Fox,

""this hurts so bad because I dont know if there even is an A going on right now. According to her she just legitimately doesn't love me anymore; and its not because of an OM.""

Well that blows my intense, beautifully written, post to you right out of the water! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

She moved out June 9th because of....??

Was there any ultimatums before she moved out?..like "If you don't change XXX, I swear I am leaving you." Or "Honey I don't really feel the same toward you...can we do some MC or just speak to each other? Do some heavy communication??" which you did not do?

Or was it byby I am out of here. I just don't love you anymore. I will call you. If it was that, then maybe there is an OM in the woodpile.

Can you check cell phone bills? Computer emails. Are you close to her mom? What does she have to say?

Very strange. She gets pissed if you go dark.

You have got to suck it up and be a MANLY MAN!! No more crying in front of her. BIG NO NO. Indifferance would be good, until you find out the REAL reason she is gone. Unless you already know.

And what's this about quitting your job?!?! Wadsupwidat?

k

Patriot - thank you for your post.

Quitting my job was out of emotion yes. When we first started dating, and after we got married; there weren't any problems - everything was awesome. We were madly in love with one another and I would gladly drop anything I was doing to be with her; I didn't think twice about otherwise.

The real problems in our relationship happened because I was a Christian man with a strong view on relationships and sex/love, and she was a non-believer who "slept around".
She had a good heart; but she didn't think about decisions she made involving sex and love; she threw it around like it meant nothing - this bothered me extremely - and I made a huge mistake not resolving this issue before we got married.

Before we got married, she said she accepted Christ into her heart, however; I have always questioned her motives in doing so and wondered if what she said was geniune or a mere attempt at impressing me. Our roles have completely reversed since we got married; in the beginning I was a strong man with strong morals, I was strong in God and in myself - I was confident and had no worries in the world. She, on the other hand, was lost - she had just been used by like the 4th guy in 3 months for sex then dumped on her [censored] like she was a piece of meat; "used and abused" you would say. She was failing out of community college, and was in the middle of a huge fight with her family; one that for over a year separated her and her father's family from one another - a feud that I ended up getting caught in the middle of in fact.

When we started dating, I, in many ways - "rescued" her from everything that was going on in her life. I took her away from the men that were using her; I was in love with her who her; and not for the sex. I didn't even want to have sex with her until we got married; I made clear mention of this when we started dating. I would come home from college and visit her periodically; but for the most part our relationship was long distance - I was 400 miles away and she was back at home (my hometown).

I would come back on the bus to see her every other weekend and we would have a blast hanging out and just being happy with one another - things were heaven - I even remember asking her sincerely, "Can you imagine us fighting about anything?" and she laughed saying "No, actually that's weird...I can't."

Well...as time went on, coming from two broken families where we were both neglected as children; we clung to one another unhealthily. Although we loved each other extremely deeply - we rushed into things blindly because of this huge want for unconditional love. We got married three months later against our parents wishes - her father didnt even know about the wedding and wouldn't find out for a year. My mom and dad weren't there - theyve never been in the picture.

She moved back with me to school and lived with me and my roommate in my dorm room for 8 months until the semester ended and we moved into our apartment; this was the summer of 2004. Once we moved into the apartment things started to change. We began to get stressed; we were separated from everyone else because we had moved into family housing - we were both working and doing school full time. We were trying to pay bills as well as spend time together and the stress got to us. We began to argue about the stupidest things; she wouldn't get rid of her ex's phone numbers, she wouldn't stop wearing revealing clothing that brought unneeded attention from other guys - we began to butt heads on these stupid issues.

I would be like, "Why do you need to flaunt your body to feel good about yourself? Have more respect for yourself than that." and she would return it with, "I'm not doing this for other guys - I'm doing it for me."

Basically, my Christian morals clashed with her secular beliefs and it led to problems. In the beginning of our relationship, she always initiated sex; I had to practically beg for her to stop she was always over me - for instance; as wrong as this sounds - I lost my virginity to her after she seduced me (for lack of better words) - I had told her I wanted to wait; but I caved in after some well placed touching and naughty words; out went that idea. After this, I fell into the world of sex - began to feel what physically intimacy was like; however, in my eyes - it still was the highest form of love I could possibly give anyone - and in her eyes, although it was a form of love making - it was just fun. I had the remarkable ability to simple just touch her in a certain way while we were together and I could get her in the mood - for lack of better words; I had physical control over her; much like she had over me.

As time went on, she simply stopped out of nowhere. When I would touch her in places she would normally love to be touched and get in the mood; she would tell me to stop - telling me it "tickled" or that it was "uncomfortable". A huge EN of mine I have come to realize over the last two years is physical intimacy. When she stopped having sex with me all the time like she used to - I took it as her saying that she didnt love me as much as she used to - or that things were wrong. This upset me, and we would begin to fight over it.

Well, as things went on - we began to argue more and more; the arguing and some of the things she did and said to me that directly conflicted with how she felt about me put me into a WS position. I'd never really truly thought about it; but this was exactly what it was.

I withdrew from her, stopped spending time with her and began to spend all of my time on the computer with my friends playing games - at the time; I didn't feel happy with her; I felt betrayed. Most of this was from the lack of physical intimacy, I felt like she didnt love me anymore; some of this also stemmed from the physical abuse that had occurred earlier that year.

When I sit and think about it - I now know why I didn't change until she left...I've been a WS - only without an affair of sorts. When she left; I persued her; but by this time, she had become a WS - and I was now the BS.

A lot of what she did to me (sleeping in OM's bed) was a direct result of my neglect for her during my WS period...

As far as 400 miles away is concerned - this is because I have to go back to the university we were at; I have two years until I graduating and there is no way in hell I'm dropping out. She will not come back to school even though she has already completed a year - she says there is too much pain associated with that place now.

I've begun to think that a divorce is the only true option here. She said she'd do a separation but has expressed interest in meeting new men - in fact on the phone today, she told me to go out and meet other girls. (This surprised me...I just thought to myself WTF.)

Her mother has been divorced three times - got married when she was 19, had a child, and divorced because "they were too young". I have met her first husband and is he a gem of a man - 10x better than any other guy she's ever been with. Her 2nd husband was shannon's father - and the 3rd man she married (there were about 5 in betweeners) uses and cheats on her openly. But her mother has nowhere to go because she never made a life for herself; instead she jumped from one guy to another..something my WW has exhibited exact behavior in as well; this has me concerned. My MIL has been used by men her whole life and has a typical Man-hater attitude. The only times my W would talk to her M about me was when we were fighting; so her mom has a warped vision of what I am like in her head and drills the idea of divorce into my W's head. It doesnt help that they are living together now. My W's family's answer to every problem in marriage is to run away and find a new person - something else that worries me. If my W couldn't spent a year and eight months with me; who is a very nice man, and has minimal problems when compared to other issues like infidelity, abuse, lying, etc. I don't know how she's ever going to last with someone else. She thinks running away from her problems with solve things when she's just going to bring her baggage with her.

My W also has this unhealthy obsession with becoming a young mother - this scares me. When we were fighting and she was threatening divorce; she began to beg me to get her pregnant saying, "It will help bring us closer together; I think a baby will help us a lot." She never used protection in HS, and even her own mom told me, "Its a miracle she hasnt gotten pregnant yet". I'm very concerned about her - don't want to see her throw her life away...

Anyhow...

I am calm now after having a long day to cool down. I am stuck, because I don't know what to do. I would love to do a separation if my W wasn't using it as a means to go meet other men, and get free schooling - I know these are motivations for her. Before she knew she wouldn't be getting school, she was deadset on divorce; then I dropped the bomb and she flipped a 180 after crying hysterically saying she didnt want to end up without an education. I have been thinking about just filing for divorce and telling her I will be here for her as a friend; because I do want her in my life; but I don't think a marriage is going to work - she isn't willing to try and work things out. I believe still to this day; as well as everyone around me, that her only motivation for a separation was to keep her schooling money.

She says she values my friendship, yet she never contacts me, and everything she does and says to me is extremely self-centered and designed at hurting me. For instance, today when I was about to hang up the phone I told her I had to get ready for work (this was before I quit.) and she said, "Oh...for once." in an extremely bitter tone.

For the first 4 months of our relationship I worked, she didn't. I paid off her credit card as well as other bills; put a roof over her head, as well as other things. I have worked nonstop since I was 15 years old - the only time I ever took a break from work was for about 5 months during our marriage when things were incredibly stressful and I was so burnt out over it, the fighting, and school, that I quit my job. We weren't strapped financially - our financial aid was enough to get us by until the summer when I planned on returning to work. My W is extremely bitter about me not working for that period of time when I was going through withdrawal and depression; told me I used her - that I didn't love her, etc etc. Never acknowledged anything I did for her; nor anything she did wrong.

Everything has become my fault. This is why I'm not sure if a separation is even a good idea - besides; if we divorce; there is nothing stopping us from getting together again in due time if God wants to bring us together again. Yes I had faults in our marriage; but I also know that no guy has ever treated her like more of a princess than I did - nor has anyone ever given her love like I did. Her sexual practices and haste to move into physical intimacy attract the wrong crowd of guys - hence why she has been used like 5 times. I don't see this changing after she leaves me.

Maybe this is a wake up call for her; God will show her that what she's doing isn't going to solve things...I just hope she doesn't ruin her life in the process. Until then, I plan on falling back into the role I had in her life before we were dating; I was her friend and a mentor - I was there for her when she felt like crap, and let her know that she was a good person and that she deserved more...hopefully she will see this.

Another thing that makes me wonder if I even want to try salvaging a relationship with her is how remarkably when she ditches me; she ditches God. She told me today that she doesn't believe in God anymore (did she ever?). Either that was something more to pin on me and make me feel guilty about; or its just proof that the only reason she had God in her life for me and not for herself...

Fox,

Thanks for that post, it answers alot of questions.

""A lot of what she did to me (sleeping in OM's bed) was a direct result of my neglect for her during my WS period...""

I thought there was no OM. Your WS period is the computer gaming, correct?

How long was it when the sexual interest stopped on her part and till she moved out? That has the smell of an OM on it.

When did the miscarriage occur? If she lost interest in sex right after that, it could be expected.

I don't know, sounds like you two rushed it. You were a virgin and then "fell into the world of sex" which is very intoxicating. Then when those places you touched began to tickle and annoy rather than arouse, you went and played computer games and who knows where or what she went and did.

BTW:
""she wouldn't get rid of her ex's phone numbers, she wouldn't stop wearing revealing clothing that brought unneeded attention from other guys - we began to butt heads on these stupid issues.""

These are NOT stupid issues at all. Not throwing away her Xs phone #s, the ones that used and abused her tells me that maybe she wants to be used and abused. Plus the revealing clothes for HER?..is bullpoop. For her feeling the guys eyes on her.

I think she may like the bad boys and the dark side, from your description. Maybe you are too nice and caring and tender for her.

k

Krusht -

Yeah, I didn't think those issues were stupid at first either until she drilled it into my head that I was overreacting about it. Yes my WS period was computer gaming. I have never been unfaithful to my wife; there was one period where I had an interesting conversation with another girl friend of mine about what things would be like if we were together; but nothing ever happened and I confessed and showed the entire conversation to my W - she wasn't upset.

As far as my W is concerned, there was an OM once; it was a foggy period - it was during the computer gaming WS period - she began spending all of her time talking to a friend of mine; then began asking me to go hang out with my friends (wtf); then began flirting with him in front of my very eyes. When this happened, I got extremely jealous; I told her how much it bothered me and asked her not to talk to him anymore if she was going to spend more time talking to him than me; and giving him more attention to him than me. She called me controlling and said that she had the right to be friends with whoever she wanted to; eventually it became so bad that one night we hung out with my friends and the OM until 3 in the morning; she completely ignored me the whole night and flirted with him - she had work at like 9am the next morning (she ALWAYS went to bed early); but she told me on the way home that she was going to stay up on the internet (to talk to him of course - she told him while we were leaving she would talk to him). At this time I was so betrayed/pissed, I just said "whatever im going to bed".

As I tried to go to bed; I couldn't sleep knowing she was talking to him behind my back, especially when I suspected things already. I wish I had some of the old emails I caught her sending to him. She had been emailing him at a secret email account which she later confessed of - I read the emails and she was signing her emails "Love, Shannon" and talking about how good it was to flirt with someone, saying my only idea of flirting was when I wanted sex (This made me say WTF). She also said things like - "Yeah you're the kind of guy I could be with" and "I have to go - Aaron is coming." stuff like that.

Well, anyhow - I couldnt sleep so I got up and sure enough she was talking to him; I looked over her shoulder and she got extremely pissed at me telling me to give her her privacy. When I told her no, she told me to give her her privacy or else; I tried to go to bed again, couldn't sleep and got up. This angered her so badly she began to cry in frustration and started cussing at me. She then told me she was going to leave the house - that she was so pissed she couldnt stay in the same house as me that night. This was during spring break - none of her girlfriends were around.

I asked her where on Earth she was going to go at 4 in the morning; she told me the OM's house. At this point I got extremely pissed and began yelling, i was simply like "Are you ****ing kidding me!?!?!?" I told her to go take a walk and calm down and that we should sit down and talk - she refused. At this point I was in tears begging her not to leave - I knew it would destroy any trust I had for her. She went anyways; left me alone in the house - I was in tears, hysterrical on the verge of suicide I felt so betrayed. I didn't sleep one wink the entire night until she came home at 4pm the next day, 12 hours later. I spent the whole night imagining her and the OM having a PA - I had the whole night by myself having nothing to do but fester on it.

She came home and told me for 3 weeks that she didnt love me anymore and that we were done. So, I told her that I was sorry things had turned out that way and that I would move out and leave her the apartment. I packed up my things and told her I would spend the time until I left sleeping by myself in the guest bedroom. She ignored me completely during the day - she continued to go out with the OM against my wishes to "hang out" the next time she didnt come home till midnight - said they "watched a movie and talked." I later caught the OM telling my wife over IM things like, "Hey cutie..." or "Yeah...thats cuz you're hott".

She acted surprised when she saw these things; yeah right..

So, the first night when I went to sleep alone, she woke me up and begged me to come sleep in the bedroom with her; she told me she was lonely. I was like "wtf" but I went anyways because I felt for her.

I caught the OM in a lie that I asked my wife about - it was involving another woman - and my wife seemed oddly concerned about it (if she was just his friend wtf would she care?)...a few days later she began calling him a scumbag and magically fell in love with me again.

I never found out if a PA occured although I do believe it did. Both my W and the OM deny it - but why would they fess up anyhow?

I also found out recently that my W had been emailing an OM behind my back who she had had sex with before we were together; oddly enough though - this guy was 9 years older than her, and had already used her for sex once and dumped her on her [censored].

She was rambling to a friend about how he was so committed to a family and that he was older and "ready" for the next step - for a family...babies...what a surprise. She expressed in this email that she had feelings for this OM and felt that she was wasting her time with me when she could have been with this man. She noted that he had offered to let her move in the year before when we were fighting but she declined ....she said she wished she had done it. When I first heard this email, this was when my wife changed her email accounts and passwords; I havent read her email since. The last email I saw from her about this OM was talking about her getting together with him for dinner and how she was so excited; this was a few weeks ago around the same time she completely flipped from "A separation will do us good - I'm excited to be together when we fix this." to "Theres nothing you could ever do to make me love you again."

Here are some copies of the emails I have - this are from the most recent OM, not the one where she slept at his house. She said that she was never unfaithful, but this woman she was talking to is not a close friend; and I highly doubt she would go around admitting to people she's cheated. So I still don't believe it. DH = dear hubby (me) btw...they have slang on their forums too...

---------------------------------------------------

Sorry, it has taken me so long to write back. It's been busy around here because DH has a friend visiting for the weekend. Things blew up between us a few days ago, and I told him I wasn't happy with how things are going anymore. I told him that it wasn't that I don't love him (because I do love him), but I am just not happy with this situation anymore. I have already talked to my mom, and she said I can move back in with her, and my sister said that she would help me with my divorce papers when I figure things out. DH and I talked again and he thinks everything is going okay, and I have even tried to give it another chance since we talked, but it seems like the longer this goes on, the more I realize that I really don't want to be married anymore. I miss my old life and my family. Everything here is just all wrong for me. I feel bad because the last thing on earth I want to do is to hurt him, but I feel like I am just going to die if I don't get out of here. I don't have any resentments towards him anymore---it's not about the things he's done or hasn't done, but just about how my feelings have changed. I know in time, I can find a wonderful person to share my life with, but I am only 19 and I have plenty of time. I'm just hesitant now because I don't want to break his heart (even though I know that it will happen, which just makes me feel worse about it...) but I know in my heart of hearts that this really is the best thing for ME. And that may seem selfish, but in this marriage, I have almost always put him and his feelings before me and mine. I barely ever think about myself and what I want, but I really think that it's time for me to move on. I just wish I could do it without hurting anyone, ya know? Ugh, why does life have to be so hard and confusing all the time? That, and I have been thinking more and more about my friend, and I really like him (as he does me) and I feel the more time I spend here, the less of a chance I have with him, especially since he's 29. He's going to be looking elsewhere and I feel like I am screwing it up. He's already been waiting at least a year for me, if not longer. I told him last summer that I was leaving DH (which I was going to) and he told me he would stay if I did. He stayed...I didn't. So, I don't even know if he is still around or not and I am kicking myself in the butt for it. I just don't want to screw up my chances because he is a wonderful guy...the kind of guy I would love to end up with. By all means, I am not leaving DH for my friend, but throwing him into the mix just makes it harder for me to make a decision on what to do. I really do want to leave, but I keep staying because I don't want to hurt DH....what do I do??? Any advice? I feel like I am going crazier by the minute!

Anyway, I have turned this into yet another novel. I hope all is going well with you and Mike. How is your baby? You are getting closer to the 3 month mark, eh? You are what, about 10 weeks now? So exciting!!!! Let me know how things are...I love hearing from you! Talk to you soon!

Love,
Shannon

--------------------------------

I'm glad everything went so well at your U/S. No February baby for me though...AF came today. But considering my situation with DH, it probably is for the best. But I have to say, it's kind of a bummer reading about everyone's pregnancies and wishing it was me. I am just to the point where I want to get the heck out of this marriage so that I can find a real man, a "family man" that I can grow old with and have children with. My biggest ambition in life is to have a child. I just find myself growing steadily impatient. I really feel like I am going to leave DH this time. It's really hard, and I have never, ever wanted to hurt him by any means, but I think it's about time I did something for myself. I've already talked to my mom about it, but I don't know when it all is going to happen. We will see, but with any luck, I should be a single woman by the end of this year, and then who knows where after that. Hopefully I will find a nice man to settle down with and start a family. I have always wanted to be a young mom ( I don't know why) and I hope I can get one step closer to that.

Anyway, congrats again on everything! I bet that you were sooo excited to finally see your baby!

Hope all is well and I would love to hear from you again soon!

~Shannon

----------------------------------------

I'm glad your appointment went well. I can't wait until I get PG (whenever that may be) and I will be able to see my baby. I bet you are soooo excited to have an U/S!!! Can they really hear the heartbeat at 8 weeks? I always thought that was so soon, but I've been hearing of a lot of women who are able to hear it earlier.

It's too bad that this job didn't work out, but it sucks even more that your workplace was not being accomodating. It makes me really angry when they do this kind of thing to pregnant women. It's not that we can't work, but we are just a little more fragile for a short time in our lives, you know what I mean? They don't understand that you just have to be a bit more careful. Some people are so ignorant... It makes my blood boil. I hope that you do find a good job that will cater to your needs during this time. I really do wish all the best for you.

As for DH and I....I just feel like I am stuck in a rut. I care about him, but for some reason, I just don't feel that I love him the way a wife should love a husband. And I have felt that way for quite some time, but I always felt like if I stuck in there, I could cheat those bad feelings sometime and just be happy with him. But the more I look at my life, I can't help but feel like I am just wasting my time by being with him when I know I really am not happy. There once was a time when we were both happy, but things have changed. He gets in these moods after we talk and I tell him the things that are bothering me....he believes that after we talk things through that everything is alright. But, I don't feel alright! And I hate feeling like I have to pretend that I am happy to keep from more problems arising. I know I have to leave, and I know that I want to, but I do care about him and I don't want to hurt him if I don't have to. I don't want to break his heart, ya know? And it will just leave me feeling guilty, so I don't know what to do... It would be easier for me if I had support close by....a shoulder to cry on, someone to give me a hug... but I don't have that. It's just not the same crying to someone over the phone when all you really want is for them to be there. My family is 5 hours away and I need them more than ever....it makes it so much harder to leave when I already feel alone. I've been in situations before with boyfriends and stuff where I have wanted to leave, and as scary as it was for me to leave, it made it alot easier with my friends/family right beside me. So, in short, I know what I have/want to do, but am afraid to do it because I feel alone and don't want to hurt anybody. I know the time will come when I am strong enough, and I hope it comes soon, because I have already wasted enough time and missed enough opportunities in my life, and I want to break the cycle now.

Anyway, I always seem to turn my messages to you into novels, so I will let you go as I assume you are quite busy. Hope to hear from you again soon. It really is refreshing to talk to someone who has been in my shoes.

Take care of yourself Missy!
~Shannon

-------------------------------------


Hey how are things? I'm sorry that things didn't go as well as expected, but I am sure that everything will be just fine. I would love to know how your U/S goes on Monday!

Things are better around here...we talked, but the only thing is that my feelings still haven't changed. I think that I still want a divorce and that I want to go home because I know for sure that things are not going to change. It's just going to be a really hard thing for me to do. I don't want to hurt him because I do care about him, but I never think about myself and what may be best for me. I know being away from him would be in my best interests. I'm just scared because most of the time, I feel all alone. I don't have a lot of support around, so it is going to be really hard for me to get out of here. But things are going well on the outside at least. We will see...
Well, keep me posted. I hope all is well! Good luck at your appointment!

Talk to you soon,
Shannon

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Hey How are you? I've been doing good. There has been some stress with me lately though because of my marriage. It seems like one big roller-coaster. He just doesn't pay attention to me anymore. And yes, he didn't want to BD when I was fertile...and the last time we BD'ed was a week before O and he STILL flipped out about it!!! I just find it odd because he was really excited about it and our marriage was going great, so I don't know what's going to happen. But, either way I am cool about it. I've had my thoughts that this marriage may not work (I know I make it sound all happy on the forum, but there's a lot I don't say...ya know?) and my family cannot stand my DH for all the things he has done to me. I just keep holding out hope that things will work out okay, but the more I look at things, I don't think they will, and sometimes I don't want them to. I'm ready to be a mom, but I don't think he's ready for the responsibility. He can barely care for himself and he makes me do EVERYTHING for him.... I was just hoping it would be a good situation because I really do want a child. It's just the more I think about it, the less I want to have a child with him. So, I will probably be out of the running for a while, which is a bummer... But, I need to get my life together again and find someone who loves me and is ready for the commitment of being a husband and a father.

And, I haven't really spoken of this to anyone, but I know that I can trust you... But there is this guy that has been smitten on me for 4 years, and I have been the same with him. We have been friends over the years and I have always felt that I could tell him anything, you know? Regardless, he knows that there have been problems in my marriage, and at one point last summer I was going to leave my DH, and he (my friend) was going to sell his place and move... he told me that if I left my DH, that he would not sell his place and move and that he would stay behind so we could be together. I've never been unfaithful in my marriage with him or with anybody else, but I know that I have the same feelings about my friend as he does about me...and let me tell you, my friend is a total gentleman. He's the kind of guy you bring home to your parents, ya know? And he is really serious about commitment... he's 9 years older than me, so he's ready for the next step...marriage and family. I just keep feeling that if I don't do something and get out of this crappy situation I am in...I will never know. But one thing I do know, is that my DH is never going to change and I don't want to spend the rest of my life like this...

Any ideas? I know I turned this into a novel, but it is so hard for me to talk to people because DH never really allowed me to have friends here, and he always lurks around when I talk to friends back home and family, so I can never tell them what's going on. It feels good to just be able to tell someone. I feel stupid for wanting to bring a baby into this, but it's just that the last month was a really good time for me, and I was hopeful my marriage may work... but that's all it was...a good month.

So, unfortunately...no baby for me anytime soon. As much as I really want to be a mom now, I just don't feel it's right to bring a baby into this...especially with the way I feel about DH and my marriage. However, I will continue to post in the forum because I have met some really wonderful people (you, most of all) who I feel comfortable talking to and sharing experiences with. And I will definitely keep everyone posted on what happens.

Anyway, I never meant to put a damper on anything, so....how is everything with you? I cannot believe you are 7 weeks already! It just seems like time is flying past. Did everything go well at your doctor's? Tell me about your pup! I miss my dogs sooooo bad! What's her name? What breed is she? I really want a [I will not swear on this board because it makes me look stupid.] spaniel when I am able to have pets of my own (well, I have a cat, but....) because I grew up with them...they are so CUTE! You will definitely have to post some pics! I hope all is going well. I should go now though, because this message is really long and I am sure you are probably falling asleep reading this novel . But thanks for popping in... it's nice to hear from you. I haven't seen you on the forum a lot, so I'm glad to hear that all is well.

Hope to hear from you again soon!
Love,
Shannon

Fox,

""I realize that I really don't want to be married anymore. I miss my old life and my family.""

Kinda says it all right there. She likes the old (used and abused) life. Go figure.

I am at a loss as to how to get her back, if you really want to get her back.

How about staying separated, and you concentrate on finishing school. Focus on school and not her. Maybe this is one of those cases that Sting sings about..."If you love somebody, set them free"... Let her make up her mind.

Stop smothering her and crying and blubbering. She is looking for a man...stand up and be one. You have to get this attitude fixed in your head that you can really live without her...and maybe enjoy your life more w/o her. She will sense this and be drawn back to you.....or not.

But what you are doing now isn't working...correct?

k

Fox,
Krusht has a good point here. Go to school and finish your degree. Your W wants a family man? I cant see where having a degree does anything but enhance your potential as a family man. It is your last two years of school. Try to enjoy it. You can remain faithful and enjoy it. Get involved in a student group that reaches out to others. Find a way to be a blessing to someone in need. Remember the old saying......"I cried because I had no shoes, until I saw the man that had no feet"? As bad as all of us are hurting here, I guarantee you that we can all find someone that is hurting worse. Improve yourself by getting a degree and at the same time help someone else by being a blessing to them.
You know what? If you can do this, and your wife has a lick of sense, it will all work out. Of course there is the distinct possibility that by improving yourself and healing yourself, you will have moved on by the time she comes to her senses. Either way it will all work out.
Just as it seems that your W thinks that it is all about her and her happiness right now, it is now time that you put Aaron #1. Take care of Aaron and nothing bad can come of that. Only good.

I agree with krusht on this one. You answered the questions I had, but I really think there isn't much more to say. I have no magic fix for this. I do think, however, that if you start being responsible about your education, that is a good thing. Plan some goals and accomplish them.

Good luck.

FoxOr,

Okay, how to work through guilt...

First look at the realities--

What if anything did you do (abuse her) or NOT do (like not pay her enough attention) that contributed to the demise of your marriage?

Take ownership of those things. Apologize and ask her forgiveness for those things and forgive yourself.

Look at things honestly, even trying to put yourself in her shoes, if it was her who did those things to you how would have felt?

but guilt, is a strange thing, guilt can be misplaced or it can be that we are actually guilty, it's just a matter of figuring out which is which and working through each area individually.

If your actually guilty then again, apologize and seek forgiveness, and share with her ways you can change those things.

Well,

I talked to her again on the phone. We are through. There are no feelings of animosity; she was caring on the phone and sounded very concerned about how I was feeling about the situation.

She kept saying, "I don't know what to do - I don't want to hurt you." but then she said, "I think I know what I want to do; I'm just afraid to do it. I don't want to hurt you."

I've come to grips with what is happening; this is about her leaving - not me. Yes, I caused problems; but she already told me on the phone, "Aaron - I know you caused a lot of hurt, that is the past - I've forgiven you for that; its just that there is a lot of hurt that I can't just forget - All I look at when I see our relationship is pain and hurt; I don't even remember the good times."

I told her not to worry about "hurting me" and told her that she needs to do what she needs to do; whatever is going to make her happy - because that is what I've always wanted for her. She seemed extremely concerned about whether or not I would be her friend if she left; she was like, "Can I ask you an honest question?" and I was like, "What?" and she said,

"If I did leave, would you be able to be my friend?" She said it in a very scared tone; almost afraid to here the answer. I told her I didn't know. Although, I think I could be her friend; I feel extremely betrayed having her leave because I know I have changed - I know things won't just "Go back to how they were" - but I also want her to be happy; and if thats not with me, then okay. Her loss.

She wants me to call her tomorrow morning; we are going to get together and talk about things; she told me she got the separation papers; but nothing has been filed yet. She still sounds like she is afraid of divorcing; but has no problem telling me that "Those feelings will never come back" so that confuses me.

Its either

a) I divorce her and go back to school and remain her friend...if God wants us to be together; we will be together in the end.

or

b) We do a separation but I risk being hurt when I find out she's found someone else.

I almost feel like it would hurt less to do a divorce and expect nothing than to do a separation and cling to hope that might never happen. If she wants to meet other people, then she can - I'm done controlling her - I just don't know how to approach this.

She mentioned that "I was a good man, and that that wasn't why she was leaving; it was just a matter of what has changed in her..."

-Fox

I care about Shannon,

Right now - its weird; I almost just feel like I see her as a friend now. I want her to be safe, I want to watch over her; even though she is walking out on our marriage - I want her to be safe - why the hell do I feel like a big brother all of a sudden? I was married to this woman...

Oh...I also told her how my biggest EN was physical intimacy and explained how when I neglected us it wasnt because I didnt care; but because I was hurting inside...she told me she wished I would have said something earlier - I do too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Fox,
you need to decide what you want to do. You need to decide what is right. You have to deal with the issue of your marital vows and eventually your wife will to. It is the only way you will heal if this does end up with divorce. In my situation, that is why I continue to stand for my marriage and reconciliation if the face of a a full blown affair and my wife filing for D. I cant fight by begging and telling her it can be different. I can fight by continuing on my quest for self-improvement by deeping my relationship with my Lord and Savior. I can fight by having my attorney having the court date for divorce reset. I can fight by starving the enemy. The enemy, in my mind, being divorce. Remember, God hates divorce. The enemy uses hate and fear as its oxygen. I dont react to my wife when her behavior is controlled by the enemy. I pray for her. I ask God to rebuke the enemy within her. Do I know where all this will lead? Not exactly. But I do know that the course I have chosen and am allowing God to lead me on, will result in me having hope and happiness once again in the future. I dont know exactly what that will entail, but I am faithful that it will happen. In many ways it already has. In the end I will know that I did all I could to honor my vows. I have no control over my WW or the choices she makes, but I do have control over the way I respond to them. And that is what will enable me to handle whatever the future holds. I dont know if this helps you or not, I hope that it does. But from my point of view, if you do this, and you take care of yourself and your education, great things await you.

WCIT -

I think I've decided what I need to do.

My W is confused; she doesn't know what she wants in life. Its obvious she still loves me; but she doesn't know if us is what she wants.

I will agree to a separation - and as wrong as this sounds - if she wants to meet other men during it; so be it. Shan is terrified right now; she doesn't know where her life is going, as her husband I will be here by her side while she tries to discover this. I can forgive her if she ends up with OM...this is her life; not mine - and me holding her back in this situation would be unfair; I did it long enough in our marriage.

However, I will stay true to us, I won't file for divorce; I told her I never would and I will stick by those vows. For now, it looks as if I am going to be my W's best friend - which doesn't bother me - relationships always start with friendship.

If she didn't love me; she wouldn't have been so terrified asking me on the phone "If we get a divorce; would you be able to be my friend?" She was so scared when she asked it - she asked me if she could just ask me honestly; and her voice trembled when she asked me. I said I don't know, like I said, but I do know...I will be here for her - I love this woman; I'm not just going to abandon her when she's the most vulnerable in life; she needs a strong Christian man to hold her hand through this [censored]. That will be me. Whether or not we end up together in the end; I will be an example.

"I will agree to a separation"

Okay, I dont know what exactly this means. From my point of view there are only two legitimate reasons for a separation...1) physical abuse 2) mental abuse.....if there is neither of these then a separation is not in the best interest of the M.
In what I wrote to you I didnt intend for it to be taken as license for you to lay down and be run over. When I say stand for the M, I am saying that you be willing to commit to MB principles and that you ask your W to commit to those same principles. If she chooses to separate that is her choice, but you must let it be known that you dont feel that is in the best interest of the M. Dont beg her, dont plead with her. Be the rock! She is going to make her choices irregardless of what you do. Dont waffle in your convictions about what is best for the two of you. This part of growing up and being able to lead. This is exactly what your W is looking for in a family man, IMHO. If you have not embraced MB principles then I suggest you get familiar with them. A man without a plan is a lost ship. Again, you have no control over the choices your W makes, but you do have control over the way you respond to them.

WCIT -

My wife will not come back with me to school. The separation is merely meant to protect each of us financially. I will be here for her to do Plan A as best I can from 350 miles away. I will come see her when she wants me to; if she wants me to. If she needs a friend to talk to; I will be there for her. If she wants to use me for schooling; that is her choice - she can live with that guilt later - as far as I am concerned, it affects my goals none - I will still be fighting for my marriage, and I will still be finishing school.

I will ask my W to fill out the ENQ when we get together; she does care about us; and she does care about me - but in her own words: "She wants her old life back." I think this is more an issue of her not being ready for the committment - yes, I know I messed up - but I did nothing to merit divorce; the problems we had are normal, everday problems in marriage - and I am trying to work through this. I will give her her space while I continue to focus on myself while also providing a shoulder for her to cry on and a man to support her -

If this is setting me up to be used or not, I do not know - but at this point, I don't think I care, as long as she is happy - it won't hurt me too much.

"My wife will not come back with me to school."
Then it is her choice to separate. Not yours. Now, that being said, have you merely floated the "what if" of transferring to another school where both of you are now? Or is that even an option?

I have thought about it; however - why switch schools from my best possible option for school for someone who tells me she wants a divorce and wants to see other people?

Fox: I agree with you about school. Early on you explained to us why your school is the best for your career and financial situation.

I think your wife is being immature and selfish about that aspect.

Fox,
I didnt say to do it. I merely asked about the option. Now, that being said, I dont know all of the details in regards to your education. I do know that your education is very much a priority in your life now and in the future. This road of life takes many twists and turns, most of them unexpected. I guess what I am suggesting, is to float this idea of how you and your W might be together while continuing your education. She says now that the location is what she has a problem with. I think I smell a rat here. See if it really is the location. Somehow I dont think the location is the real reason she wont commit to working on the M. This might sound like a game to you, but the reason for doing this, is so that you might be able to correctly identify what is going on here. You wont have a chance at winning this battle until you know who or what the enemy truly is. Forgive me if I am oversimplifying this situation. But I do truly believe that you have to stand on the MB principles and continue to ask for a commitment to work on this M using these principles. It is your best chance to save this M, if that is truly what you want to do.