That is great. I made my appointment for Monday of next week. I hope yours goes well. I am going solo to start with.

Good luck tommorow and this weekend.

Good job on making the appointment.

Regardless of how things may feel for you right now, I do think that your situation is much better than it has been for you in the past. And I do believe you have a good chance at recovering your marriage.

Steve was really busy this morning and we had to postpone our session until next week.

TTsi, why do you think my situation is better than it was in the past. I have confirmed a PA and I feel like my WW is withdrawing from me more and more each day.

She barely says a word to me and will not let me fill her EN's. She has also asked for a seperation, so for me things seem much worse, not better than before.

The only positive right now is that she is transfering office locations and hopefully in NC with OM. I say hopefully because I don't know for sure and don't really see symptoms of withdrawal with the exception of the first few days of NC.

If her withdrawing from me more and more each passing day and not letting me meet her EN's that I was allowed to meet only a few weeks ago is a symptom of withdrawal, then maybe things will get better.

Most of the time she seems happy with the kids, but I don't see any real withdrawal symptoms.

She is very cold and distant.

I find she is starting to do things to spite me where she wouldn't do this before.

She barely looks at me now and there is not physical contact at all between us.

Last night I asked her a question and she started making some sarcastic comments that I didn't appriciate so I asked her to backup her comments. She said "are you trying to start a fight"

Then she said "you are not genuine" when I aksed about her day and said she doesn't want to talk to me.

I don't think I can put up with this much longer. I may have to just keep away from her to avoid the pain and hurt.

Her lies and actions have caused her family extreme pain and hurt, but she doesn't care at all. She doesn't seem to care if she looses the realtionship with her family. She has stopped all contact with our old friends and aquaintances and she finds comfort with her "new" friends.

She is more interested in buying clothes for herself than buying for her kids.

She goes to work early comes home relatively late (around 7:00), spends time excercising and lying on the couch. So there isn't much quality time with the kids and then she gets upset that I am having a good time with the kids where she feels I am using them against her. This is what I'm dealing with right now.

She's spending all her money buying nice clothes for herself, she's consistently coming home a good deal late from work, she's STILL working with OM, she's not showing any signs of withdrawl (other than what appeared to be the normal signs at the beginning...then the symptoms of withdrawl IMMEDIATELY disappeared again), she's STILL deep in the fog, she's still hateful towards you and blaming you for ALL that's wrong, she's still not showing any remorse or regret, she's STILL actually emotionally withdrawling from anyone who doesn't support her choices...

WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU NOT BE FIRMLY CONVINCED AT THIS POINT THAT THE AFFAIR IS STILL GOING FULL SWING?!?!?!

It sounds to me like she needs a serious wake up call. Plan B with a vengeance. Wonder what the real experts view on this is?

I think OWL is on the money. This sounds just like my WW
That is still having her affair. She still lies to my face and tells me she is not seeing him. Then I catch them together every time I go look.
Tracking devices work well and are worth the investment. he he

ok, Hope, first off, you must understand that this is all about the OM. An affair is ALWAYS about the OP just as alcoholism is always about alcohol. Saying that it is not about the OM is a classic WS trick to divert the subject frm the real issue and make it look like the problems are stemming from "other" issues. But can you think of any "other issue" that is as ruinous to a marriage as an affair?

Of course not.

I do suspect that she is still in the affair with the OM. But you need to confirm this. It will be easier to confirm, I hope, once they don't work together.

And lastly, she does not need your permission to seperate. She is a big girl with big girl shoes and car keys and likely is clever enough to find the front door. So, if she wants to "seperate," then wish her well, help her carry her bags to the car and say good bye. But, that is the most help you give her.

DO NOT agree to an "in-house" pretend seperation. That is not a seperation, that is a ruse designed to allow her to run around like a single woman frm the comfort of her home. You don't even want to faciliate that. So make sure that she knows you will not agree to any pretend seperations, are not going to help her seperate and will not allow her to rip your kids from their home so she can be an alley cat in heat. Let her know that you are firm on that point.

It is important that you stand firm and make sure she understands that destroying your family will not be easy and will be fought by you all the way.

And lastly, Hope, exposure is still a viable option for you. I am very concerned that you have been brainwashed by that useless MC into believing that exposure is wrong, or harmful. That is nonsense. Your W is mad about your exposure because you interfered with her affair. That is what you are supposed to do. That is what you have to do in order to save your marriage. You marriage can survive her bitchiness and her anger, but it can't survive her affair.

If exposing the affair to her family and her boss causes more problems, that is good, because that means conflict in the affair. And conflict in the affair is what kills it. But, first find out if she is still in contact. I suspect she is, which is why she wants to seperate.

Bravo MElody!

Expose thy wayward wife man!

Clothes, late returning from work? exercising?

that is an affair my dear.

she is still in C with OM.

In light of the nearing day of halloween, I will make my comparison of a WS and OP to a vampire!

The OP/WS is like the undead. Walks and wanders around at night. Slipping into other people's bedrooms...glazed looks in eyes. Mortal enemy of OP/WS is LIGHT OF DAY! They truly hate the exposure! It reeks worse to them than garlic! Shoots through the fog like a silver bullet! Makes the "batty" parts of themself slowly begin the painful transformation back into a normal person! The truth to them is like light of day or holy water! If you don't expose and make the "undead" see the light of day...they will just suck the life outta you and your family.

HTW,

You are probably one of the nicest guys I’ve ever read about. I hate that you are going through this.

From the perspective of a fellow man, and BS, I think she likely is still in contact with the OM.

I’d be interested to know my own W’s opinion on this.

Has she said anything at all that is remorseful?
Has she said anything hopeful at all?
Does she display any sentiments of reconciliation?
Even a suggestion of one?

Right now she should be in a state where she should be trying to rationalize her decision of going NC with OM. You haven’t suggested one iota that she’s done that. From what I’ve read she’s saying: “I’m a caged animal with no food and water, I’m desperate.”

It’s all about you here. She’s the one imposing HEL* on your life and the lives of your children. She's had her turn at the watering hole.

What is good for you HTW?

If you expose completely to everyone period and she really is in NC then you have told the truth. She may be angry as all get out, but she’ll still have choices to make. Choices about weather to stay or leave.

If you don’t expose then she’ll have the same choices, but couldn’t they be more destructive choices for you? Time is on her side. She could be scheming to drop that A-bomb on you and take the kids, house, funds, alimony and yes; then be with the OM! All in one felled swoop. My XW left for a life with her OM. It bombed for her. (insert reverberating evil laughter here)

This would not be good for HTW!

Since you have exposed your methods of surveillance to her, she is now capable/likely of running more deep and silent than ever before.

As your fellow BS here, I would love to see you protect yourself! Do what is good for HTW and your family. Really weigh the consequences of exposure in your mind and the associated risks of doing/not doing this. But like a previous poster said. You have to be comfortable with it.

Besides, shouldn’t everyone know that there are consequences for their choices in life? Lessons learned are lessons earned.

One thing that BS’s say over and over here is that they should have trusted their gut instincts! What is yours telling you right now?

Disclaimer: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I am NOT an expert by any means. I never had to do exposure in the manner that you have. I did something similar, but it was all instinctive. I was flying by the seat of my pants with no MB input at all and my situation was quite different.

Following MB rules of engagement: there can be no recovery until there is confirmed REAL NC. I know she wrote the NC letter, but I'm very concerned that she's still in contact with OM.

Finally, to borrow bob Pure’s line…
“If you weren’t afraid what would you do?”

Best of luck,
Plank.

HTW,

I am really sorry that you have to deal with all of that. It sucks and there isn't any other nice way to say it. I thing the posters are right on the money. She is acting like a cheater through and through. Can you hire an investigator? Get hard evidence that she can't deny. Then expose your tail off. Her family is supporting your marriage and are going to be a huge benefit for you in getting this affair to end. She WILL be pi55ed. Know it and accept it. She may leave. She may say the most hateful things you have ever heard. Think of it like throwing water on a wildfire that is threatening to consume you family.

I am praying hard for you, HTW. I know that you are in a lot of pain and the emotions are raging through you right now. Take care of you and your sweet children.

Loni

Thanks everyone for all your support during this tough time.

I will take all of your advice into consideration, however I would like to see what Steve Harley has to say about my situation tomorrow.

More seperation talk this weekend coming out of my WW mouth and she was upset that I said I would not be moving out of our house. She even asked how I could affort to carry our house on our own to which I replied "I won't have a problem taking care of it".

She then said "how are the kids going to feel when there mom moves out...they will feel like I'm abandoning them"
No...you don't say!!! I felt like saying.

Then yesterday she drops this "Seperation/Divorce Guide" from her EAP that really pissed me off. I through it across the room and had some choice words.

Then last night at bedtime she says to me "I'm sorry for hurting you, I don't mean to hurt you but I just want to be honest with you, there is no middle ground here".

She is actually sorry for something for the first time in a long time. I never thought I would hear her be sorry about anything again. Maybe there is a heart somewhere inside her.

Then she said "I know I've been mean to you at times but I feel like you are being mean to me". When I asked her to give me an example she said "when you said you won't sell the house and split the assets".

So she feels she has been mean to me "at times". Too bad she can't see things through my eyes.

So I am being mean for not wanting to breakup my family and marriage. Boy, she really grasping at staws.

Not a good weekend really and the only positive was that I kept my LB'ing down to a minimum given the circumstances.

Good Morning HTW,

Wow the fog is thick at your house. When she said that the kids would feel abandoned when she leaves sounds like an occasional clearing of the fog. I wonder if leaving a little "reading material" around might be in order. Have you read what Dr. Harley says about what kids go through in a divorce?

Loni

That book "the Unexpected Legacy of Divorce" I'd mentioned is an eye-opener.

HTW,

FYI, praying for you this morning. Hope all is well and your appt with Harley goes good.

WOL

You could ... quietly approach him at work and supply him with your phone number, tell him this will save you both some embarrassment. That will also effect your wife, I'm sure, that's bordering on exposure right there!

IMO, marriage is a life-long commitment ... should she choose to save the marriage I would think the right thing to do would be to leave that job and seek another. Work out a budget, it's only temporary. Sure, jobs are hard to find; but saving your marriage and getting rid of the OM is even harder, but well worth it if you can. The job is trivial in the bigger picture, IMO.

After that, I'd take it one step at a time. Keep posting, do the Q & A's, all the exercises, get feedback, etc. Stay in the moment.

And ... forgive me if I'm posting about a matter that has already been addressed! I see now that I missed a lot of feedback. Sorry.

Good morning everyone and thanks for all the feedback.

I spoke with SH this morning and he gave me some advice on dealing with my current situation that included the following:

1) Insist to my WW that my goal is for our childern to have parents who are in love with each other

2) Let my WW know that there is a way for us to be happy together

3) Try to influence WW to talk to SH

4) Deflate seperation talk by suggesting that I feel there is a good possibility of having a happy marriage and will have a difficult time agreeing to a seperation before leaving every stone unturned

5) Hold off on exposure for now

He basically said to be a broken record and to try and slowly chip away at her.

She wants to justify herself by focusing on all the negatives.

So I will keep Plan A going and try to get my WW into a session with SH. This may take some trying since she has already told me she doens't want to to it.

I will keep trying.

HTW,

Great job and sounds like your appt went well. Keep up Plan A and the broken record thing.

Thanks, that's a great message! I plan to borrow it for my own situation.

I am so happy that you got to talk with SH. I am considering that although it might be an LB to spend the money on counseling when our insurance is paying for the MC we are seeing now.

I am still sending you and your kids lots of prayers and cyber hugs.

God Bless,
Loni

I DID borrow it for my situation. Wow it seems to have really softened her heart. Thank you.

I'm assuming you used the one about the kids having parents who are in love?

That is great to hear. I hope you WW softens her heart and makes a real effort at recovery, God know you deserve it.

Don't you wish you could just rewind time and erase all of this crap. It all seems like a bad dream.

Too all that are having trouble and want to give up, DON'T!!!

Be a broken record to you WS and try to chip away at them.

Good luck everyone