I know it's a common answer, and everybody on here has heard it, but when is it real? When do you know if it's really true?

My wife says that plus she's uncomfortable with me. She hasn't allowed me to touch her at all since she was with OM. A few hugs countable on one hand, but that's it.

OM has been intimate with his wife the whole time. Can anybody shed light on this dark subject? Not neccesarily for me, but for eveybody here. I've pretty much determined that I'm moving on. With or without my wife. I prefer it to be with her, but if she insist on doing her own thing which I'm farely positive I know what that includes, then she will be doing it on her own. I love her and will not love bust anymore. I just want to be friends with my best friend again. If she refuses to let me show her how happy I can make her again, then I know I can't help that.

navyredman - "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" means "I have found someone else to rut with, and please don't interfere."

It's right up there with "I need space" (ie: I want to rut like hogs with OP, please don't interfere), "I need closure" (I'd like to rut like hogs one more time with OP), and "I have never loved you" (and right now I'm enjoying my rutting time").

what about the example in the book red.......why not make her move out until the affair has ended and make her pay her way, put reality on that affair and its flames will be out in a heartbeat. plan b hard and make that call to harley. remember these people in affairs are not rational!

Sure, that's an easy example, while there's an affair, but how long is it an excuse afterward before it's true?

And really what does "IT" mean to "love you but not be in love with you"

I don't really understand the saying. If I love somebody, I love somebody, what does "IN" have to do with it?

I know I'm being dificult and it's kind of symantics, but maybe if we could understand what that saying really means, then we could confuse the people using it. LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Secondly though, what does it mean that my wife won't let me have physical contact with her. I mean it bothers her. Like she is disgusted by my touch.

It means she is emotionally invested elsewhere. She doesn't feel love right now and won't until her affair ends. They all say it while under the influence of an affair. Don't pay it no mind.

It's BS

I said it to my H as my A was wavering out - when I wasn't sure how I felt anymore. It's FOG talk. It means she is still mourning the A, or still in the A...she can't have feelings for you and want the marriage until she is done greiving.

Is she out of the A now? And trying to work on the marriage? If so - hang in there - she is probably is withdrawel, and doesn't know where her feelings lie as the JOY of her imaginary world is gone...

That's all it is - the imaginary world she created is her idea of "in love". She hasn't realized yet that love is love is love, and love is a choice, and a result of other actions.

If she is on the road to recovery - she'll get to that point where she realizes "i love you but am not in love with you" is a crock of she-ite.

To love someone is a choice, to be in love with someone is more of an emotional connection. My WW chooses to love me, but she is not in love with me on an emotional level. Your wife's lack of contact is based on her guilt and shame about the situation. Before my WW left she hardly let me touch her either. Hugs, mostly. I did try to kiss her passionately once but she pulled away. Your wife probably has the same guilty feelings towards you.

I'm not gonna make her do anything. I'm past the demands. She wants to move out, but that bring the issue of money. We have none. Her moving out would mean major trouble for us, which would me an major trouble for the kids, and we are trying to keep this as normal for the kids as possible. It's bad enough that I've cried with oldest daughter over stuff that is happening. She break me down every time. It's her big blue eyes <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> She sees right through me.

I know the living sperate thing may be the way. I tried moving out, but that wasn't the right choice. I didn't want to leave. I found her a place to stay for free, but she doesn't want to feel obligated.

Unfortunately it's easier to say which would you rather have your wife or your money, but the fact is. I want my wife more than life its self. I feel she gave me a life. She kept me off a destructive path. However, when you don't have any money to spend, and you're more in the hole than out, there's nothing to sell, no bills to get rid of, and children to feed. So we need money too. Very hard situation.

Hang in there a little longer. If she is having no contact, she will come around. Your wife is invested in OM emotionally. Chances are that OM was just using her. That is why he continues having SF with his wife.

I don't know, and I have my doubts. She uses the phrase I don't contact him anymore and I told him not to contact me, but I saw right through that last time when he was emailing and calling her. Literally she was not contacting him, but... she was playing symantics on me.

No she's not trying to work on the marriage. She says she has no interest in it.

Honestly before WW found this site, I love busted left and right. I have never been a short fused man and could take a lot, but after I found out about the A I became a freakin rampaging beast. Never touched my wife, and never would even dream of it, but I called her every nasty name under the sun. I did that three times. She's been using that as an excuse as well as other stuff too(before the affair)

Just recently with help from this site and people from this MB I have completely cut out the argueing and the love busting, and will continue to show my wife love and that I will take care of her if she'll let me. Is it too late? I hope not, but it doesn't look good from my perspective.


However, I really wasn't thinking about me for this question, I just wanted a compitent break down of a simple phrase that is used everyday, that I really believe has no real actual meaning except to confuse the person it's being spoken to.

Navyredman - Keep on keeping on. It is essential to establish no contact between the OM and your wife. Only then will she be willing to work on the marriage.

You are very new in this and right behind Gramn and Foundareason. Your marriage can turn around too.

I'm learning to keep my head high, and it feels great. I'm getting along with my wife. We haven't fought or argued about anything in three days and I love it.

As far as contact goes, if she wants to keep contact up, there is really no way I can stop her. She has too many options. I wish with all my heart she would stop, but stuuf happens. She knows what her contact means to both families. She has spoke with both the OMW and the OMM so she knows there feelings and she knows her effects on my family. I can only hope that the fog lifts and she will return to me the woman I love so much.

The fog won't lift if she still has contact. That is just the way it is.

through you guys I know, and it may end that way. I am crushed, but I must help myself become me again. I am a funny fun loving active guy, and I want to get back to that. I'd rather it be with her. I will never give up. She knows it, I think maybe all to well, because she always will have me no matter what. I don't want to be a doormat, but my love just will never let go.

I still stay in contact with his wife, but if he or she still talks to one another via many different means, I'm at there mercy. I already know he has none(mercy) and doesn't care about anybody, even my wife. That was clear to me the second his wife told me they were still sleeping together. It was good news for me, but I don't think my wife gets it. Maybe she does. I'm so paranoid of everything I get upset when her friend calls.

What else can I do at this point?

Just hang in there. You are a good guy. I'm like you, a hopeless romantic. I always said I would never give up, and that I would always love my husband. After 3 years of this stuff, I don't care anymore about my husband than I do about the ants in my house that I smash everyday.

But you are new in this. Just hold on.

NRM

A year ago my Squid was stealing our kids college money to set up home with OM, screwing him while lying me into babysitting.

She told me she didn;t loveme, never had and wished I could get an OP to get me off her back.

Now she adores me, is a great wife and mother again, and very ashamed of her actions then.

She may have meant them then, but when the fantasy ended she was left with the facts.

Have faith NRM.

”I love you, but I'm not in love with you.”

Hmmmm…during my fog and withdrawal, I felt very confused about my feelings for FOM and questioned my feelings for my H. At the time, I was also thinking I love my H, but not in love with him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> This was all part of the “fog” and my own lack of knowledge and understanding about the nature of love and the differences between infatuation; “falling” in love and mature love in a M. At the time, I didn’t understand how it could be possible to develop such deep “in love” feelings for another man while you still love your own spouse… I thought it couldn’t be possible to have feelings for two men at the same time. However, I have read and researched a lot on this topic and discovered the following (it will also give more insight from the perspective of a FWS):

People and especially WS’s often confuse real, stable & mature love (which can only be obtained through a long, committed relationship like a M) with the first stages of immature, puppy love when people “fall” in love and when hormones and chemicals are running high. These are 2 completely different types of love (mature & immature) and many people often expect to always have those “in love” feelings for their partner. They think something is wrong with the M if those euphoric feelings wears off. When the WS then get involved with someone else and experience those early stages of love & feelings again, they start to say to their spouses: “I love you, but I’m not in love with you”. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I thought the same thing during and after my inappropriate involvement, but I have learned and grown and realized that I was indeed “in love” with my dear H, but just in a more mature way.

To explain this better: Dr Phil once said there is a difference between “falling” in love and “being” in love... He said spouses don’t stop to love each other, but instead, love transforms and develops into something more mature and stable. To use his exact words: The partner in a long & committed R became the soft place to fall. This is so true. My H is indeed my soft place to fall. He is the only one who knows ALL about me: he knows all my strengths & weaknesses, he knows the beautiful parts about me and the ugly parts; he knows me on by “down” days and my “good” days, but he still loves me and accepts me just the way I am, with ALL my faults and flaws. This is wonderful and my hope is that all WS and foggy FWS’s will realize this!

The following is from a website link and very insightful:


Often the problem with foggy WS/FWS’s is their ideas about love and the true meaning of mature love in a M.

Hope this could help and give some insight,
Suzet

red
i think in the example in sa book the wife had to pay her way when she got the apt and that forced the light of day on the affair......"if you don't end the affair, you must move out" "if you choose not to work on our marriage, you must move out and pay your way"????? all thoughts to consider not necessarily the answer........but still worth a call to harley............i know for certain you can charge the call to a credit card.

keep hanging and reading. i am praying for you.

SUZET!!!!!!

Very awesome post! That's exactly what I was looking for. That definately sheds light on the subject <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />