them, they are someone else.

Granted it may turn out they shouldn't be trusted (as in this case) but she didn't know that at the beginning. She found that out for sure after the fact.

Some people that I know, I won't give the benefit of the doubt. Why? Because I know from past experience I can't trust THEM specifically.

And based on what she eventually found out about this particular man, she can make a more honest assessement that this man is NOT trustworthy and a potential relationship should be avoided.

But had the man actually been honest with her and had actually gone out with his old Navy buddies, and her blowing him off at the get-go, she would have never found out if HE really was relationship material and she could have ruined something that *could* have been a great thing or not.

From looking at her first post he did tell her BEFORE they made the date that his (so called) friends were going to be in town that weekend...he thought he'd see them Friday night..

"He went to the naval academy and some of his friends from outta town came in town this weekend. **He thought he'd see them friday night** (assured me) and then he called about an hour ago to say that he is seeing them tonight b/c they never come in town and that we'd have to rechedule."

So based on that, I made MY comments, that she should give him the benefit of the doubt.

It could have been they were supposed to be in Friday night and leaving Saturday, but something happened and they didn't get in town Friday as expected, thereby causing him to have to change their plans...

but, like I said, she found out he was actually lying, but the way it was orginally worded, I think you should give the person the benefit of a doubt.

Ok...

I think deep down this guy had this girlfriend all along...and maybe was trying the old "is the grass greener" routine.

He had just seen his navy buddies the prior weekend at a weekend long bachelor party...in canada...so why see them the following weekend in atlanta? Hmmm. And he said he has spent lots of time with her since...well at least 2 full days I know of.

And it was I who told the turbo/coffee/dater man that I was not the contestant on elimidate...not him. But I got my message across.

I think we should give people the benefit of the doubt on many things. And yes, Atlanta is a melting pot. Everybody seems like they're from somewher else trying to get ahead $$$.

Ironically, I have only seen 2 bentleys since moving here. Not alot of them.

It's a wierd place here. At the same time it is a wonderful place for those raising kids, and also for the singles raising hell. And there's alot of transition between the two categories here unfortunately.

This is what I have noticed. And I don't really like it. If it were not for my son and the custody issues, I'd move home toTN in a heartbeat...where I do know people. Here, you pretty much are all strangers in a strange land.

Very few are native.

I'm still sore from the wreck. Very.

This whole stuff is getting to not be fun as much. I don't want to expend any time getting to know somebody and wondering if they're gonna lie or try to play me again. I just want simple and plain honesty.

As far as the honesty goes, if I were indeed dating other people, and they asked, I would say yes. If I were not, I'd say no. And would not ever talk exclusivity unless it was after knowing somebody a good while. Myself and navy boy have some mutual friends at the hospital he works at...so he knows he can't get by doing that. HE actually had the nerve to still say he wants to talk to me...why?

Going 2 pool in a bit to soak....feels good. And read more of Harry Potter and a cardio book. Studying...or trying I should say.

ThornedRose, I truly appreciate that you want to be so trusting. It's admirable. But believe me, this town is overrun with players of both sexes and one must grow a thick skin fast or get hurt over and over. I am male and a bit older, so I've pecked around awhile. I've never been one, but I've known several players; I work with a master. The good ones are so slick that a woman won't know she's been played until she's sitting alone asking what happened. Newly divorced women are one of their primary targets.

BTW, this "I have friends coming to town this week" is very common. Players don't like to lock themselve in on what they don't know will be a sure thing, so they always leave the door cracked open a bit for a fast escape. Women players often use something along the lines of "my best friend is going through a divorce/nasty breakup/mother is sick and is a wreck. I'm really worried about her." Then if something better comes along (one of those Bentley drivers, who is a bit to eager for some honey), you'll get the call that she must go to her girlfriend tonight; her husband has done something horrible/mother took a turn for the worse/etc... I've personally had this tactic used on me three times.

I know that you'll consider me cynical, and perhaps I am, but it is cynicism born of experience. There a newly divorced woman in my building, who has a bad case of bad boy syndrome and has been played four times so far this year. I think she has a learning disability. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Peachy, there are plenty of Bentleys to be found in Atlanta, as well as Masseratis, Ferraris, Rolls, 500 and 700 series BMWs, and every other manner of high-dollar yuppiemobiles. I see them daily. And AGG is right. Most of them couldn't scrape up $500 to save themselves.

Ha ha ha ha...Checkurheart...You are soooo describing my xh...he's all about impressions. And making them on 21 year old college students seems to be his game. The rolex, the bmw, mercedes convertible, boats, lakehouse, etc...is his bait 2 reel them in.

I just guess that maybe in my little slice of suburbia heaven there aren't that many. Tons of exploreres, navigators (what I used 2 drive), and stuff like that round here.

And yes, I can understand the mentality of the guys here now. And a girl has to keep her guard up. My antennae are now always up.

Must still say it was sad, that a guy would do that to me. He knows that I could say a vew things about him and it spread about the med community to say the least...we have mutual friends who work at his hospital...and I used to work maybe 1/3 mile away from it too...too many people, too many with something in common. But I figure, he'll play this poor girl as well.

My computer dsl is working fine! I will say the geek squad at bestbuy did a great and cheap job!

My back is a teeny bit better.

I think it's good to trust, but to find the signals.

How bout sending this thread in a different direction...the SIGNALS TO SEND YOUR ANTENNAE UP WHEN DATING...or better yet, ONLINE DATING WARNING SIGNS

Here would be mine:
1)the "got friends coming in town" line used on same day of date.
2)if after decent time of knowing the person, if you choose to do as I do and talk to them first, they go m.i.a. or have significantly less time to converse with you or try to email you.
3)If they seem too happy to want to settle down and tell you right off the bat that they're "not like the other guys/girls out there"...should be a huge warning sign. I remember my good counselor...yea, the second one...who said that when somebody either up front denies something or accuses you of something you can guarantee this...if you point one finger at somebody else, you've got four pointing back right at you! The old "I'm not like the others out there" is a sure fire sign they very well may be the worst!

Yeah and what some of these ladies don't know is:

1) The Rolex is the bottom-of -the-line model. $1200 and charged on a visa card that is now at the limit.

2) The Bemmer: leased for four years and he's missed two lease payments already this year.

3) The swinging condo: bought on an interest-only loan and financed on a fifty year note. And he has taken a roomie to help make the mortgage payment.

4) The beach house belongs to uncle Freddie.

5) The business card he just handeed you that says he's a VP of Sales and Marketing: fake and he's got a number of them, with different titles to impress a girl based on her interests. I used to work with a fellow who used this trick. On any given night, in the same bar, he might be a record producer, CEO or and Internet start-up, political consultant, or an Airline pilot.

6) How he can afford to wine and dine you at Bones: He hit his roomie up for $200 until payday.

Dang...I knew you were from ATL...

Most are not that totally bad though...

But help us come up with some universal, and not just atlanta online scams....

ya know...stuff they say...and stuff we should know as warning signs...

Like,
1)I LOST MY PHONE IN THE LAKE....

Peachy, I like your warning signs. However, I'd also add anyone who wants to take you on a trip, business or otherwise, when you've been dating less than 4 months. That means from the start of the first dinner date. I don't count the inital meeting for coffee at Starbucks as a date.
Anyone who wants to spend too much time together, on dates, online or on the phone. These fall into the "potential stalker" category or the love em and leave em.

As for online dating itself... I have no experience at all. I was safely married before that took off, thank heaven.

There are no "universal" signs of a player, since they are individuals. There are some general commonalities, however. One must understand that players are students of female psychology. The problem is that what most women say is their "prefect man" is exactly what a player is. They know this and use it to their best advantage. They understand that women look for qualities such as good looks, confidence, assertiveness, humor, and a certain amount of aloofness and naughtiness.

So how can you know that you may be dealing with a player? Ask yourself this question: is this guy just a bit too perfect? Men, even strong, confident men, still feel a little vulnerable and unsure of themselves when it comes to approaching a woman for the first time. So he should seem at least a little shy or awkward with you at first. If he isn't, if he seems a bit too smooth, his delivery too practiced, too good to be true, he probably is. If he seems like "everything you'd ever want in a man" after only the first date or so, he probably isn't.

Remember, while it is possible to find your heart's desire at a club or bar, the probability of this is very low. You may stumble upon someone who, like you, is just out having an occasional evening of fun, but more often than not, what you will find is the party boy and the player. Grown, mature men simply don't "party" several nights each week. Moreover, grown, mature men don't look for potential mates in these venues.

Here are some things that should always make a red flag go up:

1. When you are out, pay attention. If a guy is "working the room", chatting up women serially, buying them drinks, etc. He may be a player. This is especially true if the staff seems to be treating him like a regular.

2. If you meet someone you are interested in and decide to give him your phone number or email address. You should expect him to call or write within two days. Players will often keep a woman on the string, building her anticipation, and thrying to throw her off guard. They will sometimes not make that promised call for a week or more. A man with real interest in you will want contact you soon. Respect yourself enough to require that men show real interest in you and not just add you to their list of potential dates when they have nothing else to do.

3. If you ever catch him lying, dump him.

4. The cell phone clue: Everyone has cell phones now. Many people don't know or care about cell phone etiquette. For example, whenever I have dinner with family, friends or am on a date, I will always turn my cell phone off or at least put it into silent vibrate mode. I will only check my cell when it rings if I am expecting an important call (such as the office) that cannot wait. I will tell my date up-front that if the call comes, I must take it. I then apologize profusely for the interruption. Beyond that, anyone who calls will have to leave a message. If your new interest's phone rings constantly, especially if he feels the need to take every call, you are probably dealing with a player. He should be focused on you and not want any interruption.

5. The out story: Like peachy's fellow, many players will set up a ficticious scenario that will give them a reason to back out of a date at the last moment. Regardless of what others may think, the only reason for breaking a date within 24 hours is for a true emergency. If there is a possible conflict for the night in question, a gentleman will choose another night. Always require that the men you date are gentlemen.

6. Too much intimacy too soon: Players aren't dumb. They understand that most women are not going to go to bed with them on a first or even a second date. Some men may try and this doesn't make them a player. But the player will often initiate inappropriate level of intimacy too soon in the relationship. What does this mean? Consider that such intimate acts such as hand-holding, hugging and kissing are supposed to be expressions of affection. Do you really want a man hanging onto you, invading your personal space with intimate physical contact on a first date? These sorts of behaviors naturally evolve as a couple get to know one another and will always seem appropriate for the moment to both partners. The same goes for sex and there shouldn't be any arbitrary rules such as we should have sex on the third date. Players often have these "goals." So if you feel that you are being pressured to have intimate contact before you are comfortable with it, you may be dealing with a player. My approach is that the most intimacy that is appropriate on a first date is a quick goodnight peck on the cheek - or maybe the lips it it went really well.

7. The chase: grandmother used to say that a lady never calls a man. While this is admittedly and old fashioned notion, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with a woman letting a man know she's interested in him, grandmother's point still has some validity. Players often enjoy a woman chasing after them and will often have them call two or more times before returning their call. If you find that you are having to drive the relationship too much, especially after you've had sex, you are probably stroking an oversized male ego.

8. The waiting game. This is a later version of #2. So you have a first date and it seemed to go well. He says he will call. When should you expect the call? The very next day (unless he's told you that won't be possible). Players will often keep a woman hanging with anticipation for several days before calling her. This is not only rude (told you, I'm old school), but indicates that he has no real interest. If he really likes you, he will want to be polite. If he tells you he will call the next day and then doesn't, and when he does call, acts as if there is nothing amiss (no apology), he's playing a game, or at the very least incredibly inconsiderate.

There are, of course, many more clues, but you get the picture. None of these by themselves necessarily indicate a player. But you have to keep the whole picture in mind and look for several indicators that something isn't quite right. Again, trust that inner voice. Approach dating with a healthy skepticism. This doesn't mean you have to be the Ice Queen, but you don't want to be a mark either.

The player I dated had a different approach.

He called regularly. No waiting game. And he was completely honest about the fact he was seeing other women. I was fine with that for a while. My radar did go up when he kept telling me he was down sizing. I mean, how many women can you see at one time?

Sometimes not taking cell phone calls can be a red flag. A reluctance to answer the phone in your presence is not good.

Woman who suddenly walk up and slap his face or start yelling are warning sign as well.

I also think spending too much money too soon is a warning sign.

The exchange is a woman's company for food or entertainment. When a man has no idea how much he values a woman, large expenditures signal that he expects more than vivacious conversation.

Ah, yes, but you see, you wouldn't know if I'm not reluctant answer to my cell phone or not, since I silence it. The cell phone should remain a red flag to both men and women. I never give my cell phone number out to women I don't know. If I'm interested in a woman, I will give her my HOME telephone number. I use my cell only for business, only a few close friends and family have the number. Players do too, but it's the playing business they use it for most. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

BTW, my ex will ONLY use her cell phone to call me and only during the day. What does that suggest?