I received WW's settlement proposal this morning. Needless to say, I will not be accepting it. Pretty ridiculous in my eyes. She wants me to take on a disproportionate amount of our debt. She wants half the equity in the house. Those are the big sticking points and there is some other small stuff. I dont think it is right that I reward her for her behavior. That being said, we can go ahead and fight this out with our attorneys and we will just feed the legal machine and use up all of our assets and the debt will still be there.
My attorney, my pastor, and several of my friends have urged me to have a sit down with WW to discuss all this. I told them that I would do that when I felt God was leading me to do it.
So, what I am considering at this point is proposing to my WW that we have two different discussions. The first discussion I would want centered on why I feel our M deserves another chance. An honest attempt based upon MB principles with total transparency, no contact with OM, radical honesty, meeting of each other's EN's, and marital counseling with our pastor. This all to be done within a time frame that includes an allowance for withdrawal from the A. If after that, either of us is unhappy, we agree in advance to split 50/50. If there is any infidelity in the M by either of us during this time, then the offender basically walks away with the clothes on their back.
If the hold on WW is so strong that she will not agree to this, then I will counter propose to her a settlement that will allow her to get on with her life, and for me to get on with mine that doesnt financially penalize me for her decision. If she doesnt agree to that, we will just feed the legal machine until neither of us has anything left.
I would like everyone's input on this. I am not going to do anything soon on this. I will spend at least this weekend in prayer about it and possibly longer.


"you gotta have a good imagination,
if you are gonna live a life of hope.
you gotta drive that Ford like a stallion,
and wear your heart just like a gun."
Jack Ingram

Maybe I need to move this to the D/D'ing boards?

I guess my question to you is -
Why waste your time with the discussion?
Sorry to be so blunt, but why would your WW agree to this?
Has she shown any interest in working on the M?
Seems to me that right now she is talking about D, and asking for half of everything (except the debt) anyway. Why would she agree to put aside the D, and work on the M, knowing that if she "slips" with OM that she will lose everything?

I think you are trying to reason with someone who is currently unreasonable.

Perhaps I have missed something here, since I am not familiar with your story, but unless your WW is actually coming to you and asking to work on the M then why would she accept any conditions? This sort of deal would be a great idea if she was asking you to take her back. Then you could say "I will take you back, but only subject to the above restrictions."

We all would agree that Gods will for your life would be to restore your M. Jesus would desire that your WW would seek reconciliation. But right now I suspect your WW has a million justifications that she would throw at you, such as "this is Gods will for my life" or "I think I married you too soon, I think God intended for me to wait for this OM and now I need to make things right" or, the ever popular "God would want me to be happy"
All of these responses are crap, and none of them can be backed by scripture. But that doesn't convince a fog bound WS.

Keep praying.
Keep reading.

Dude, I do not want to be tough on you but you need to get back to reality. First, your little agreement about staying together does not need to be mentioned. It is not legal and it is not enforceable. She can agree and still take her part regardless on what you agree on. FORGET that idea now!!!

As to whether to talk about staying together, that is your decision and only you know how you feel and what you want. Set your boundaries and either she accepts them or walks.

As to the D, stand firm and do not negotiate like a little child. She did you wrong and she does not deserve to profit from her infidelity. The judge can apportion the marital property and debt based on some grounds of marital fault in some states. I do not know about Texas. HOLD FIRM on what you want and haul her [censored] into court if she does not agree. She will give in before court because she will not want to get embarassed in open court.

I am all for family and religion but do not turn into a pansy and justify it under those colors. You hold all the cards and you dictate the terms. Remember that and do not destroy your life for what might be a pipe dream. Good luck!!!

WOF,
I guess the reason that I would be willing to take the risk of wasting my time is that I would want WW to know exactly what she was rejecting. Why do I want that? I dunno.....I guess closure for me. I want her to know that I have stood for this M right to the end. I have to know that I have done that.
Bob,
Texas is a No Fault state. If she wants a D, she can have one. The judge can do whatever he wants. I can rattle the saber, I can unleash the bulldog. I can make it real nasty. But I have to wonder if this might be a case where the loser gets nothing and the winner gets all that remains, whatever that is.
All that being said, I do still hold the cards and I havent waivered in my committment to the M, but I kinda feel like the old gunfighter.......how much more killin' do I wanna do? Will the spoils of the battle just represent another notch in the belt and not much more?
I do agree though......I think I will leave the scenario out about the what ifs of a failed attempt. No sense in planting those seeds.

"you gotta have a good imagination,
if you are gonna live a life of hope.
you gotta drive that Ford like a stallion,
and wear your heart just like a gun."
Jack Ingram

Was away from the puter for the weekend. Still seeking input on this from the sage mbers on this site.

nothing like a good old tent revival meeting to get your soul a thumping....
BROTHER LOVES SALVATION SHOW!!!!!!!!!!

Hot August night
And the leaves hanging down
And the grass on the ground smelling sweet
Move up the road
To the outside of town
And the sound of that good gospel beat
Sits a ragged tent
Where there ain't no trees
And that gospel group
Telling you and me

It's Love
Brother Love's Traveling Salvation Show
Pack up the babies
Grab the old ladies
Everyone goes
Everyone knows
Brother Love's show

Room gets suddenly still
And when you'd almost bet
You could hear yourself sweat, he walks in
Eyes black as coal
And when he lifts his face
Every ear in the place is on him

Starting soft and slow
Like a small earthquake
And when he lets go
Half the valley shakes

It's Love, Love
Brother Love's Traveling Salvation Show
Pack up the babies
Grab the old ladies
Everyone goes
Everyone knows
Brother Love's show

Sermon

Take my hand in yours
Walk with me this day
In my heart, I know
I will never stray
Halle, halle, halle, halle, halle, halle, halle


It's Love, Love
Brother Love's Traveling Salvation Show
Pack up the babies
Grab the old ladies
Everyone goes
Everyone knows
Brother Love's show
Amen

Ima thinkin about this...

here's the problem with the face to face in discussing saving your marriage....

words and faces and emotions betray us...and the best laid plans of how a conversation goes rarely comes to fruition...

and so what happens when in this encounter you don't get the "closure" which is illusive at best

It scares me that you believe that you can have a conversation centered on anything..it relys to much on a belief you can control her or what you all talk about...

what about an email or letter with your beleif in saving the marriage...

and THEN see if she would discuss the letter

ARK

Ark,
you really hit the nail on the head here. One of my fears about this, is how to deal with the various twists and turns that the interaction would likely entail. I have in my mind what I would have to say, but know that the responses might cause the conversation to twist and turn. The last thing I want to do is to appear needy and or weak, because I am not.
I am not looking to control her. While my goal is to express to her why I think reconciliation is the right thing to do, I am also prepared to let go of her. But I guess I dont want to let go of her, without at least making an attempt to help her understand how we reached this point. Maybe that is impossible? I dont know. I dont think it is possible for me to know unless I try. I just dont think it is normal for two people to be married for 9 years and then after going into plan B to be divorced without ever speaking to each other about what transpired. If you do that, how do you move on?
All that being said, I can see the positive to an email or a letter. The only fear I have about that though, is that I might not convey all I want to say as effectively as I could in person.
My pastor and my attorney think we should sit down and talk. I value and respect their opinions as well as you guys here on MBers.

well what do you think of the letter first....and see what kind of response it iniates from her....

Ark,
I wanna make sure I am understanding what you mean. Should this letter detail everything that I would want to convey to her.....or should it be a letter that would just basically outline what I would want to discuss with her?

I think you go for what you really have to say..and then wait for her response...an outline will just get her to agree to meet with you and then she will still have her own agenda...

I think you need to change you goal of getting closure...
to speaking your peace...(or writing it in this case) inspite of and regardless of her response...

that's the best we can all hope for isn't it...

ark

I know a little bit about Tx DV, but I'm still going thru it...Does your W work?

In TX, it is all community property...so all debt, assets, etc, get split 50/50...like it or not, that is how it is...

You can ASK for something else, but if it unreasonable, then it is up to the judge to decide. I dont think what your W is asking for is that unreasonable.

In my case, my H has offereed to pay all the debt an dgive me all the equity in the house. HOWEVER, he will not give me more on CS..but I am fighting that.

I wont comment on the other factors in your thread, but just wanted to chime in on your Dv. I really think you need to do some research and figure out what it is and what is fair...

it doesn't matter what she DID...TX is a not fault state. and they treat it as such. They dont even look at the reasons behind the divorce. It is sad, but true!

Ark,
I think speaking my peace is what I am looking to do. I think merely by saying what I have to say I get closure. Closure is not something she can give me. Its something I have to attain by speaking my peace. Once I have said what I have to say, I am done. The light bulb just went off in my head (scary thought I know). What about sending her an email telling her that I would like to have a discussion with her regarding our futures and asking if she would prefer to do it in person or by email?
Moving Forward,
I appreciate your input. One thing that you might not be aware of is the fact that the credit card debt that WW wants me to take 75% of, over 50% of that was accumulated on finishing her degree. So, I dont think it is reasonable at all. That is probably the biggest sticking point with me. The 50% equity in the house isnt that big of a deal. She does work and makes decent enough money. Not as much as I do, but she is also 12 years younger and where I am pretty close to maxed out on my earnings, her earnings curve points upward. Unless of course I unleash the bulldog and compromise her career. And then all that will go down the drain.

A few weeks ago I drove to the town where my WW currently lives. It was just to go out for lunch, a friendly type of thing. A few days earlier my wife had written a letter detailing her views of the problems in our marriage, that she was having an affair, and did not want to stay married any longer. When I drove to be with her that day I knew that it would probably be one of the last few times we would be hanging out together as we were to talk about our divorce and financial situation.

Ironically in that same week, my counselor had mentioned the importance of “saying your peace” before you do end things with your spouse. The reason is to give you closure and avoid carrying your grievances onward. After eating lunch with my wife I left, but quickly turned around as I realized that I did need to say “my peace”. For the next hour we talked, cried, held hands etc. It was important for me to let her know the pain she caused me and the emotions that I had gone through. It was a release for me that I needed to do for closure and most important for myself. I wasn’t trying to guilt her into anything, but I needed to let everything out in order for me to move forward.

I also believe that you should also have a chance to say what you need to say if things are coming to an end. My wife is stuck in a fog and is having an affair which she feels is justified based on problems in our marriage. Without taking blame for her own mistakes there is little I can do. I have left everything up to God and have done all I can to support her and be confident and outgoing around her and with my life. Don’t try to guilt her into anything, but say what you need to say for yourself. I knew at that time that what I was doing was for me and it was something that I needed to do.

Tim,
that pretty much is my motivation as well. To gain closure. I do want to ask you about the lunch thing. Did you guys meet in public in order to try and insure a tone of civility during the conversation? Thats something I have thought about. Do I ask WW to do this at our house, or in public?

In my situation we just arranged a lunch with the goal of talking about our finances. It was hard for either one of us to really talk about it though. We wound up just having a light conversation. I took her back to her apartment and started on my way home. However, I remembered what my counselor had said about me vocalizing to her about my frustrations. I promptly turned my car around, drove back to her place and told her there was something I had to say.

I then just let everything out. For the past few weeks everything had been centered on how she was feeling, her thoughts, etc., (total plan A), finally this was my chance to tell her how I felt. I told her that this experience will make me into a stronger person and that changes will take place that she may not ever have a chance to realize. I told her about my pain I felt that she had an affair, that I felt she ran away from the problems we had. The fact that everyday I have to walk down the same hallway that we used to walk down, look at the curtains that we both put up etc.

It felt good to vocalize my thoughts to her, of course it’s total lovebusting, but at this point I didn’t really care. My counselor explained to me that this was important for me to move forward and it is. It is better to vocalize to your WW about how you feel then carry it with you into your next relationship or stowing it away. You need to hear yourself say what you need to say.

I would probably recommend you not to do it in public just because it will be pretty emotional for both of you.