Fox, no one can tell you for sure if a marriage can be saved.

I can promise you however, if you can not calm yourself down and get on a plan, instead of reacting to your WS, you will NOT save your marriage.

..shes coming to file divorce papers it seems now; so what am I supposed to do when she comes? "Oh...I dont want to file; I want to work things out" Ugh, I'm so confused.

email her back and tell her that this isnt a good time...you have plans.

she's not coming now - we havent set up a time yet.

I am inbetween errands. When she drops off the paperwork, take it, thank her and tell her you have to review it. You w/b gettig back to her later. No date commitment. Be cordial.

So you don't have to commit to anything today. Ok?

L.

Alright - well, I know for a fact she will not leave the D papers with me. So - I don't sign them. Okay.

What then do we do when she comes over? Try to have a good time? Ask her if she wants to go out and do something?

What should I do about her birthday on the 28th?

T00MuchCoffeeMan -

What you said about a salvagable WW fearing coming back...

She told me one night in the car after I told her that I was changing and that I would be here for her as a good husband that she "Was afraid to come back because she didnt want to be hurt again."

Does this mean that my WW hasn't lost all hope like you had said?

]
"Go with the flow" bro. If you seem to calculating, it seems so disingeneous. Ofcourse you be nice, but DON't FALL ALL OVER HER hanging on her every word. Be cordial, be upbeat. If she is giving you signs she wants to "hang out", go with it, if not dDon't force the issue, this will just put you back into the positon of weakness that you seemingly go back to often with her.

With her b-day, do the same. You can politely let your WW know that yoo would like to celebrate her b-day with a nice dinner, etc..but let her know once, and then put the ball in her court. IF she really wants to spend this time with you, she will know how to tell you this.

DO you remember how I told you that your goal now should be to have your WW "want you again". It is tough, because you still want to force things. Be patient here. Now, nowhere am I saying that you need to be fighting for your marriage here, but IF THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT, you need to let her want you. As hard as it seems, and as painful as it seems, you have to do this. You are far more of a roadblock to your WW's affections than any OM could ever be.

Hang tough.

Sour....... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Was my e-mail about the divorce which ultimately led to her response a step backwards or a step forwards? I'm sure bringing up the divorce on my end was a bad idea; but it seems like its made progress as far as she is concerned.

The more I read of her foggy e-mail the harder it is not to just shriek in frustration.

I didn't even notice this the first time, but when she says "Oh, and since when did you start signing your e-mails 'a' - last time I checked your name was aaron"...I realized and laughed, thinking "wow" - ever since she separated from me, she changed her name on her e-mail from showing "Shannon A-------" to "Shannon A". Funny how she doesn't bring that up! Bleh. Last time I checked her name wasn't Shannon A. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

She hasn't replied to my e-mail yet, but I'm positive she will when she gets home from work.

I talked to a friend of hers last night; the same friend that never talks to me; and its funny, her friend has done a complete U-turn - I didn't reveal too much to the friend, because I know she could be working against me - or for my W; but I was friendly, and her friend actually did all the talking. She sounded concerned about my W; mentioned the OM and how the guy is a complete A-hole; when I told her about the contact she was shocked; she even said, "No offense to Shannon, but shes always with another guy - shes never alone." I think explained how frustrated I was about what was going on, and her friend told me that she couldnt understand it either; and that I was a good guy. Its beginning to look like everyone is in the dark about what is going on right now. She also agreed that Shannon is leading herself directly down the same path as her mom; in fact when I mentioned this; her friend corrected me and said, "No - unfortunately, she already is her mom." It also appears that my W has lied to me about things in her past; and although the past is done with, and I don't really care - it affirms things that I had suspicions about before. I also discovered that my W told her friend through e-mail that she had thought about meeting other people, but that she was "too afraid to" what exactly that means I don't know, maybe someone could interpret that comment?
She has made no mention of the OM to her friend; however, she has tried to talk about me to her friend; but her friend changes the subject and won't let her do it - saying she doesn't want to get involved in the situation. All I have gathered is that my W has talked mostly about being extremely stressed out from work, and thats pretty much it. Things get more and more interesting everyday.

I'll check back when I get a reply - I just had an extremely relaxing nap. I hope all are having an awesome night/day depending on where you are; God bless you guys.

-Aaron

Don't be suprised what you find out. I talked to my wife's best friend, told her what I knew, and asked her if my wife was having an affair. She dodged the question but my friend did say she knew more then I did. Of course, it turns out my wife was having an A. Just prepare yourself for the worse if it comes to that. Your friend seems to be trying to disuade from her, which may mean she knows more then she's letting on? While my wife's best friend didn't tell me everything she did tell me that I should move on and not wait on her. Which is exactly what I am doing.

Beware... (as I found out) 'friends' often have their own agendas. So take everything with a grain of sand.

Meditate on this, (Mathiew 7:24-29)

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Mat 7:29 For he taught them as [one] having authority, and not as the scribes.

Do not base your actions, feelings, thoughts, and especially your decisions on what others say. If you do that, you are being like the man who built his house on the sand. It cannot stand against adversity and will fall.

Instead, focus on God and Jesus and fulfilling yourself in Their eyes. That way you will be building your house on the rock. And then, no matter what may come to pass, your house will not fall.

And your W will have a home to come back to.

J

Bravo Dewt! I too, have been very wary of others and have only allowed one into my confidence. He is my brother in Christ. I have been approached by our "friends" offering to lend an ear if I wanted to talk early on, but through monitoring my WW's emails, I identified the vipers pretty early on. I believe all of this was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. He guided me to the resources that provided the knowledge. Aaron needs to be very careful here. He needs to seek the will of God and not the opinions of others. The rock represents the truth!


"you gotta have a good imagination,
if you are gonna live a life of hope."
Jack Ingram

Whull thanks, there. Not really 'bravo' on me though. I got caught in all these traps, and may yet pay the price. Any wisdom you see comes from the Word of God. I, quite frankly, am an idiot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Like any parent, our Father in heaven wants to bless us. He wants us to do well. All we really need to do is learn to listen to him.

J

Guys -

You say that this is 'working' and have given me all this advice; but why do I feel like I've taken a huge step back?

My W and I havent seen each other in 2 weeks now; we were hanging out before - now we arent even doing that. My last e-mail seemed to have just sent her over the edge; she hasnt replied to my response. Why can I not help but feel like this is doing more damage than good? I feel like I'm love busting all over the place here. This doesn't feel right.

I feel like I should call her; but I also feel like this will just make me appear needy; and I'm sure its the last thing you guys would suggest. I have this huge fear that she feels like I'm neglecting her again; the main reason she left to begin with.

I've been contemplating sending my WW a second email addressing the questions she asked me with Orchid's reverse babble - I reread them and really liked the answers..probably a tad late for it now though.

Who knows where this is going; I keep praying for guidance but I still feel lost. I try to focus on God and not this situation but its so hard not to.

You cannot lead if you are scared. Stop this. You said you dont feel it. Stop that also. She is the one FEELING...and not thinking. So guess what you have to do? Think but not feel (or feel a little bit).

This stuff is tried and true. What would help your situation is confirmation of an affair. You need to find a way to get that kind of intel on her.

In His arms.

I was about to send this e-mail to her; but I havent yet - it is full of reverse babble.

I don't know if an A is going on; and I have no real way of finding out. I know where the OM works - and I have a suspect e-mail address, but I'm not 100% sure; all I have to work on is an email my W sent her friend saying that she had feelings for this OM still and that he did as well; she also mentioned to her friend about last summer when we were fighting; the OM told her he would let her move in with him if she wanted to (he was in the process of moving but said he would not move if she wanted to move in). She said how upset she was that she didnt; saying that he waited for her and she came back to me. She said she felt like she was wasting her time with me instead of being with him. I love how she said that he is a family man and responsible - a gentlemen, the kind of guy she could take home to her family; which is why he legally raped her when he was 26 and she was 17 - also why he works at a gas station and he's 29...hmm. Also trying to pick up a married woman? Yeah this guy sounds like an awesome man! Same reason why her best friend's first words out of her mouth when I mentioned this guy were "[censored]". I also am working on an email I saw before my WW changed her account info which told a woman on her baby forums that she was getting together with the OM for dinner sometime the week after we came home and separated and that she was "very excited". I confronted her about it and she said it wasnt true; and that they were just friends. Funny, why did she tell this other person she had feelings for this OM and that he did as well? People dont start families with 'friends'. She also changed the pw to her baby forums after she discovered I was reading her messages. So I'm in the dark now.

I need to find a way to figure out this affair; but the only means I think is through my wife's email; I dont know the password; and the secret question which is probably something I could guess; is something I would have to change her password for - which would alert her to my presecence.

MBers help me devise a way to expose this possible A.


---------------------------

Btw here is the email I've thought about sending back to her.

Hey Shan,

I dunno if I answered all of your questions in my last e-mail so I figured I’d make sure I clarified a bit more.. &#61514;

You asked me, “Why the sudden change?”

Well, I wouldn’t call the change ‘sudden’. After long soul searching, I have found I no longer want to deal with a wayward spouse. I would love to get my wife back but NOT the hurtful character she has become.

You told me that you “thought we both knew it was going to end this way anyway,” and that “no matter what, you can't avoid me. you have things of mine at the irizarry's and we still need to go through everything at the apartment.”

Well…no, you knew it was going to end this way and you have worked hard to make it do so. As for avoiding us; you have worked hard to make that happen as well,. I’m not sure where all your things are, and, for that matter I’m not even sure where all of you reside. As for going through our stuff at the apartment, well I will need to get back to you.

You said you’ll bring the papers to me yourself so we can discuss things and I can sign at that time, and that you will file.

Bring the papers if you want; that is your decision –there isn’t much to discuss. Yes, I am already aware that you are angry and bitter over what has happened in our relationship; I don’t need to discuss this again. You already seem pretty set on what you want to do with this marriage so I don’t really understand what there is to discuss. If you want to talk about resolving this conflict peacefully and will bring my wife to the occasion; I’d love to talk.

You asked me not to send you short and impersonal e-mails; isn't that what you wanted? I’m trying hard to be accommodating but you sure send confusing messages. I’ll give it some thought.

You told me I am still married to you and that you deserve a little bit more than that. You also asked me to e-mail you back if it won't break off my fingers to actually write ya more than a sentence...

I may be still married to you but my actions have been going on the fact that you are not acting like you are still married to me. When was the last time you wore your ring? I sure wish I could wear mine, but you took it. This goes both ways ya know. In fact it does take two people to be married. By the way, my finders won't break off but you certainly have tried hard to break other parts of my body. Please stay away from my fingers.


And lastly, you asked me “since when did you start signing your e-mails "a"...last time i checked your name was aaron.... “

Hm..... you’re right. A is for Aaron. I assume that “Shannon A.” is for Shannon A--------? In case you forgot. Not sure if you even wanted to see my name. So far you have not made a lot of effort to see or hear from me, check your outbound e-mails; they are all replies. I again was just trying to accommodate you. You know you give very confusing signals.

Anyhow – I’m going to take off; have a bible study to go to with Meng, and afterwards I need to go run some errands.

Take care,
A.

"SHE GOES FOR DAYS AT A TIME WITHOUT EMAILING ME SAYING SHES TOO BUSY TO, YET SHE POSTS ON HER BABY FORUMS EVERYDAY??!?!?"

Fox,
I know this may seem off topic, but I noticed this comment and was wondering if you could tell me what you mean by "baby forums"? I see from your sig line you have no kids and one miscarriage...

In April, she got this idea in her head that if we had a baby, our problems would go away. I told her we werent ready; but she manipulated me using her leverage on my heart as a means of getting what she wanted; so she guilt-tripped me into trying to have a baby with her. So, since April we had been trying to have a baby - and she began to frequent the forums there; talking to mothers about becoming a mom. She met a lot of people through the forums and now frequents them to talk with people - its sort of like her MB...only all she ever mentions in the forums is babys and divorcing me. She isn't pregnant.

Hmm...well, would you mind sharing a little about the miscarriage? When in relationship to everything else did that happen? What affect did it have on each of you individually and on you two as a couple?