Yeah - what you did to your husband was the worst thing in the world, and you keep doing it.

You are exactly right Believer - that's what I am trying to say too - that WWW isn't really in recovery as she keeps being willing to risk things.

2334pem-HUH?WHAT? You have totally lost me in my own thread...please explain???

WW ~ every WS thinks they are "the exception", that the rules are for those "other WSes".

Every WS thinks that they can pick and choose the MB concepts, and bend the rules.

You weren't the first self-proclaimed exception...and you won't be the last.

WWW,
Your husband sounds much like mine. I have basically raised our 3 children by myself while he was working til all hours on his legal cases. I was very lonely and it was hard.
However, he was the one who had an A with an old flame from high school he connected with at a reunion (I couldn't go, I had to drive our boys to scout camp!). And it continued until they had a child together.

My husband copied many articles from Dr. Kalish to give to me so that I could understand his feelings for her. It was incredibly offensive!! It is an excuse for cruel behavior. I have read her stuff and she makes only a small side note about the dangers of "rekindling" while still married. It doesn't fit her rosy picture of the reunited lovers.

My advice is dump the crutch and don't use it to explain anything! Stand up and acknowledge that it was wrong(you sound like you have!), but don't use this "special and unique" old flame line to justify it and that it was different than other people. To your H, it is exactly the same debilitating pain as all the rest.

I applaud you for trying to make it right with your husband. Keep at it. Good luck!

WWW,

You may have found 'closure' but it was at your H's expense in terms of his self esteem. Tell us what is your plan of action to protect your marriage so that this never happens again especially now that the most vulnerable spouse to have an affair is your H?

TMCM

I was truly upset by some of the posts left for me regarding this issue...I asked for and expected 2 X 4's, however, I was unaware that 2 X 4's took on the appearance of personal attacks. Never in any of my posts have I said that the OM was to blame for MY A, I do except full blame for what I did, I understand that only I can control MY actions. I never expected what amounts to name calling on this board and I can almost be certain that Dr. Harley wouldn't do that in counseling. I came here trying to understand and learn...knowing full well that I will make mistakes along the way.

I know the hurt that the BS's have or are going through is immense. What I would like for them to consider, however, is that the WS is in pain too...WS's suffer from low self esteem and many other things in the first place which is what allowed them(us) to commit the act of adultery anyway. People that are sure of themselves don't have A's.

I would like to say thank you to those of you who gave me much food for thought with legitimate 2 X 4's (which was most of you btw). My husband has read all of your posts as well, and it opened discussion for us. I will offer you all this, though I have hurt him terribly, my H is one of the most self assured people in the world. He will readily tell you that my A did not make him question himself at all...I know that most of you will never believe this, but I guess that doesn't matter as long as he and I understand and know what's true in our lives.

I would like to add one thing that I did not make clear in previous posts...I did not need "closure"(I know that word is ALWAYS used by WS's) for the affair, I needed closure to my own withdrawal...I have that now and my H and I can get on to the "guts" of our recovery. I do not feel that our contact sent me back to day 1...Oh my God I was a complete mess then, now I am focused on what I should have been all along, my marriage and my wonderful H!

.... except for the fact that you called OM "a jerk" ....

All people having affairs are ACTING LIKE jerks. No exceptions.

Your comment referenced OM's character. Mine referenced universal affair behaviors.

Well I beg to differ - I don't believe their 2x4's were personal attacks...

Well I was a WS are I suffered from low self-esteem and I suffered through horrible guilt and horribl remorse which was painful - those were ALL self inflicted. What I did to my husband was inflicted by me and I destroyed him.

I am glad your H didn't question himself, you are very lucky - but because of that I wonder how well you will recover - if you really will understand what you did.

I know you needed closure for your own withdrawl...but in all honesty - that closure would have come had you given yourself time and space from OM.

And you are right - all that matters is what your H and you understand and how you deal with it.

These BS's understand the WS's are in pain - take no doubt - they are not un-empathetic people...but I have been the BS as of recently too - and the pain of the WS is different. It's self disappointment, it's self remorse, it's knowing you can screw up - while the BS pain is devstation by someone else, disappointment, anger.

I think you are still a little foggy and you still sound very self-justified to me. But that is just because of the tone of your posts. I could be wrong, as tones in posts can always be mis-construed - just as you mistook some of the tones as personal attacks instead of looking at the reality of what they are saying.

WWW

What bothers me is not that you felt the need ... but you felt ~entitled~ to, once again, step outside the bounds of your marriage to have a need of yours met by OM.

You have no right to do that to OM either !!! What if his healing was impeded by your action? He was leaving you alone, as he should.

I am amazed you don't see this.

No question I was acting like a jerk...I can and do own that...I'm trying to get past being a jerk by choosing healthy behaviors now...however, since no one here knows OM, I feel that I am the most qualified to make character judgements about him...

Pep...are you trying to give me clarity or are you simply trying to engage me? Is this just personal venting for you? I'm not trying to be mean to you, in fact I have read many of your posts to others and have learned some valuable stuff from them. Please forgive me if am just being over- sensitive as I am quite new in my recovery...

WWW-

I'm curious...what was your H's take on your need for closure? What did he say when you asked for it...how did he act, etc...?

My thoughts are that he did it, but wasn't likely very comfortable with the whole thing. I'd considered letting my wife do something similar in my situation, but in the end we agreed that it was a good thing that we didn't re-establish any kind of contact with the OM.

I am just curious if this was any kind of emotional drain on your H...

I somehow can't visualize this conversation:

"Honey, I think I'll email the OM today and see what's up. I'm not comfortable with the way we left it. I need more closure"

<H. laughs and says> "Ok, that's fine"

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I had asked the same thing before but got no answer. I would be interested to know how much "closure" Mr. WW got out of this renewed contact?

Here is what I see

WWW and her BH have remaining conflict in their M ... whatever was there before her A still exists...

and instead of confronting the home issues....

they go after OM (who is absent from their life ) as a way of avoiding necessary conflict that is long overdue

just a thought

WWW ... I asked you a couple of real questions about what gives YOU the right to interfere with OM's life after the affair is over ... I hope you respond.

So you mean it's ok if I call my ex-OW to find out if she hates me? To find out if she's doing ok?

This is great news! I'm sure my wife will be thrilled.

www...you aren't special, you aren't an exception. You just chose to engage in a very risky activity that showed great disrespect for your H. In that, you are no different from any other WS.

For a long time, there wasn't a day went by that I didn't want to "check in" with the OW for "closure". I rationalized that if I knew she was ok, I'd feel better about moving on.

It's all about the fix...we'll even lie to ourselves to get it.

Low

BINGO!!!!!

Now that you think he is a jerk...wait, that will die down...and you will start wondering again, was he a jerk because someone as standing by him, was he doing it so my H knew? And you will start to doubt

WHY? Because you haven't done NC at all. You got your fix one way or another. This is not coming from BS's either - this is coming from WS's JUST LIKE YOU - who also see what you are doing it totally screwed up.

While I said you don't have to do it the MB way - fine...but sheesh - this is lacking alot of common sense.

Okay everyone, maybe this is just the fog talking, but as I saw it, I wasn't doing my husband any good either by not being able to just let it go and move on...I can certainly see how this is perceived as being selfish AND how it is selfish as well...but I really wasn't getting very far because I was dwelling on why the OM did a complete 180 in 1 day...I do understand NOW that it doesn't really matter and that I will never get a clear answer where that is concerned and I will accept that and make no effort to find out again...I SWEAR...WITH CERTAINTY!!!

In answer to your questions about my husband's response...He sees and feels my genuine efforts towards bettering our marriage, so maybe that gave him additional security where this was concerned. Only this morning did he say to me that he knew that there was a risk involved to his recovery...I honestly knew that no matter what OM said I wasn't going back, but I did not consider how my H would have felt if the OM had said something about still wanting to be with me, for that I am truly sorry and know how selfish my need was.

I'm not trying to give justification here...I know you guys won't believe me, but I really do know OM (remember I grew up with him in a very small community) and I was 100% sure that his response would not be one of wanting to get involved again...explaining that would take all day, but I knew. My husband said that he was also pretty sure of that as well, which is why he let it happen with his support(he helped me draft the email)...it was Russian Roulette, I can see that and I am truly done with the OM...I have deleted all ways of contacting him(and no I don't have anything memorized)...I am really committed to my marriage and any support or advice is appreciated.

WWW, you have not "moved on" or "let go," you are here on this forum talking about the OM again instead of talking about recovery. I am sure you thought about his words all night long, because the taste is back in your mouth.

You may have deluded your H into thinking somehow that contacting the OM was good for your marriage, but that is pure de' Texas-size bullcrap. Contact is damaging to marriages and calling it cute little girly names like "closure" will not change that. You "close" something by closing the door, not opening it. We don't need to "know" the OM or know you to know that is ludicrous and see this for what it really was: an attempt to get another fix from the OM.

It did nothing to help your marriage, it put you and your H right back to day 1 of recovery. No one here is fooled by this except you, WW.

Hopefully, "this" time you are serious about no contact and will follow through. Continued contact like this is devastating to a BS.

www...

Putting the 2x4 away...

You said something about living a lot of life in daydreams. We have this in common.

Have you been to IC? I had a good counselor help me understand my "obsession" with the OW.

He helped me see that I was really seeking closure to my own fantasy...the relationship with the OW was already closed and had been for a long time. I had to reconcile my own feelings about it. I needed help to do this.

Would you consider talking to someone about this? Despite your pleadings, I'd be willing to bet this is not over for you.

Just so you know that your relationship wasn't so unique...I knew my OW for many years before we became involved. I do so lament the loss of that friendship. Our children played together. She and my W were friends.

Even my W sometimes wonders how OW is doing and worries if she is ok. They were friends for a long time.

But we know better than to make contact. I'm in a good place right now. But I know how fragile that stability can be, so I'm pretty careful not to screw it up. You might say I work at NC because I am selfish. I don't want to turn my own life upside down again.

Low