Just checking in to see how things are going <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey Dorry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh, I don't even know how to answer your question. It's the same roller coaster ride that we all experience. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

The images are bad today. Well not the images, but what's behind them - my Mrs. Wonk was with another man. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sure, I'm not perfect. I had my own A. Yet, just because I can understand the situation doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. And today, it hurts. I'll be able to get over the images - they don't bother me as much as I once thought they would. I just can't deal with the A itself today.

You see, I was always a bit on the jealous side. I'm one of those guys who doesn't want to know my wife's pre-marital history. I just don't. Mrs. Wonk would never call me the possessive type. But jealous? Sure. That's my own insecurities coming out. And her A just magnified those insecurities. Now, forever, I will know that Mrs. Wonk experienced emotional and physical love with someone else after she was with me. That's hard for me to take today.

Also, I am mad at myself. I wish that I had heeded the warning signs and put my foot down. I wish I had snooped more. I wish I had caught them - just so I could have had the satisfaction of throwing them both out the front door (without opening it first <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />). I am mad at myself for allowing the situation to get worse because all it did was get me even more depressed and led me to "need" to find solace with the OW. I'm just angry at myself for not doing things differently. But the scary thing is, if it had not been for my A, I might have left her for her A and never looked back. Really, the only thing that keeps my anger and rage in check is the fact that I experienced the same kind of situation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Ugh, Dorry.

Any body else can chime in, too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Well - if you read my old posts you can see i saw it coming with Sprint...and there was nothing I could do - he asked me for a seperation so he wouldn't be a cheater...he didn't realize that because he was planning a future with OW BEFORE he told me it was over and asked me for the seperation, he was in an EA...and less then 2 weeks after asking for a seperation, before it was even legalized - he made it a PA. Luckily the PA part was a wake up call for him and he realized all along he did want our marriage.

For 7 months before Sprint decided he wanted out (or was pulled out by an OW) he had the same problem. In SF it was now something that wasn't just for him, as I had it with OM...he struggled to find things new that he could be the "first" to do with me, or just for him. It made sex very uncomfortable and scary at times as it wasn't like him. He even propositioned me for a threesome closer to seperation day, and when I rejected the idea - he told me - see - I don't listen to him or consider him. HA!

Don't be mad at yourself - you saw the warning signs, but just like EVERY other BS on here...you were hoping your gut and the signs were wrong. And in all honesty - like all WS, she would have found a way around your attempts to stop you. I found my way around Sprints attempts, and Sprint found his way around mine...Sprint now realizes the frame of mind WS's are in - the amount of lying and disjust they do...

Funny you should say if not for your A - as much as I hate that Sprint had an A too, at the same time, he was falling deeper and deeper into a pit...and then he met her. And fell in love with her...but soon realized he did like who he was, and being with her, he was having to change who he was as who he is has a big part to do with me and our 8 years together. He realized that while is intentions were to replace and forget about me, he was replacing and forgetting about himself...and couldn't forget me.

Since I have been back 4 weeks now, he has mentioned 2 times where he has had a rough minute - thinking about how we got into this mess...and he realized he started to feel down. So he immediately refocued on the fact that we are both GENUINELY here and wanting to try and focus on the future...took him a bit - but it worked.

And it's the same thing I do - 4 weeks ago - every SECOND I was bombarded with the thoughts and the hurt of his A and his leaving...didn't matter that I had one...while I can understand, it didn't make it hurt less because I did it too - it hurt terribly - because HE KNEW what the A did to us, and he still had one!!! I was so angry and disappointed that as I continued to change and put up with his anger and distance, and FIGHT for the marriage post my A, that he went and had one - knowing what it does to the person that is trying so hard.

But 4 weeks later - now...I get bombared once or twice a day. How did I get there? I FOUGHT with myself. I rationalized it. My H is here telling me everyday he loves me and he is happy I am back. He means it too - his actions show it. I haven't gotten an I'm sorry in those words, but his actions and the things he says show me he is very sorry...so everytime I get bombarded with thoughts and disappointment and anger, I refocus. I FORCE myself to look at the positives - what did he do for me today? How is my own progress going, what are our future plans, what can we do tonight...

For the first little bit it took me hours to re-focus...but now I can do it in minutes or seconds. I am sure I will hit a point where it will take me hours again, but if I dwell and obsess then we will be where we were for the past 8 months but in role reversal - now me being bitter, angry and hurt...and him trying to make amends - I dont want to go through that - and I don't wnat him to go through what I went through..

Don't be angry at yourself. What's DONE is DONE, and sitting there thinking if the shoulda's coulda's and what if's are SOO unproductive.

I don't know Mrs/ Wonk...but it sounds like based of your posts - she is remorseful and there trying to make it work. She also sounds like she too is hurting from your A. Both of you should focus on the fact that you have been given a second chance to start over - to make things right. To lay down a foundation that will make BOTH of you happy in the long run.

Are you in IC? Do you have someone close to you (male) that you can talk to and get all the anger feelings out? You don't want to supress them but leaving them in there to dwelll won't get you very far!!!

I wanted to add too - Sprint was so focuses on what his definition of commitement was, adn that the one dream he had in his life - to remain faithful and grow old together, that he couldn't see anything else - couldn't dream new dreams, couldn't see my new commitment level..It was blinding to him.

He doesn't know what changed, but he realized he was basing his dream on his definition of commitment and his definition of commitment was faithfulness...and he realized that isn't just what comittment is, and that fact that I have made tremendous changes, that I stuck through all the crap, and even after he left and had an A, I STILL wanted to work through it all, he realized that is true comittment. I failed yes, but I can recommit and make it work. He realized along with that - he can dream new dreams. His dream isn't the same - but it is a dream to grow old with me and have a happy life with me.

It took him 8 long months and his own A to get to that realization and he isn't even sure how he got there.

My point is...you can dream new dreams with Mrs. Wonk- but you have to be able to let go of the old ones that were killed with the A's. Mourn them, grieve them and make new BIGGER dreams. This time you can make it - as you will have learned so much through your struggles...and you can make a GOOD future! It will take time, patience, strength - but in the end - things will be better than they ever were - as you will have learned to communicate, learned to be patient, learned to accept eachother...learned how to deal with disappointment and rejection.

This isn't my problem, exactly. My issue all along with SF is that I never felt she truly wanted me in that manner. It was another chore. Certainly, my desperation for SF contributed to her feeling this way. But, it is a stab in the heart to realize that the first things she did with me once we were intimate after her A was beginning to end where the very things she did with him. What, was she comparison shopping?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Sorry. That wasn't a nice thing to say about Mrs. Wonk. Just venting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />




Sounds familiar. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

You are right about focusing on the future. I do try. I try every day to psych myself for another day and to try and make some progress. I do know it will take time. I do know that there will be ups and downs.

Part of the problem is while Mrs. Wonk is very remorseful, I just don't know whether I can trust her yet. I don't believe she will run back to OM or find another. Not really worried about that at all. It's more about radical honesty. I will answer any of her questions, and she says that she will for me, too. And, she has for the most part. I still get the sense, however, that she is holding some stuff back. Like she's afraid that too many details will send me packing. I can understand the fear, but it almost feels like I am being manipulated to a point. Just tell me the truth - so I know I can trust you - and let me decide whether the images or details are too much for me to put up with. Stop trying to make it seem not so bad. Geez. I am not stupid. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Some of this is just because of our history together rather than the affair. I don't think Mrs. Wonk is used to me putting my foot down and she is somehow trying to manage that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

As a fellow co-dependent, doesn't this affect you more? I know that for me, I put so much of myself into my life with Mrs. Wonk that in some ways, her A really killed me. While I have to learn to love Mrs. Wonk all over again, I have also had to learn that I am an individual and the world doesn't revolve around the Mrs. While it is a good thing to learn this, it sure adds to the whole mess. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />



True, Dorry, true. I guess this is the point I am still working through. I was sitting here thinking about what my dreams were. It wasn't committment, per se, but safety. Mrs. Wonk and the marriage was my coccoon. Work getting me down? Doesn't matter cuz I could look forward to going home to my loving wife. I could not have a friend in the world because I had Mrs. Wonk. Mrs. Wonk let me down...and is still figuring out why. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sprint had the same problem - Sex had become so non exsitant and when we did have it - it sucked because we were so stuck in old habits - and stuck in that - if you wont do it for me, I wont do ti for you - and then - I have an affair...and in his mind - it's - you'd do it for him.

In my case - it wasn't comparison shopping at all. For me personal - emotional intamcy is my foreplay...Sprint and I were lacking that in any shape or form - so I was never turned on. And the only time he showed affection the way I needed it was when he wanted sex...so I started rejecting him. It became habit and was horrible.

When we first started communicating early in recovery, when we started playing and he started being affectionate and giving me emotional intimacy - I began to let loose in the bedroom - he loved it and hated it all at the same time - figure this change came because of OM. That he brought out the wilder side in me. Which is so far from the case. OM was given SF because he gave me Emotional Intamacy - and he didn't give me EI if he wasn't getting SF talk or SF itself.

Sprint now knows that way the cycle works - if he is giving me emotional intamcy and affection I turn into his sex goddess and it has nothing to do with the A's - it's all about me and him hehehehe.




Well some wise MBer and my mom once told me - trust is a choice. During the time of Sprints A -I had people telling me he was lying, etc and in my heart I knew he was - but I CHOSE to trust him and give him the benefit of the doubt - even if he was lying. I was obviously wrong to, but I made the same choice again in recovery - to trust. Sometimes I have a bad day, and I check up on him - look at his email - but with his permission of course. But 4 weeks later I am rarely doing that.

I too hid alot of the details for weeks from Sprint - I was terrified of his reactions...and once you spit out a fib about one detail you worry about the concequences to spitting out that fib and it makes the anxiety even worse. Once it's all out- you breath a sigh of relief....it took 3 weeks of talking almost every day for me to finally get every detail out.

I told Sprint that it was PA once...then it was PA once with lots of webcam, then it was PA twice with condoms, then it was PA twice without protection, then it was PA twice with a day of kissing before that - which was the final truth...Poor guy - he was so mad each time a new truth came. Took him awhile to trust me. But he tried to trust me right off the bat once the whole truth was out.

I know Sprint reacted poorly...but got his grips real quick - and I was impressed -i didn't think he would react as well as he did - I thought I would be punished, yelled at, degrated...and I wasn't. (well 6 months later I was...but that's another story of poor healing on our part <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

She needs to be honest with you yes, but keep in mind - she isn't manipulating you probably - I wasn't manipulating Sprint - I just thought I could protect him from the truth, not realizing the truth could set him free. Backwards logic - but logic of a recovering WS though...

Sprint -- <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You are right about the cycle. I have always known that. I just let years of resentment eventually erode my desire to provide her with EI.



Well, this is a better way of saying how I feel. I do trust her in a lot of ways. It is a decision I want to make and keep making. But you are right. The truth will set you free because you can feel it in your heart. Mrs. Wonk is trying to protect recovery, I realize that. However, recovery will be more likely if she is honest.

Well, sit down and say to her - thank you for sharing what you have shared, but I get this feeling you are holding back...I know you may be trying to protect me, but this feeling of it not all making sense is hurting me more. I know that it may hurt me, and I may be angry - but once I have it all I can begin to put this behind us and heal and focus on our future.

Then she feels safe too and perhaps will tell you more? Or maybe she has told you it all, but she can clarify to see if its something she has said that doesn't make sense.

I have said this - just not with the eloquence that you bring to it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I'll give it a go again (when I am ready for more "fun" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />)

lol - give it a go until you are satisfied with the answers..but also be aware of your own sabatoge too. A cycle of obessing works when you hurt surfaces, you ask her questions as you feel you need new details, she doesn't answer them the way you feel you need them to be or are satisfied with the answers, ou get angry, then depressed and new hurt cycles and you start all over again.

If you really feel there is stuff being held back, then ask when you know it isn't just you and the normal obsession cycle. You will get stuck otherwise. Make sure the questions are answerable. Asking questions like how could you do this to me, and why Him? Those you will never get good answers too as she may not know either.

But answers in reply to details, etc...those are good ones to work with.

There is no answer in the world that could come close to explaining this one!!

I will admit that he's probably not that bad of a guy. Just like myself and countless other people on this board, he got himself into a situation that he shouldn't have and probably didn't realize what was going on until it was too late. But man, did the ugly mirror fall on this guy and break!! (Oh, that felt gooooooooooood. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)



That's what I am trying to do. Mrs. Wonk is afraid that the images will make things worse. But, the images are there no matter what. I'd rather have an image there because I know it happened rather than be thinking something happened and it didn't. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

LOL wonk,

My OM was not attractive to me at all (apologies to his wife who thinks he is the hottest thing) But not my type - small but well built and scrawny in a way, odd smile, yellow teeth...dressed in pants way too tight and tight white tank tops.....while my H on the other hand is tall, broad, loosing a few pounds and looking mighty fine...he is strong, has a great smile and is very good looking. Dresses well...my OM was a womanizer too - I was something like his 6th affair on his wife in 7 years, not counting the wife swapping he participated in early in his marriage (puke). I wasn't looking for a future with him...he was my drug.

So tell Mrs. Wonk that you just told me - that if you had a real image instead of an imaginary image that it would be easier for you to blot out - would it really be though?

Wanted to add that I wish OW was ugly...she was a drop dead older single mom who competed in a sport that helped her have quite a chiseled body...H was definately adding looks when he was looking for someone to move on with...I wish I could say I was prettier than her. I am definately attractive and pretty - but have 20lbs to loose and am no where near what she appeared to me.

H reassures me though - not by saying she was less attractive, but by reasuring me on what is attractive about me and why he loves me - with no comparsons to her <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, by your description, she may need counseling herself! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



The images are there, already. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I have pictures in my mind of what they did, so if she tells me that yes, that was something that occurred, then ok. If it wasn't, then I can stop thinking about it.

Yes, for me, OW was quite attractive, too. I wasn't out shopping for looks when I got involved with her though. I just wanted to know that somebody out there could love me. Remember, I was deeply depressed about Mrs. Wonk's A and needed to feel loved.

For most men, they love their wives warts and all. Most men that I know realize that their wives have flaws yet their wife is the most beautiful person to them. That is what counts. That is what I always told Mrs. Wonk whenever she dwelled on her perceived imperfections.

Wonk,

Just an OT question - but from what we talk about I realize right now you are trying to deal with your wife's A. But being that you are in a similar sitch to mine where both parties had an A, I am wondering what you have discovered about your own A? Have you had a chance to look at your own A - or are you still trying to deal with her A?

Were your A's close together? Or far apart like Sprint and mine - his took place about 6-7 months post my d-day...I wonder because we don't really talk about Sprints A - nor do we talk about mine anymore. We both agree that the past is the past, and I talk about my feelings on here or with a select group of people instead of hurting Sprint with my anger.

I often wonder if he is looking at what he did, or if he still simply feels his A was only a result of my A...I know when we did talk about it - he was feeling that it wasn't...that he realizes it was his choice and he was just trying to move on and forget about me and close that part of his life - hense the seperation that took place while it was still an EA. I often wonder if he will do the soul searching that I did....

My A started right as Mrs. Wonk was starting to see the light. Then, we played this game for a few months where I couldn't let OW go because she couldn't let OM go. And, she couldn't let OM go because I couldn't let OW go. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I have looked at my A and have been since it started. I realized from the day it started what was going on. I was just to dumb to do anything to stop it before it got started. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I knew that my affair was because I had failed to stand up for myself. I knew that my affair was because failing to stand up for myself had left me significantly depressed and in need of comfort. I knew that OW gave me that comfort and love that I needed. I also realize what needs OW was meeting that had not been met in the marriage for years, too. But, I have also looked at the pain I have caused Mrs. Wonk and so much wish I had done things differently. No, I understand both affairs quite well - probably much better than Mrs. Wonk does or thinks that I do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I have done a lot of self-reflection regarding both affairs. I'm sure that Sprint has, too. Ever read "Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus"? Well, if Sprint is anything like me, he thinks a lot - just not out loud. I may not say anything to Mrs. Wonk for days regarding the affairs, but yes, I think about BOTH situations and what they mean ALL of the time.

Because both Mrs. Wonk and I strayed, I think that it has made things easier and harder. Easier in that we both understand what happens during that period of time. Harder in that it is difficult to deal with two affairs at the same time, especially since they were so close together.

I think that the focus, for me, is on Mrs. Wonk because the full details have only recently come out. I only had my last d-day two months ago so the pain is fresh again. She discovered my A and many of the details about five months ago. So, she's a little bit farther along in her own recovery than I am. Plus, I have just started with a real good IC and so I am focusing real hard on everything - in ways I have yet to. Coming onto this board, understanding everything, is one way for me to understand and move past the pain.

Make any sense? I'll elaborate if you need me to... but probably not until Monday. OK?

Hope you and Sprint have a nice weekend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It's something I am learning to accept about Sprint - just because he isn't talking, doesn't mean he isn't thinking...it's what I wrote about learning his language, and accepting he doesn't think or do things like I do - learning to relinquish control of anyone's life but mine...but sometimes I would like to know he is thinking about it...even though I know he is based on things he says...it would reassure me to know? But I also accept I may never know, and that doesn't change my goal <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Have a great weekend Wonk - and good for you with the IC - I hope it helps you put some of the pain behind you

remorse.

Now, discuss. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />