krushit,

If he did have a cell phone, he wouldn't have the bills delivered to him at home, he would send them to his work. I have also wondered if he has a P.O. box because one time we met a friends girlfriend (who was acting very strange and stairing at him all night) and she works at a postal store, he made a joke about oh ya, "that's where I get all my mail" and she got a really weird look on her face. My imagination, I don't know. He got Really mad at me when I asked him about it.

Believer,

unfortunately, that is what I keep thinking also.


LowOrbit,

I unquestionably agree, I do believe that is how he feels. I believe that is how he has always felt.


As far as a recorder, I don't know if I could do that. I doubt myself so much because he is so convincing most of the time. I just don't think I could 'bug' his truck. As far as his office goes, he never lets me go there, I haven't even seen his new one.

I want to believe that I have shown him he can trust me enough to tell me anything. I understand who he is and I love him faults and all. I would stand by him no matter what, except if he is going to lie to me, that is the ONLY thing that I can't take. I just can't bear being lied to.


-SS

1st - based on everything you've written, I would think that an affair is likely the case of the way he's been acting.

That being said, though... how do you know it isn't physical? Has he had a checkup? Really, I don't think this is the problem, but I just wanted to make it clear that having problems with SF can sometimes be the only symptom of a larger physical problem.

As far as finding out about the cell phone - short of finding the phone itself or finding a bill, no, no real way to find out if he has one. And if he has a prepaid, there won't even be a bill. It isn't the fault of the technology, of course, cell phones can be great things to have, but they are also great affair enablers.

As far as signs of an affair at work... not sure, but I'll give you the ones that I now can see should have been huge warning flags to me. Some are just signs of an affair in general.

1. He changed the billing address for his credit cards and cell phone (pretty much anything that was in his name only) to his work address. He had a habit of paying things late, missing payments, etc. He claimed the change was to keep the companies from continually calling, that they wouldn't bug him at his workplace because it was obvious it wasn't a residence.

2. Having such money problems in the first place. He was always running short on money. We had kept all our money basically separate - I paid the mortgage and home-related bills, and he gave me money towards them. The amount he gave me was fairly small (I made more money than he did, and over the years, as both our salaries increased, the amount he gave me never did.) I really should have questioned where all the money was going that, even with how little he was giving me, he was constantly running out of money, asking if he could give me the money next pay period, etc. If you want to play, you have to pay - affairs are expensive.

3. I started having trouble getting ahold of him at work. He had quit answering the phone, and it always went to voice mail.... at least, that's what he claimed. He said he was getting a lot of creditor calls at work, and so he wasn't answering the phone anymore. But even if I left a message, it would take a long time for him to call back, and frequently he would claim he never got the message, that the voice mail must have messed up again.

4. The fact that he got a cell phone at all. When I first got mine, he was very disparaging of them. He had no interest in getting one. About two years later, this changed, and he suddenly felt having one was an absolute necessity. When I suggested finding a family plan, to see if it wouldn't be a little cheaper, he managed to find all kinds of reasons not to do so.

5. Business trips. When we first got married, my now-XH had to go TDY (government-ese for business trip) around once every 3 months or so. Then, for a number of years, he didn't have any at all. But all of a sudden, he was having to take them at least once a month, sometimes more frequently. And they were almost exclusively on weekends - his claim was that the military (he's civilian for Dept. of Navy) had started doing a lot of weekend trials on the ships, and that during the trials, he was out of phone (even cell) contact. There were a lot of things that he claimed about his work environment like this that seemed strange to me, but he claimed that was the way it worked at his place. I work for the government too, and know that sometimes places put some really weird policy in place, so there was just enough truth in there to make it at least somewhat believable. He claimed the reason he was getting sent out again, after so many years where he didn't have to go, was that after 9/11 a lot more new ships were being commissioned, and a lot of the old ones were being refitted and re-calibrated.

6. His best friend suddenly started having "phone issues." What I mean by that is that I started hearing how this friend of his was having problems with crank calls, and so he'd gotten a new number that was unlisted. When he finally gave me the new number, no one ever answered it. He claimed that was because they were screening calls, and I should just leave a message. When I did that, no one ever called back. He claimed that the number he'd given me was a line they didn't use much, and they forgot to check the voice mail on it a lot. But he never managed to give me a better number. This was a friend that lived about an hour away, and XH started going over there more often, or so he told me. Eventually, that's where he was claiming he was staying while we were separated but going to MC (he was really living with OW.) It became impossible for me to reach this friend on the phone. I believe the friend didn't want to rat out XH and didn't want to lie to me, so the family just quit taking calls from me.

7. He started buying clothes. Again, that's what he claimed anyway - that he needed some new work shirts, and he had gone to get them. I had bought every work shirt he wore since the time we got married. He absolutely hated clothes shopping, and would wear clothes and his only pair of shoes until they were literally falling apart and could not be worn anymore, because he hated clothes shopping and hated spending money on clothes even more than shopping for them.

8. We started getting a lot of hangup calls. They went to practically zero the day he walked out to go live with OW.

9. He started getting home really late from work all the time. Blamed it on traffic (he had to navigate the D.C. beltway, so it was somewhat believable, but if I had paid attention, the backups started taking a lot longer to get through. In conjunction with that, he started calling a lot more frequently to tell me to go ahead and eat without him, that things had gotten backed up, and he would just grab something when he got home, if he even felt like eating by then. And frequently, he didn't feel like eating when he got home. He blamed it on the frustration of having to sit through traffic.

Now I will say, though he claimed that OW was someone he met at work when he first told me about the affair, she wasn't. He had met her through on-line personals. But based on things I found out once I decided to really start looking at what was going on, I believe he was leaving work a lot to see her. He didn't have much leave, even though we hardly ever took vacations together, and he really wasn't taking off sick - at least, not as far as I knew. I think he used up every bit of annual and sick leave as he earned it taking off time to see her. I also think he was just leaving work in the middle of the day a lot even when he didn't have leave.

So, even though this affair wasn't at work, it was conducted a LOT during work time. But really, I don't think the signs are much different.

Spinning,

""As far as his office goes, he never lets me go there, I haven't even seen his new one.""

So you have never stopped by and taken him to lunch? What do you mean "he never lets you go there"? This seems very odd to me.

Is he with the CIA?? FBI?? Top Secret stuff going on??

Don't you find it strange?

What other stuff does he not "let" you do?

k

BTW - on-line accounts that he supposedly knows nothing about suddenly disappearing right after you ask him about them..... big sign, to me.

OTOH - you mentioned .mac accounts. Do you use a Mac at home? If so, e-mail me at [email]kaycee1616@hotmail.com.[/email] I may be able to help you out a little.


Edited to fix the e-mail address. Sheesh!!!! I can't believe I put hotbot instead of hotmail. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Oh, and I don't check that e-mail account often, so if you do e-mail me, let me know.

osxgirl,

I don't know what to say. To much of that sounds familliar.
ALL of it actually.

I just don't understand any of this. I just want for both of us to be happy. If he wants someone else I would want him to be with them.

OH MY GOD!!!! I don't know what to do.

I have asked on several occasions and he always says no. He tells me he eats 'cup of noodles' out of the vending machiene every day. There was ONE time (in almost 6 years) when I was working right by him that I talked him into it (after asking for over a month) and he brought me into his office, My picture was stashed behind some files on his desk. That was about 2 1/2 years ago.

osxgirl, sent.

-SS

SS -

Well, first of all, it's seldom about wanting someone else - at least, not about wanting them INSTEAD of the marriage.

Affairs are supremely selfish acts. If it were truly that he was in love with someone else and wanted them, he would do the right thing - separate from you, get divorced, and be free to be with the other person.

What he wants is to be able to fulfill needs that either you aren't meeting, or he THINKS you aren't meeting, or (as I suspect happens in a lot of cases) that he has quit letting you meet. He's bored, he finds someone who puts a little excitement in his life, and suddenly, there's no way in the world you could meet his needs anymore, because even if you do exactly what he wants, he may not see that you are trying to meet those needs.

That isn't in all cases - sometimes the BS can see the needs not being met, meet them, and that satisfies the WS. But most times, by the time it gets to an affair, the affair has become an addiction, and the BS can't possibly meet the needs of the WS, not as long as the affair is ongoing and the addiction is still in place.

I mean, how selfish is this - yeah, he wants someone else right now. But instead of being forthcoming about it, he lies and swears nothing is going on. Now if he really wants the marriage to be over and to be with someone else, what's the motivation for lying?

The answer is, there is none - not if he really is just wanting out, and wanting someone else instead. But what he wants is for you to meet the needs you are meeting that OW can't (taking care of the home and kids if there are any, maybe finanacial, maybe companionship & friendship...) And he wants to get these other needs met by OW.

Maybe he recognizes that OW is not a good bet long-term, and he doesn't want to lose the marriage over it. Maybe he's just hedging his bets, and his WS mind is saying that he shouldn't do anything that might end the M, because he doesn't want to be alone if the A ends.

But how selfish is that too? You are supposed to sit there, not aware of anything going on, being faithful, being a wife, while he's off deciding what he wants. Wasting years of your life.

I understand what you're saying about "if he wants someone else," but it's a fallacy. If he just wanted someone else, divorce is way too easy to have to go through all the lying and such. If he just wanted someone else, he could just walk out and go to her.

If he is having an A, it's all about him. He has decided that you don't even have the right to have all of the facts about things that could have major impact on your life.

It's time to start finding out the truth on your own, so you are at least informed about what you are dealing with.

You are right. I am a little in shock right now. I guess I wasn't expecting for someone to restate almost exactly what has been going on.

Ok, so you believe this. Have you flat out asked him about it? Do you KNOW this? What would you be willing to do to help aleviate his feelings?

The key is to create hope and excitement about your future together. As long as he keeps seeing your marriage as a dead end, that's where it's going to end up.

You can't wait on him to come to you with this. YOU have to break the stalemate.

OK...The sky is not falling...

Many of us do, in fact, work in jobs that don't allow office access for non-employees. VERY common after 9/11. So, the fact that a spouse's office has not been seen is not an "odd" thing.

A spouse who has disconnected from his marriage may have little areas of "secrecy" like email accounts just to give themselves some sense of independence.

Spouses should ALWAYS keep their eyes open for potential signs of an affair...but the things you've described sound more like a withdrawn, resentful spouse.

Some might be surprised to find out that I actually became a much nicer guy to my wife after my A started. I wanted MORE SF with her, not less. I was happier than I'd ever been because the affair let me feel "free" and not trapped.

So, no, don't automatically assume an affair. Try to find out more about what's going on with him. Get him out of this "resentment shell".

Low

I know it sucks spying, but have you thought about installing a keylogger at home? Also tapping home phone is cheap and easy.

If this is not the case at your husband's office (high security) to me it is a huge red flag.

I would get over the worry or guilt about snooping real fast. Then I would be relentless in my information gathering. Of course, I would TRY to stay cool as a cucumber about it.

I understand what you are all saying about this possibly being things other than an A, but...

She said the list I put up was almost exactly what's going on with her H. My list has some really HUGE red flags on it.

I agree with trying to talk to him and get communication going. But if he is in an A, this is liable to cause more resentment, not lessen it. Which is ok, it shouldn't stop her from trying.

And no, LO, it doesn't surprise me that you got nicer. Mine actually did in a lot of ways too - when he was actually around that is. And as far as the SF... well, that can actually go either way. With mine, SF stopped cold. When I tried to talk to him about it, it was that I didn't initiate enough. When I started initiating, he was always tired, or busy, or not in the mood right then. I even got accused of not doing it "right". When he told me no, I was supposed to try harder he said. But I did, and he would get mad at me for it.

The key here is change. A drastic change in SF needs, or in the things a spouse wants to do in the way of SF, is another of the big red flags. Wanting it a lot more should be a flag as much as not wanting SF at all.

What she's describing is right out of the script for WSs.

No, security is not the issue. He is telling me all the time about how one of his co-workers W's is over there a lot. They do have to have key cards to get in the building, but they can have anyone they want come in.

Low Orbit,
I have done everything in my power, including talk to him about his feelings. He had a huge list of things he wanted me to change (which I have) the funny thing is, none of them had anything to do with feelings or emotion, they were all appearince based. I know that physical appeariance is a top EN of his so I fixed it. I know that the house is a top EN of his so I fixed that problem too ( I still am not perfect at it, but it looks nice).

The thing that scares me the most about what you said is that He HAS been nicer to me, so much more so that it seems REALLY fake. No more mental abuse and name calling, but he still refuses to talk about anything emotional. I have done EVERYTHING he has asked of me and he still feels that way. I told him that I am not just some burden to him and he said "says who".

Are you shure the sky isn't falling, I thought I felt something hit me???

-SS

Had to get this out somewhere:

He thinks I am so stupid!! I asked him several times this evening if he wanted me to fix him something to eat and he said no. At almost exactly 7o'clock he said he was going to the store to get more wine and something to eat. He comes back an HOUR later with just the wine. I said I thought you were going to get something to eat. He said he went for fast food. I asked where it was and he said he ate it there. He has NEVER eaten by himself in a fast food place in all the time we have been together. So I asked him (very politely) why he did that and he started flipping out on me and screaming at me. Saying things like your sycotic and crazy, you think I am cheating on you, and all sorts of stuff like that.

About an hour later when I couldn't take the yelling anymore and the blaming of me for the argument we were in, I decided to go to the store, and make another stop. I don't want to say how I know, in case he reads this somehow, but he was not at the fast food place. I am sooooo ready to just walk out, but what if my info is wrong??? I don't think so, but that very small chance and the fact that I love him so very much is destroying me.

SO LOST

-SS

**bump**
Could use some advice on what I should do now. I do feel a little crazy for doubting him. Everything else he does is perfect (job, kids, house). Part of me is telling me that I am just still hurt over what happened years ago, then I think about everything and dont know. I almost feel like maybe I AM crazy!?!?

-SS